Hit List Buck #1

[NFA-ADK]

Hope to see pictures of you with him later this year, good luck, nice deer!

[LuckyPickle123]

 

I'm not going to argue with you but I just wanted to share.  This is the rifle buck my dad shot last year.  134 Gross.  He had a 19 inch spread, 10 inch G2s, and piles of mass with big bases.  I'm not sure if the picture your showing is quite that caliber.  I would show the standard picture but I'm a little weird with pictures being stolen, or finding out about hunting spots.  Sorry, nothing personal, just the way I am.  IMO that is a 250 4 wheeler for comparison

 

[sampotter]

Rare, yeah. Unheard of? Hardly. Ive personally seen 160+ 8 points in this state.

Btw, population isnt the problem in NY, its pressure, age and in most of the state, soil conditions.

 

Agreed on the age and pressure, but there's nothing wrong with the soil here in NY. There is more than enough agriculture too. I would add genetics. The Midwest has an entirely different genetic population. In fact, a mature 8 point where I go shed hunting in Iowa is pretty rare, most are 10s or better.

 

However, I would say the average mature NY buck is going to score in the 135-140 range. No matter how you slice it, a 140" 8 is a heck of a deer, and I have a soft spot for big old 8s!

[WNYBuckHunter]

Agreed on the age and pressure, but there's nothing wrong with the soil here in NY. There is more than enough agriculture too. I would add genetics. The Midwest has an entirely different genetic population. In fact, a mature 8 point where I go shed hunting in Iowa is pretty rare, most are 10s or better.

 

However, I would say the average mature NY buck is going to score in the 135-140 range. No matter how you slice it, a 140" 8 is a heck of a deer, and I have a soft spot for big old 8s!

 

Theres alot wrong with the soil in many parts of NY. You can look at soil and mineral maps, then look at where the majority of active agriculture is (AKA grain farms), then take into account where the majority of big bucks come out of, and you get the picture. The more minerals absorbed into the food source that the deer eats, the more of its genetic potential shines through.

 

I agree, the genetics may be different out there, but the sheer amount and quality of the food sources is better as well. For comparison, just look at the average mature buck on the farm I hunt vs the average mature buck less than 1/2 hour south, in an area that doesnt have quite as good of soil. Similar genetics, but the quality (mineral content, etc) and quantity of food makes all the difference in antler growth. Most mature bucks (4 years and older) that we see on our farms are not 8 points, they are 10 or more.

[beachpeaz]

Omg 140" 8s are not rare or unheard of. Many hit the ground no one even hears about. Just talked with a guy who shot 2 last season one bow 1 gun kill. One was low 40s other mid. Saw pics with date and we share mutual friends.

Guys think it's near impossible for an 8 to score that high. It happens people. ..

 

Thats one thing I love about this forum (or any forum).  When you type something, it becomes an all-inclusive statement.

 

140" 8 points ARE a rare beast in NYS.  This is a fact.  What I did not say (where people like to fill in the lines and ASSUME additional information that was never said), is anything to do with POTENTIAL.  NYS has tons of potential.  I won't get into that conversation because i have seen it every year on here and it gets debated heavily.  Let a deer grow and sure, go shoot a 140" + 8.  We have the genetics, the crops, the population, etc. 

 

Take a survey of ALL deer shot in NYS, under the CURRENT system, and let me know what percentage of those deer are 140" + and 8 points.  I will guarantee you with any amount of money you name, it is a very small percentage of the total deer taken.  They are rare (and by rare, i mean less than 1% of the total harvest).  we live in a state where people plow the first 1.5 year old 4 point that walks by.  That coupled with the fact that just by pure mathmatics, an 8 is harder to score high due to the lack of inches to score.

 

If you would like to have  conversation about a fantasy world, where this state managed the deer population better, and everyone was forced to shoot only 4.5 year old or older deer, cultivate non-breeding does, remove small genetic deer out of the heard, etc, etc.....then have at it.  My original point was based on reality.

Edited September 30, 2014 by beachpeaz

[WNYBuckHunter]

Thats one thing I love about this forum (or any forum).  When you type something, it becomes an all-inclusive statement.

 

140" 8 points ARE a rare beast in NYS.  This is a fact.  What I did not say (where people like to fill in the lines and ASSUME additional information that was never said), is anything to do with POTENTIAL.  NYS has tons of potential.  I won't get into that conversation because i have seen it every year on here and it gets debated heavily.  Let a deer grow and sure, go shoot a 140" + 8.  We have the genetics, the crops, the population, etc. 

 

Take a survey of ALL deer shot in NYS, under the CURRENT system, and let me know what percentage of those deer are 140" + and 8 points.  I will guarantee you with any amount of money you name, it is a very small percentage of the total deer taken.  They are rare (and by rare, i mean less than 1% of the total harvest).  we live in a state where people plow the first 1.5 year old 4 point that walks by.  That coupled with the fact that just by pure mathmatics, an 8 is harder to score high due to the lack of inches to score.

