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If it is..., it's the first I've ever seen here, or at least noticed and gotten a pic of and I'm determined to get better shots. Coming back from the fields photographing deer tonight when I found this guy at the pond. Now I have a legitimate reason to hide in the bushes there! (inside joke a few here will get) It was pretty dark when I left the fields so I had all my settings cranked pretty high allowing me to pull these off but they are cropped tight and pretty grainy. By the time I spotted this guy all I could really see was a silhouette in the sky and did the best I could to lift some detail out of them in post. So..... is it an osprey or another raptor I'm unfamiliar with? I've said it before and I'll say it again.... I' not very good with bird ID's, but I think that's what it is.. but I could be wrong, that's why I ask.

I agree that is a logical solution and would have been this time around. We have discussed ad nauseam why it makes no sense to use a smaller group hunting with less productive weapons to reduce population. Trust me, your idea won't happen because that would be a bad political move. Much easier to upset the smaller group of BHs than the much larger group of gun hunters. Politics 101 - if you need to upset a group, make it a small group or less vocal group. In fact, by opening an early gun season, the cheers of the gun only hunters will drown out any outcry by the BHs. I bet that this was all considered well in advance of the strategy employed. Plus, since most BHs are also gun hunters, the simple response is stop complaining, grab your gun and go hunt.

Frankly, as Phade was suggesting earlier, DEC has created a system to its benefit that puts the BHs in a catch 22. Either will kill and report more doe in the first two weeks allowing DEC to say "see our plan is working" and continuing it. Or, we don't kill and report more doe in the first 2 weeks allowing DEC to say "see BHs can't get it done" and we now need to go to more extreme measure by allowing guns or MLs in early season. No way for BHs to win under these circumstances. DEC has put themselves in a great position to do what they want in these "overpopulated" areas for the foreseeable future without risk of clear objective criticism. Couple that with undefined goals and DEC can justify whatever they choose with regard to altering bow seasons. Great political maneuvering but bad management if they want true results on reducing doe populations now.

Man! I am on fire today...I got so much done before 6:30 I made it to the Gym by 7:30 and worked out hard until 9:15...decided to go get tags and call hunting lands owner( our friend) ...he was going over to get tags as well. We meet at the town hall and then plan to meet at his place for a tour...Ha!.... as luck would have it he had car trouble and I happen to be there to drive him to his business and back to fix the car...get to the property and It is beyond beautiful...though on a steep side hill but with a road that runs the perimeter, Which we stopped and cleared debris. Then went back and got the chain saw and removed logs...while there I saw a doe with fawn and more buck rubs than I can shake a stick at...the place has huge wht and red oak that are dropping a bunch of acorns even now the beechnuts are huge and it's the nicest smelling woods I have ever been in with all of the hemlock. To top it off the huge ag field that butts up to it he rents out ..had a huge international and tandem disc on it ...So looks like I will have a winter grain of some kind that they will feed in...When I got there to wait for him I was walking toward the wood lot road looking up and All the giant trees when what do I do but step right on a wood chuck...freaking heart attack ..hahahaha lucky he didn't bite me but he squealed though. So I am the only bow hunter...and will have the place to my self ...I told him I would sign over my doe tag to one of his other gun hunters if I do not get any thing.. I am going back next week to just take a walk around...He is just so nice ...I have to carry my cell because the baby is due any time now and left it in his car...he drove it all the way to our place to deliver it...I see a lunch or dinner on me here before he returns down south. I'll admit was a tad bummed not hunting here that first two weeks ...but not now I will still be here on and off and my cams have increased and will have all new batteries to keep an eye on things. Now though I am stoked...so 8M and 8X are in my back tag. One thing for sure...when shot and the run down hill like here...there is only one place to go...toward my car...lol

It's only unethical if you're caught. ??? Ask Hillary about that. She'll school ya'. There is no "gray area' when it comes to ethics or morality, right vs wrong. I'm not a religious person, but I've always believed in, and followed, the Golden Rule. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Pretty simple.

