1878 replies to this topic

[capt_terry]

Although I'm in favor of it, I don't feel strongly about it. As a land owner I'd like to see some bucks grow older and develope nice racks. But I don't think the most important thing in determining a trophy is the size of a pair of antlers.

[Doc]

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Although I'm in favor of it, I don't feel strongly about it. As a land owner I'd like to see some bucks grow older and develope nice racks. But I don't think the most important thing in determining a trophy is the size of a pair of antlers.

I think that is the way I feel about the whole subject. AR is just not a real heavy-hitter on my list of priorities. I really don't think that is even close to being one of the biggest deer management problems that we have in NYS. Maybe when we get some of the basic deer management techniques working well, I might get a little more concerned about such secondary issues. Until then, it simply is not worth the hassle that it is causing.

Doc

[Fairgame]

Until Ars, and lottery dmps came into our area there wasnt any type of deer management program.  So what are we waiting for to start working.  It hasnt hurt the hunting in our area it has only made it better.  More deer in the woods and more bucks and also what is not important to some but it is to others "bigger racks".  I have had an excellent hunting season for the past 3 years that these ARs and Lottery DMPs in place.  Not because of shooting a big buck, cause that doesnt happen every year, but because of the amount of deer, the better buck to doe ratio from what I seen.  Its alot more exciting in the woods lately.  Everyone probably has their doughts before programs like this start, me being one of them.  Now that they are in place I would hate for them to take it away.  These are the only things in place right now to make a difference.  It is the easiest way for everyone to determine whether a buck is legal or not.  I'm not saying every area should have them, cause every area is different. But where hunters in certain areas want it and it wouldnt hurt to have it, majority should win. Isnt that the way it should be?  Reguardless if a small percentage of hunters show up, that small percentage represents everone else.  Just like voting for the Pres
Not everyone votes but a president is still picked after all votes are collected.

[Doc]

Here's something I have always wondered about. We do not have AR, but our deer population has been coming up considerably for the last few years. As expected, with the over-all herd up, the buck numbers are also correspondingly up. Also as you might expect, with the buck numbers rising, a certain percentage of them are growing to an older age. Consequently, we are seeing some better racks than we did a few years back when the over-all deer population had been hacked down by excessive permit numbers.

I'm thinking that if AR had been implemented a few years back, I would be explaining all this with comments about how AR is working. However, the fact is that it is simply normal cyclical factors of habitat, weather, and harvest that is working its normal expected magic. It's the sort of thing that I have seen cycling back and forth over the decades. There are so many things that impact deer herds.

I'm not saying that is what is going on in the areas where AR has been implemented, but I'm just saying that everything is not always what it appears when you are going simply by general observations over a couple of years.

Doc

[deerinsight]

  Hello I am new to the sight but this is a good topic that has been brought up.
I believe the antler restrictions are a great way to keep young 1 and 2 year old bucks from being taking out. This is a great way to manage the heard.
One thing though about antler restrictions and I have not yet read on the restrictions for your area but if you can not take out a 2 year old spike you will always have that characteristic in your area. So in any case observe your deer as much as you can keep a log of deer seen and deer harvested also for those strictly meet hunters shoot does, does, does just be sure it’s a doe preferably an older doe they eat just as good. If the buck to doe racial is not in place you may have Dominate buck 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 yrs olds you will never see.
Food plots are an excellent way to nourish your deer it is like taking a grocery store and making it a supermarkets great nutation and more to chose from.
Pic attached This was year of taking out the eight pointers wich is what also can happen with restrictions. but all of them scored fom 136" to 154" I have another one that a buddy of mine took out but I was ne=ot able to attach it sorry. The two showing are 145" and 136"

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[WNYBuckHunter]

Quote

  Hello I am new to the sight but this is a good topic that has been brought up.
I believe the antler restrictions are a great way to keep young 1 and 2 year old bucks from being taking out. This is a great way to manage the heard.
One thing though about antler restrictions and I have not yet read on the restrictions for your area but if you can not take out a 2 year old spike you will always have that characteristic in your area. So in any case observe your deer as much as you can keep a log of deer seen and deer harvested also for those strictly meet hunters shoot does, does, does just be sure it’s a doe preferably an older doe they eat just as good. If the buck to doe racial is not in place you may have Dominate buck 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 yrs olds you will never see.
Food plots are an excellent way to nourish your deer it is like taking a grocery store and making it a supermarkets great nutation and more to chose from.
Pic attached This was year of taking out the eight pointers wich is what also can happen with restrictions. but all of them scored fom 136" to 154" I have another one that a buddy of mine took out but I was ne=ot able to attach it sorry. The two showing are 145" and 136"

Uh, whats up with the Texas plate on the truck?