 

If you would like to have  conversation about a fantasy world, where this state managed the deer population better, and everyone was forced to shoot only 4.5 year old or older deer, cultivate non-breeding does, remove small genetic deer out of the heard, etc, etc.....then have at it.  My original point was based on reality.

 

You cant compare it like that. You would have to look at all of the mature bucks killed in NY and figure out the percentage that are 140+ 8 points. If you put 1 1/2, 2 1/2 and even most 3 1/2 year olds into the equation, youd skew the results. Those age classes of deer have little to no chance of reaching those dimensions.

 

Not sure what fantasy talk you are referring to. Genetic manipulation, culling, etc has not even come into the conversation.

[Geno C]

Thats one thing I love about this forum (or any forum). When you type something, it becomes an all-inclusive statement.

140" 8 points ARE a rare beast in NYS. This is a fact. What I did not say (where people like to fill in the lines and ASSUME additional information that was never said), is anything to do with POTENTIAL. NYS has tons of potential. I won't get into that conversation because i have seen it every year on here and it gets debated heavily. Let a deer grow and sure, go shoot a 140" + 8. We have the genetics, the crops, the population, etc.

Take a survey of ALL deer shot in NYS, under the CURRENT system, and let me know what percentage of those deer are 140" + and 8 points. I will guarantee you with any amount of money you name, it is a very small percentage of the total deer taken. They are rare (and by rare, i mean less than 1% of the total harvest). we live in a state where people plow the first 1.5 year old 4 point that walks by. That coupled with the fact that just by pure mathmatics, an 8 is harder to score high due to the lack of inches to score.

If you would like to have conversation about a fantasy world, where this state managed the deer population better, and everyone was forced to shoot only 4.5 year old or older deer, cultivate non-breeding does, remove small genetic deer out of the heard, etc, etc.....then have at it. My original point was based on reality.

Their not as "rare" as you think... If you said 150 -160" 8 points then yes I'd agree their tough to come by. There's many 140 8s killed each season. Just because it's not publicized where we all hear about it I think is where your putting an 8 point in the rare column? I've heard of a handful of people and saw pics of them in the past few months from last season.they all said why would I enter it? I never thought about that they said.

I have to laugh every time I hear someone make it sound like a 140" deer is something of a are unicorn. I mean cmon. Their out there and they do get shot... The way you make it sound is 1 or 2 guys a year shoot a 140" 8? Who cares about percentages! You don't have the resources to even validate that so come off it.

And that is my opinion. If you'd like to think otherwise then go for it.

[Geno C]

And next time you quote me make sure I was even talking about you. Guilty conscious or something???

[beachpeaz]

And next time you quote me make sure I was even talking about you. Guilty conscious or something???

 

Guilty conscience?  hardly.  I was responding directly to what you wrote (and several people before you).

 

You can argue facts all you want.  Again, with the "all-inclusive" statements.  140" deer 8's do get shot.  I never said they didn't.  I never even said that a 140" deer was big, or a "unicorn."  Speaking of putting words in peoples mouths.  Geez man.

 

You can argue all you want.  As a percentage of deer, the opportunity for an 8 point to be 140" plus, verse a 9, 10, 11, 12, etc, etc, etc. is WAY, WAY, WAY smaller.  It is very hard and very rare.  Fine, take your argument.  Only look at Mature deer that were shot.  Then take the percentage that were over 140", then determine how many of those were 8 points verse any other amount of points, and again, compare.  I gaurantee you that the percentage of 8's would be the smallest percentage in that group.

 

You don't want to talk facts........then there is no argument.  Opinions mean nothing if you want to remove facts from them.

[beachpeaz]

and, even though I quoted you, you and WNY have the same argument, so don't take it personal. 

[Geno C]

Guilty conscience? hardly. I was responding directly to what you wrote (and several people before you).

You can argue facts all you want. Again, with the "all-inclusive" statements. 140" deer 8's do get shot. I never said they didn't. I never even said that a 140" deer was big, or a "unicorn." Speaking of putting words in peoples mouths. Geez man.

You can argue all you want. As a percentage of deer, the opportunity for an 8 point to be 140" plus, verse a 9, 10, 11, 12, etc, etc, etc. is WAY, WAY, WAY smaller. It is very hard and very rare. Fine, take your argument. Only look at Mature deer that were shot. Then take the percentage that were over 140", then determine how many of those were 8 points verse any other amount of points, and again, compare. I gaurantee you that the percentage of 8's would be the smallest percentage in that group.

You don't want to talk facts........then there is no argument. Opinions mean nothing if you want to remove facts from them.

Your right I dont... because I can careless how many 140 8s there are, what their percentages are or anything else relevant to a 140 8 point. Seems hour looking for a debate/argument but you won't get it out of this guy.

