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Deerthug

Sportsmens Bill Clears Senate

38 posts in this topic


"Leave us the hell alone!" - Ted Nugent (2/4/13)

Proud member of the NRA

The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear?
The LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? (Psalm 27:1)

 

http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/jmasiakos/slideshow/Furry%20and%20Feathered%20Friends

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"Republicans had blocked the bill before the election, fearing that passage would boost the re-election prospects of the bill's Democratic sponsor, Montana Sen. Jon Tester."

That kind of nonsense is one of the reasons this country is doomed. Its all about them (politicians and their careers) , never about whats best for the rest of us, and BOTH parties are just as guilty as the other.

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I would never support this bill as written because of things it includes and other things it does not include. The worst part of it is target shooting and preventing the EPA from regulating lead ammo and fishing tackle. The following video may persuade some who oppose green ammo. I think the NRA should stick to protecting the Second Ammendment and stay out of hunting policy and conservation biology...

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Mike...so you are for green shot for all sports even Dove hunting?

Edited by Culvercreek hunt club

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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Mike...so you are for green shot for all sports even Dove hunting?

Yes for doves as well. Single projectiles like slugs and bullets dont concern me as much; but they do concern some people. For doves I use winchester Xpert loaded in one ounce of 7 shot. It retails for about $5.50 a box of 25.

I remember the first two boxes of steel I bought in the early 1980s for $25 EACH - big money back then. Screw in chokes were reserved for the richer and few hunters had them, they were not standard with the gun as today. Nobody (including the ammo manufacturers) really knew what they were doing with the new ammo and guns not designed for it....

I know a couple of old hunters who although they still hunt deer every year to this day and are politiclly connected in the world of hunting, have not used their old shotguns for well over 20 years, nor have they hunted small game for that long, with the exception of spring turkey with modern black guns... They still got boxes of steel ammo from the 1980s laying around in their gun rooms... On the same note, sometimes I go into the few remaining old fashioned bait & tackle / hunting supplies stores and in them I find some older hunters/owners with lots of connections & and even more opinions and they often have two or three boxes of those same shells I bought in 1980 something collecting dust and mold on their sales shelves....

Most of you on here are smarter than the average bear, so enough said...

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BOTH parties are just as guilty as the other.

Correct as a whole but narrowing down to the actual individuals would start a weeding out process since there are a couple good ones.

* * *

A sportsmens bill is not supposed to have involvement at the federal level.

The flow chart is:

The role of the federal government can be found in Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution (http://www.law.corne...ution/articlei). If a proposed law does not fall under here, then it is relegated to the 10th Amendment.

It is by not following the rule of law of this Republic, is at the heart of this nations precipice.

* * *

To understand the General Welfare clause some research is needing in reading the actual documentation of the Founding Fathers and what that clause means and consists of. Over the centuries that clause has been misinterpreted and therefore contributing to not adhering to the proper role of government.

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I remember a study the DU did way back...70's 80's. I was not a duck hunter then and pretty young so I don't recall the detials but they collected duck wings to test for lead contamination. I think they were doing it to oppose the regulation to go to steel. I don't recall them finding the contamination they are claiming here.


"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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There are about 500 studies showing lead to be a clear impact. Additionally the diagnosis of lead poisoning in dying or dead birds is straight foward. This video is not showing an isolated incident either, there are many documented cases. A few examples are 500 birds died from lead poisoning in a North Carolina refuge and 1,500 died of lead poisoning at Rice Lake in Illinios.

Mass die offs of birds do not enhance hunting or the public image of hunting and we should not support this bill because of the lead stipulation.

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There are about 500 studies showing lead to be a clear impact. Additionally the diagnosis of lead poisoning in dying or dead birds is straight foward. This video is not showing an isolated incident either, there are many documented cases. A few examples are 500 birds died from lead poisoning in a North Carolina refuge and 1,500 died of lead poisoning at Rice Lake in Illinios.