What expense? It is an automated system and the retailers issue the tags. If you are actually talking about the cost of the paper I can't imagine there is anything there of significance. and as far as the energy going to the surviving does.....who cares if there is such a "critical need" to reduce the population in these areas? so they don't fawn well. so they don't winter well. The goal is DEAD right? major catastrophe if we don't reduce numbers based on what they are saying. so what would this matter. You can't apply QDM logic or justification to this half a$$ed process

Next you'll have to send us a picture of one of those double breasted, split tailed mattress thrashers..

Osprey, beyond a shadow of a doubt.. I see them on a daily basis here in the Canisteo Valley.. Just the other day I saw one carrying a pretty big fish, perhaps 2 or 3 pounds.. He had it turned head on( fish pointing the same way he was flying) to reduce air resistance..

I don't know how many times over the years I have left my 22 leaning against a tree or laying on a dry spot coon hunting. It was always alright if you just cut the dogs again to skin a coon, but if I had to leash up dogs to move to new woods, the darn rifle was left right there several times. Some how I always was able to go back in the woods and find it that night, or the next day. Sounds pretty easy? Try going out in the night time woods and lay down something valuable next to a random big tree, go back to your vehicle, and then go back and find it.

Sure, I'll play... it may help someone avoid an avoidable catastrophy. In my early high school days, me and a few buddies were hanging out at his house while his parents were out for the night. We found his old mans weed and beers in the garage before we headed up to our hangout in my buddies room to properly dispose of them the way young high school boys do. After all our buzzes kicked in, my buddy disappeared and came back with his old mans pistol he kept hidden in a shoebox under his bed. We all drunkenly and stoned handled and admired it for a bit before passing it on to our next friend in the circle. When the gun finally came around to me, I remember aiming it at my pal and trying to pull the trigger but it wouldn't "click" for some reason.... I don't know why or how we didn't try to figure it out at the time, but in the end we finally figured out the damn thing was LOADED with the safety on the whole time. I almost killed my best friend at the time because his dad was irresponsible in regard to safe storage of his weapons with kids in the house and our own stupidity. I think about that a lot now whenever I pick up any gun I'm unfamiliar with or see someone I know storing their firearms in a lazy manner. The consequences can be life altering for everyone, so I'm not afraid to share that story whenever I see a gun owner that has as much common sense as a inebriated high school youth. That experience has stuck with me for almost 30yrs now even though it could have ended much worse. I'm thankful it didn't, but I'm still not sure who I'm angrier at till this day...... myself for being young and dumb and intoxicated.... or his old man for being oblivious to what could have happened leaving a recipe for disaster so accessible to us all.

The OP wasn't about reducing inventory . It was about getting an employee discount and selling to make a profit . If it was my store and someone did that , they would be looking for a new job . Unethical !

So if a Company has no rule for reselling for a profit, but they fire you for doing just that, which they will, What do you call that?? Unlawful termination??

It would go over like a fart in church

Sorry but none of my FRIENDS would try to make a profit off me. That is why they are friends. Anyone who does in this manner would not be considered a real friend, just an associate. Note the first 3 letters in that last word! So by your logic I can make a profit of 5$ is ok but you will not allow your company to sell me a jet engine at half price so I can resell it for a profit. Only because the 5$ is more absorbable than a million dollar sale. And if I give you something to use that you need it is ok for you to resell it for profit and still need what you sold. Morally your ethics are out of tune. That is as nice as I can state it.

yes.... there's no personal vendetta against bowhunters.

Seems like they are all wintering just fine if the area is overpopulated. The bucks around me are packing plenty of headger, actually some of the largest, on average, in the state. The theory he gave is logical, doesnt hold water in the areas they carved out. Its all about population.

I actually forgot my true worst mishap with a gun. My truck was at the dealer getting warranty work and they gave me a loaner. Decided to head to the range to shoot my new to me CZ premium 30-06. Put the cased gun on top of the loaner since I had to open the trunk to load other equipment. Loaded equipment and off to the range. You guessed it, get to the range and where is my gun? Holy smokes, I forgot it on the roof of the car. Several trips back and forth looking for the case on the side of the road and nothing. Not knowing what to do, I call the police and explain what happened. 2 days later, cops call to say that someone found my gun and had put it on the lost and found on craigslist. They return it with no damage. I call the young man who turned it in and he refused to accept a reward, explaining that he saw it lying in the side of the road in front of my street and grabbed it before another truck that had stopped. Nice to know we have some honest people around. I really wanted to do something for him, but he just wouldn't have it and complimented the gun.