I think it's comical actually I will maintain that. If I cared enough to open a box of chit chat regarding "140 8 point" I would... but just just don't care enough to do so. Sorry

[Geno C]

and, even though I quoted you, you and WNY have the same argument, so don't take it personal.

I try not to take much on here personal trust me lol

[beachpeaz]

well, finally we agree on something.  I dont' come on here to have a pissing contest.

 

In fact, I didn't start this one. I simply posted a picture for peoples enjoyment.  I didn't start a topic thread that had anythign to do with deer managment or statistics.  I wasn't the first one to make any comments of the sort. 

 

I could also care less.  If a 140" deer walks by, i'm not counting points, i am shooting.

 

good luck this season.

[sampotter]

Theres alot wrong with the soil in many parts of NY. You can look at soil and mineral maps, then look at where the majority of active agriculture is (AKA grain farms), then take into account where the majority of big bucks come out of, and you get the picture. The more minerals absorbed into the food source that the deer eats, the more of its genetic potential shines through.

 

I agree, the genetics may be different out there, but the sheer amount and quality of the food sources is better as well. For comparison, just look at the average mature buck on the farm I hunt vs the average mature buck less than 1/2 hour south, in an area that doesnt have quite as good of soil. Similar genetics, but the quality (mineral content, etc) and quantity of food makes all the difference in antler growth. Most mature bucks (4 years and older) that we see on our farms are not 8 points, they are 10 or more.

 

Soils and the amount of agriculture get a lot more credit for big bucks than is deserved. Animals have basic requirements for nutrients, and for sure a little extra can boost growth, but a lot extra is just excreted in the feces and urine. Most of NY does not have nutritional factors that are limiting the antler growth of bucks. Heck, my heaviest antlered buck is  a 145+ 8 out of the heart of the Adirondacks, arguably the worst soil in the whole state.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

  I gaurantee you that the percentage of 8's would be the smallest percentage in that group.

 

 

besides the elusive 140" spike.

[Geno C]

besides the elusive 140" spike.

What about 130" 14 points? Is that rare????

[beachpeaz]

besides the elusive 140" spike.

 

Single spike....IE:  unicorn (accoring to some)....lmao.

 

I would certainly hang that bad boy on my wall.

 

If it had 2, it would look too much like this one I have hanging on my wall:

 

[bubba]

I miss the days when size in a deer meant body size.  Plus i love how so many have to imitate the fools on tv and name the deer they see on a camera. Everyone wants to be Michael Waddell  Love it.  Is he big enough?  No wait his left g2 is a half inch shorter than his right he is no good.  Shoot the deer eat the meat simple as that.

[beachpeaz]

I miss the days when size in a deer meant body size.  Plus i love how so many have to imitate the fools on tv and name the deer they see on a camera. Everyone wants to be Michael Waddell  Love it.  Is he big enough?  No wait his left g2 is a half inch shorter than his right he is no good.  Shoot the deer eat the meat simple as that.

 

I don't dissagree.  I posted a similar thread last year I believe.  Hunting shows, while I appreciate they have brought hunting into the spotlight and created very good publicity for our sport, have also altered people reality of hunting! 

 

Again, like i posted earlier in this thread, I don't want to even start that debate (like deer genetics in NYS), because it turns into a whole other level of debate.  It is very sad that the younger generation is growing up with this idea that 200" deer are running everywhere, that a 140" deer is small, that points are all that matters, etc.

 

Enjoy the outdoors.  Shoot what you think is a trophy.  Don't worry about what other people think!  And most of all, have fun and pass the legecy onto the next generation.  Its the only way our sport will survive with the liberals running amuck.

[LuckyPickle123]

I miss the days when size in a deer meant body size.  Plus i love how so many have to imitate the fools on tv and name the deer they see on a camera. Everyone wants to be Michael Waddell  Love it.  Is he big enough?  No wait his left g2 is a half inch shorter than his right he is no good.  Shoot the deer eat the meat simple as that.

 

Not exactly the case for all hunters out there..  I like naming the deer I hunt as a way to distinguish between them all.  Plus, if you have enough land to do deer management, you almost develop a relationship with the deer you are hunting.  It allows you to target out one deer, and hunt him hard all season long.  Then if you are lucky enough to harvest that deer, it feels even sweeter knowing that you worked really hard and accomplished what you set out for.

 

I hunted a buck last year called "turkey foot." he was a big buck with 5 points on one side and 3 on the other that looked like a turkey foot.  Man I saw him all season long, piles of footage, and piles of trail cam pics.  I wasn't able to shoot him, but I went to bed dreaming about him a lot let me tell you.  I found myself sitting in the tree stand just daydreaming about that buck.

 

Yea I absolutely love the meat, and I also really love to hang trophy bucks on the wall.  Were all different.