Mass die offs of birds do not enhance hunting or the public image of hunting and we should not support this bill because of the lead stipulation.

i dont believe thats the correct way to go about it. pushing the use of steel shot should start at home and in the businesses selling the ammo. i dont believe it should take an act of congress to tell us what shot we can use. i dont thnk this bill being passed should even have come about. ALL IMO.

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If the Toxic Substance Control Act (the same act gives regulatory authority to the EPA over lead in paint and in gasoline -- is that likewise erroneous, should we choose what paint & gas should contain as well)? is wrong because it tells us what ammo to use; then reconcile the basis for the law former Vice President (Dick Cheney) ,who was also the CEO of Haliburtin, crafted, an exemption to the clean water act, which gave his company carte-blanche to drill baby drill which was signed by the former President (Bush) just as fast as Cheney could write it? To prevent the EPA from regulating lead is the same thing as preventing them from regulating hydrofracking chemicals - it is pandering to a special interest group - this time instead of haliburton, the nra... This whole sportsmens heritage act may be little more than a backdoor softening measure for unregulated public land drilling in the near future... There is a lot more going on here that has nothing to do with hunters gaining anything, its for someone elses gain. Does the NRA have stock in energy companies as a lot of republican polititians do? Republicans only stand up for gun rights to have us in their pocket for what they want.

Edited by mike rossi

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I remember a study the DU did way back...70's 80's. I was not a duck hunter then and pretty young so I don't recall the detials but they collected duck wings to test for lead contamination. I think they were doing it to oppose the regulation to go to steel. I don't recall them finding the contamination they are claiming here.

I am not familair with this study, but I would like to comment on your statement "I think they were doing it to oppose the regulation to go to steel". Research is to be conducted without a political agenda and the researchers are to be objective and honest and that is policed by what is known as the peer-review process, which is described below.

In a nutshell studies are conducted as follows: Researchers make predictions or hypotheseses. Then they make "alternate predictions/hypotheses'. Then they set up experiments try to DISPROVE their own predictions, not the other way around as commonly believed. After splitting all the hairs with all the variables they submit a report to a panel of other scientists who then (again) try to find deficiencies with the report. After this, what is called "peer-review" process, the study is published in a science journal.

Luckily for society, researchers are weird. They are interested at getting to the truth and are not motivated by money. They often have more education than your doctor but make less money than your garbage collecter. Sure some of them are bought, but there is a system of checks and balances in science, including wildlife/fisheries science, which ensures faulty science will not be published in journals. Not all biologists are researchers, however both are scientists. It is overdue for hunters to put that into perspective and stop unconditionally believing old tales or old tale tellers - even when its the NRA... It will bite us twice as we continue to claim we are conservationists and that we make science-based decisions while we do just the opposite.

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The link above was the approval to debate the bill. I heard the bill was voted down by the senate. That's too bad. Other than the lead issue Mike is talking about I think it would have been a good thing overall.

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The FAA has recorded more than 10,000 bird strikes by aircraft for the last three years. 2012 looks to be on track to equal that number. Maybe we should ban planes?


If only Jack O'Connor had written about the .270's effectiveness on Zombies, he might be known today as a decent gun scribe, and that cartridge might enjoy more widespread use...

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So we have a bill that is overwhelmingly good for hunters and anglers, increases conservation spending, reduces the deficit by $5 million dollars, is overwhelmingly supported by hunting, fishing, and conservation groups as well as the NRA... and the Republicans block it. It shows you how much they support sportsman.

How much you want to bet that I would already have a bunch of emails from the NRA calling for us to string up the Democrats if they were the ones that blocked this.

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The link above was the approval to debate the bill. I heard the bill was voted down by the senate. That's too bad. Other than the lead issue Mike is talking about I think it would have been a good thing overall.