We have a lot of them on Long Island. The counties put up poles that make great nesting areas. This time of year you can watch the parents bringing in food for the young ones. It is really cool. Wooly it's time to cut off all the branches of a giant pine and put a platform up top for a nesting area. Rig up a 24 hr cam and stream it right here!

Heck if I know what it is but am looking forward to more pics from your hiding place.

google secret spot food plot seed. Sunlight will be the killer though, I think most require 2 to 4 hours of sunlight a day. Being small areas the cost is small enough to give it a whirl. I know guys who have used various brands of secret spot with some success deep in the woods.

As a teenager, I'm walking down the ice on a frozen creek with my M 69 Winchester .22.. the ice is lick and both feet go out from under me..The rifle goes into the air, does a couple of cartwheels and lands on the ice with a sickening CRACK !.. Broke off the front sight and cracked the stock...Got both repaired by a local gunsmith, but the rifle always bore the scars.. This is a REALLY dumb one....I am standing a quarterdeck mid watch on a Navy Destroyer.. The lazy ass CPO who is in charge of the watch is down in the chief's quarters watching TV and drinking coffee, leaving me alone... I'm bored stiff..I'm wearing a holstered, unloaded 1911 .45 with two loaded clips in a belt carrier... I wonder...." How long would it take me to get this pistol into action if I ever needed it ?" SO , standing alone on the quarterdeck in the middle of the night, I do a little "quickdraw" exercise.... I draw the pistol, pull a mag, load it in the pistol and rack the slide....Pretty dang quick, too, if I remember correctly.. Ok....Here I stand, locked and loaded, safety off....Time to unload the pistol.... I hold back the hammer and press the trigger to drop the hammer, something I had done many times with many different guns.. But this time the hammer SLIPS off my thumb... I swear to God it made the loudest CLICK I have ever heard in my life... Sweat pouring off my brow, I dropped the mag and ejected the round..The primer was dented, but not QUITE enough to ignite the primer... If that thing had gone off they would probably STILL have me in the brig, and that was in 1972..

Man you guys are a bunch of screw ups. Thanks for all the funny but safe (for the most part) replies. A few more are coming to mind for me but it'll take a while to compose them properly so that I don't look like too much of a boob.

I think asumption and opinion are two dofferent things... In my opinion I think Doc is probably right... there is no way to say yes or no not knowing for sure.. but I'm still allowed my opinion of what I think is going on. I can say however that mine and Docs opinion are pretty right on given what we do know and the lack of any credible logic behind what the DEC is doing... and why would they want the harvest done in October?... and why wouldn't they want it done in the most efficient way ( during the gun season) ... none of what they are doing makes any sense as far as conservation goes... so the logical thought would be that they have another agenda.

That is huge for a key deer, same holds true for coues

I laugh they are everywhere and those trophy rock things...I laughed when I saw them marketed for horses...there are a lot of camo wearing horse owners in this area....

Grow...the new Katniss Everdeen.

That this has gone on for 4 pages is funny. Whether its ethical or not is dictated by the terms of the company giving the discount. If the store says "buy as many as you want and do what you want with them", then no ethical concerns in reselling. If the store says "discounted items can only be purchased for personal use", then the answer is obvious. IMO

if we fail then next year they can make the gun season doe only for the first weekend, see how that goes over.

Simple, because the doe only thing has nothing to do with yearling buck management or Antler Restrictions.

small patches means many of them to prevent too much browse pressure. here and there would most likely mean a lot then. might want to be careful about wiping out what natural browse is left in some spots. any spot that has sun light probably has something, but if there's not much probably better off raking to bare soil and throwing down shade tolerant clover or something like has been said. keep in mind it sounds like it'll get browsed over pretty good and you creating these small patches of utopia could change the pattern of travel and what not of the deer. just things to consider when picking spots.

I would have said Goshawk...they are about the same size and coloration but Ospreyq are mainly fish eaters where Goshawks hunt mainly in the woods ans surrounding fields...but the beak looks osprey.