[deerinsight]

Don't worry I select hunt so I won't stick a arrow in all the deer when I come up in October. I own 70 ac. in Chautauqua county I hunt.

[burmjohn]

Honestly, what would be an effective alternative? I don't see any.  If you ask hunters to sit there and age a deer its not going to happen.  Yes, there may be a few older spikes running around, but is that the majority? I bet the majority that are being protected by the AR are the yearlings.  But hey what do I know

[deerinsight]

You are right about the AR protecting the yearlings. But people that want quality deer need to under stand that it takes years at leats three if not longer to obtain a structured heard. It just depends on Mother Nature and what we the land owner and hunter's do to help the proses. I am a true believer of managing deer and providing quality alternative food supply (food Plots).
One last thing on all this is Genetics with out it you can have a healthy head but you may never get that high score head gear. But like I tell my Boys a trophy is a mature buck.

[burmjohn]

Agreed, I'm not a trophy whore, trust me, I have none to speak of   But, I love seeing solid 6's and 8's anything more is a bonus. 

Regarding food plots, see my posts, I just had 2 acres cleared... two 1 acre plots that me, my father and brother will be working on over the next few years. I can't wait!

Regardless, if there was no AR then those area's would more then likely have a fair share of yearlings taken out.  I don't see how anyone would say NO to this, as its the only way to do this on a mass scale.   Yeah I know I'll get a lot of flack for this, but its the truth. 

Look at this poll, at a small scale, over 43% say yes, and 13% say lets give it a try and see what happens...And another 13% say they are not sure... Seems like most would like it or like to see what happens as a result of the AR.

[Fairgame]

Some people will say no for different reasons like not wanting a restriction put on their hunting, another is that some are scared they wont be able to shoot a deer for a year or two, another is that its not a good enough management tool.  All reasons are understandable.  This is not the best management tool but its the only one that has taken place in these 4 zones.  IMO given the chance it works from what I see.  A big thing also has been the lottery Dmps also that have given this progrom a boost in seeing more bucks.  More fawns protected that actually live to 1 and a half years old. 
I have always seen deer where I hunt, but before all this started it was mainly does and fawns and the occasional year and a half old buck.. It took a couple of years of not shooting a buck, but now the year and a half old bucks are all over and I do get to see some racks every year for the last three years. I'm not shooting 150inch bucks cause they are not as abundant as the younger deer, but the 100 inch deer now is a common sight.  Great accomplishment.  I thank the DEC for starting this program in my area.  It has made for some exciting hunting!!!

[Fairgame]

Here is something I just found.

http://www.hvqdma.co...ns-really-work/

[Doc]

I am just hoping that the DEC is using these experimental AR areas as proper laboratories, and are keeping adequate records to establish just what is working and what is not working. It's nice to have anecdotal observations, but nothing will ever replace actual gathered hard data. I am not just talking about data relative to buck numbers and age structure, but also data relative to how hunter participation has reacted. I make no predictions as to what such data might show, but I sure hope that the data is being collected and analysed. There's a lot more involved here than just arbitrarily slapping on some regulations as I have noted in past replies.

Doc

[WNYBuckHunter]

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Don't worry I select hunt so I won't stick a arrow in all the deer when I come up in October. I own 70 ac. in Chautauqua county I hunt.