Sounds like its still "on the calender" but postponed - but I am not sure- I dont speak the same language as politicians.... I (think) what I am reading is the republicans are blocking this for budget reasons, and one democrat, Barbara Boxer from California, opposes it because of the lead provision.

Boxer's ammendment concerns the impact of lead ammo on people; which I told her office was not well documented; but that its impact on wildlife was well documented and wildlife impact was a better angle... The response I got was: Thank you, but you are not a California constituent, contact your senator in New York....

If you follow politicians (or try to) it becomes no wonder why things are so messed up!

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Does the NRA have stock in energy companies as a lot of republican polititians do? Republicans only stand up for gun rights to have us in their pocket for what they want.

Better check your statements Mike. There are plenty of Dems that share the same interests, and pull the same BS. You guys pointing fingers need to really take a look at things and point at everyone, not just your favorite scapegoats.

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Better check your statements Mike. There are plenty of Dems that share the same interests, and pull the same BS. You guys pointing fingers need to really take a look at things and point at everyone, not just your favorite scapegoats.

Yeah, especially in post number 10 because this legislation was sponsored and backed by the dems. I still like my analogy about the regulatory authority of the EPA though...

Edited by mike rossi

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Voting down this bill is definitely "playing politics" if I've ever seen it. If they can't pass something that has overwhelming support then how are they going to handle all of these other unpopular issues? We need to get rid of these career politicians and get people in who want to do whats right for the American people. But of course I'm a realist and know that would only happen in some fantasy land.

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This whole sportsmens heritage act may be little more than a backdoor softening measure for unregulated public land drilling in the near future... There is a lot more going on here that has nothing to do with hunters gaining anything, its for someone elses gain. Does the NRA have stock in energy companies as a lot of republican polititians do? Republicans only stand up for gun rights to have us in their pocket for what they want.

Actually Mike the Sportsman's Act is the Senate version, the Sportsman's Heritage Act was the House version. The Sportsman's Heritage Act would have been bad for sportsman which is why Tester drafted the Sportsman's Act after a lot of prodding by conservation groups. I don't believe the opening of public lands to additional gas and oil drilling is in the senate version. Neither is the opening of roadless areas to motorized vehicles. Both of which were opposed by sportsman.

Edited by d-bone20917

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Actually Mike this is the Sportsman's Act, not the Sportsman's Heritage Act. The Sportsman's Heritage Act would have been bad for sportsman which is why Tester proposed the Sportsman's Act after a lot of prodding by conservation groups.

Thanks for the correction.

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I am not familair with the budget act and really dont want to be. However the republicans killed this bill because they say it violated the budget act. Although the bill was sponsored by a Montana democrat, there were many republican cosponsors. Only one republican voted for it and only one democrat voted against it.

That democrat was Barbara Boxer from California who tried to ammend the part of the bill pertaining to the regulation of lead ammo and fishing tackle. I guess it pleases some sportsmen that opposition to lead had nothing to do with stopping this bill. That is faulty thinking and as a group sportsmen need to "walk our talk" about being conservationists and using science to guide our decisions.

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I can appreciate your concern on the lead issue and I give Boxer credit for breaking ranks and voting no based on that issue. However, all this bill does is allow the states to regulate the use of lead ammo vs the EPA. There will be no increase in the use of lead ammo or fishing tackle due to this bill, but most likely no reduction either.

The issue Sessions brought up regarding the budget act was due to the increase in price of the duck stamp from $10 to $25 to pay for the bill, which was overwhelming supported by Sportsman. Sessions raised the issue that the increased revenue generated by the duck stamp was a tax and needed to originate in the House. Obviously, this was a political ploy because the duck stamp is a fee paid only by those that choose to buy one. However, once this issue was raised a procedural vote is required to move forward which requires 60 votes. The Republicans voted together to ensure that wouldn't happen. They knew the NRA was going to score the senators on the Sportsman Act vote, but the procedural votes do not get scored.

This is politics at its worse and it makes me sick.

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