Beautiful pics.

So, how do they justify whining about the overpopulation crisis and then lowering the number of permits? That really doesn't make sense. The words don't match the actions.

Now that this topic has been brought up, I've been wondering the same thing of why there are no dmp's in the majority of the northern zone. If it's because of population, at least make it a preference point system so there's some out there...but im no DEC. Also, I've been wondering since the first day I started hunting of why on earth 6N, where my father owns property, is buck only for muzzleloader when every single other unit is either sex (except 6A now for early muzzloader according to these new ridiculous changes). We hunt that property 3 or 4 weekends a year before we can jump down to our hometown southern zone and we saw way more does in the area than bucks, even though I was able to take a spike on Halloween.

Yeap.. Pretty sure you nailed it.. We are seeing osprey #s and their huge nests rebound in the local area.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/28605.html#deer Bow season norther zone, the area in yellow on first map. You hunt with the bow tags you have, which would be either sex tag and if purchased an ML tag it gives you an additional antlerss tag to use for bow season or ML season. This is for the whole N tier that is in yellow. Now for ML if you are in an area on the ML season map that is antlered only the only tag you can use is your ML either sex tag to take a buck. I understand why this is confusing cause bow and ML are in same season. Its stupid as hell always has been always will be. If you follow the dates and which deer you can take is so dumb if you think about it. It tells us we can not shoot a doe with our ML during this ML season but yet we can with our bow in a few WMU's in N.Tier, however bow and ML are in the woods at the same damn time. Stupid its just stupid, OK so go ahead shoot a doe on october 17th with our bow in these areas but you cant shoot a doe with your ML on october 17th even though both season area open. You got to laugh at this. Sorry it took so damn long for me to figure out what you are talking about. Long week lol. Still how much sense does the DEC make with this? ABSOLUTELY NONE!

I ran into a couple many years ago on a hut out west. A friend and I took our truck to a trail-head on the outskirts of a popular Colorado ski town. The trail went about 10 miles, along a creek that flowed down from a tall mountain. It was popular with joggers and hikers (this town is really crazy about fitness), and hunters are rare. We were on the trail well before sunrise and my friend had taken a mule deer the day prior. On this day, he just walked up a short distance to try for an elk, giving me directions to his spot further up where the mullies seemed to be migrating thru. I went about 5 miles up the trail, then headed off a mile or so up a mountain side, to his "hot-spot". A short while after I found a nice overlook, which offered a good shot to the migration path, a group of 5-6 antlerless deer came by. Exactly 1 hour later, a second, similar group passed. I was ready an hour later when a third group passed, and this one included a decent buck. I killed him up there with my 30/06. My friend and another successful hunter had just left their deer, then came back and got some helpers before dragging them out. I was young and stupid and it was still fairly early in the day so I thought I could just take it slow and drag it out myself. It was a little rough getting it down to the trail (those things are a bit heftier than your average whitetail), and I started a small avalanche when the rear end caught between a couple boulders and got a whole bunch of them rolling downhill. Other than that, going downhill wasn't all that bad, but uphill was tough. Thankfully I had a canteen and water purification tablets and must have drank 5 gallons from the creek on the way out. By early afternoon it was getting quite warm and I packed the carcass with snow that I found on the shady side of a mountain, up high. I had a sling-shot in my jacket pocket but it was rolled up in my backpack due to the high temperature. Down on the trail, about halfway out, two large German shepherds came at me from around a bend. They were barking and drooling and very intent on the carcass. I backed away and tried to dig my slingshot out of my pack. Before I could lay down some fire, they ripped open the bag containing the heart and liver and wolfed them down. As I was still struggling to get the sling shot, two young women in bright jogging attire trotted up and called off their dogs. I must have been quite a sight, stripped to the waist and covered with sweat and blood. they looked at the deer and said: "That's gross". I replied: "Bambi was hurt real bad and I was trying to get him to the vet. He ain't got a chance now that your dogs ate his heart". They just continued on their way. Before I got back to the truck, just before sunset, they came by again without saying a word. When my buddy arrived shortly thereafter, he couldn't believe it when he saw the deer laying next to the truck. He asked me "what did you have an adrenalin rush or something?" He did get a kick out of the jogger story. All that work wasn't worth the effort as the meat was no where near as tasty as that from our NY whitetails. I probably should have just let the dogs have some more of it.