Maybe you want to retract your photos and statements? Did you forget or just neglect to notice the Texas tag on the deer? I call BS on those pics and probably your whole story on here so far. >

[deerinsight]

  I was just showing pictures of the deer so ya’ll can see what can happen with restrictions in place. We took these deer out because we had too many eight pointers on the property. The restrictions in the area of Texas where my kids and I hunt are one buck 13” or better and one buck with one antler being unbranched. Some may ask how you can tell if the rack is 13” or better, well if the ears are fully inside the rack it is at least 13”. But we take it one step further and shoot only 4 ½ year old buck, scrub bucks and does.
I do have property in New York that I own. I strictly Bow hunt this property and my uncle and a couple others bow hunt and gun hunt the property. But I am strict on what is taking. They take does and the occasional what we call scrub bucks. We have done this on the property for four years and have seen great results this past year My Uncle who helps take care of the place Seen 2 tens and 1 twelve pointer we have also seen several nice young bucks 3 1/2 year old or younger. This year I have put in place an 8 point or better rule and still take does and scrub bucks this will help with the age structure.
  This is not to offend anyone but when I talk about deer management and deer hunting I don't speak BS.
    I am Obsessed with managing and hunting deer.
I hope this clears the confusing

[WNYBuckHunter]

Quote

  I was just showing pictures of the deer so ya’ll can see what can happen with restrictions in place. We took these deer out because we had too many eight pointers on the property. The restrictions in the area of Texas where my kids and I hunt are one buck 13” or better and one buck with one antler being unbranched. Some may ask how you can tell if the rack is 13” or better, well if the ears are fully inside the rack it is at least 13”. But we take it one step further and shoot only 4 ½ year old buck, scrub bucks and does.
I do have property in New York that I own. I strictly Bow hunt this property and my uncle and a couple others bow hunt and gun hunt the property. But I am strict on what is taking. They take does and the occasional what we call scrub bucks. We have done this on the property for four years and have seen great results this past year My Uncle who helps take care of the place Seen 2 tens and 1 twelve pointer we have also seen several nice young bucks 3 1/2 year old or younger. This year I have put in place an 8 point or better rule and still take does and scrub bucks this will help with the age structure.
  This is not to offend anyone but when I talk about deer management and deer hunting I don't speak BS.
    I am Obsessed with managing and hunting deer.
I hope this clears the confusing

You should have said that to begin with, because your posts alluded that the deer were taken in NY as a result of AR in your area.

[Larry]

I would like to hunt where a 120 to 150 class 8 or 9 point is a cull dosen't sound like QDM to me sounds more like trophy management or you are waching to much Lee & Tiffiny. no thanks

[deerinsight]

The result of 120 and 150 is because of QDM. But I am not saying this will be accomplished in all areas because it has to do with genetics also. We are not trophy hunter per say as you stated we are managing the area with respect to quality deer and that is what we have as a result. We may never see a 170 class in are area of Texas we hunt but the herd is healthy and that is are goal.
     Saying this I don't know yet how the area in New York (Region 9) will be for the big bucks, but I do know that since we started from 4 years ago the deer look a lot heather and have been 10 to 20 lbs heavier and the bucks that have been seen are showing great potential. My boys and I are not as some say trophy hunter we are management hunters as I have stated.
 
One Last thing we need to ask are self what is a trophy? To me a Trophy is a Mature deer. Not necessarily the inches of his head gear. It seams That I have been defending My self about QDM / AR since the get go I am just getting info out to ya’ll about what The AR / QDM program can bring to all of us in the Future. If you just want to shoot any deer well that is your right at this time But the Biologists, Land owners and Hunters  may see that QDM is a great tool to produce Healthy herds
  As for lee and Tiffany go I watch that just because Tiffany is fine.

[Larry]

  You said it when you said what is a trophy. Then what do you say to the person who says any deer is a trophy to them. Is there 4pt. any less a trophy then my 150 class 11pt. no its not any less a trophy and I shouldn’t and no one else should tell them it’s not a trophy; you and I don’t have that right. So should we force them to hunt are way with some kind of AR. There are so few of us left. There are trophies everywhere no matter what standard you use; you just have to work for it.

[deerinsight]

I said a trophy is a mature deer. 5 1/2 or older to be more specific and that is a trophy in my book as it takes a lot of scouting and thought to hunt a deer of this age unless we get lucky. If it is a four pointer (mature) then It should have been or it should be taken out If I seen a eleven pointer and had any doubt that it was less then a mature buck I still would not shoot it that is just the way I look at it. I believe in keeping the good genetics in a herd and taking out the more not so desired deer