I sometimes Bow Hunt and gun hunt in Pittsford , just North of the thru-way . I have had a couple of the soccer moms blare their horns and shake their fists when driving by and I am in my camo . I had thought of making a bogus call to Lonsberry and say that I wanted to thank the lady who blasted her horn when driving by my vehicle . I hadn't seen a deer all day and when she blasted the horn on her SUV , 2 doe jumped up in the high grass and I was able to shoot both of them . Thanks for the help ! But then , the snobs in Pittsford probably don't listen to WHAM .

lol... I think there's a struggle with the OP being so open ended. basically if you're going against the stores wishes then it's unethical. if you intend to buy large quantities of gear at the discounted rate with sole intentions of selling it to make a profit then it's not ethical. if you happen to buy stuff to try it out, then find something better, don't want it, or some similar situation. then someone wants it so you sell it to them and they're willing to pay you more for it then what you got it for then so be it. unless the store has a policy against it then they have no grounds for firing you. normally I'd think you'd be taking a loss but we don't know how much the discount is. it revolves around intent.

Its nice to see the woods " come alive " !

Well not to me but I was with the guys at camp, one fellow came up and saw some turkeys we had got hanging and since he had his permit but no shotgun (was bow season) i lent him a 10ga single shot and took him out to where the turkeys were, he sees on pulls the gun up and nothing I yell bull back the hammer, he proceed to hit the ejection lever breaking the gun in half and ejecting the shell over his shoulder, the turkey just ran away.... Another time my friend who is a gun safety nut, brought down his gun and opening morning of gun takes it out of the case to find that he doesn't have the key for the lock,I told him I cold get it off but the lock would be shot, he said ok a quick run to the shed for a cordless drill and the lock was off in less than 3 seconds,drilled the keyway right out. (Useless things that they are) he quick got out before opening light on a perfect morning and got a nice buck. One serious one, had a friend carry his father's 870 pump over his arm (no sling)across a long deep snowy field, when he got to his stand he radioed he was all set, the drive pushed deer right to him, we heard 2 shots from his spot, snow had filled the end of his barrel unnoticed and he blew the barrel with the 1st shot but didn't notice it as the gun was scoped and the flower at the end of his barrel was not in scopes line of sight, he took second shot and then saw out the corner of his eye a leaf of metal, he was very lucky and it was the closest person I know of to be that lucky not to get hurt.

Might not be worst "gun handling" mishap but my worst gun related mishap happened in my mentors reloading room. My reloading mentor was showing me how to reload and after a range session we decided the load was not the best and proceeded to pull some bullets. He gave me a hammer type bullet puller and we put the cartridge in it. I started to hammer it on the ground, BANG!!!!! My heart stopped at the bang, and time was suspended while I waited for the main charge to go off and explode. It never came. After we caught out breath, and got our hearts going again, we determined that he had some loose primers on the floor and against all odds, I hit one with the hammer bullet puller! Taught me to keep a clean orderly gun/reloading room, I can tell you. _____________ Worst gun handling mishap might be when I blew my knee out during an icy deer season hunt and had to use my Rem 7600 as a cane to crawl home. The stock got all tore up. I keep it out of loyalty, it got me home, I'm keeping it scratches and all. note-three shots in the air only told the neighbors I was doing a lot of shooting, lot of good that did me.

Oh, I got plenty of those too,lol Most recently, turkey hunting with my sister this spring. We'd set up several times one morning and we weren't having much luck. We decided to call it quits early and started heading back home when I stopped dead in my tracks, looked at her and asked...."didn't I bring my gun along today..?" She said "You had it earlier this morning" Ahhhh crap, we made our way around to 5 or 6 of our last set ups where I finally found my shotgun laying in the leaves,lol I'm so used to paying such close attention to not leave my camera behind throughout the year, that Ii forget half of my other crap when I bring anything "extra".... like a gun for instance,lol

Um not really shouldent be going threw his****. You gonna load your pistol when some dude kicks your door down

How about a 2 week January doe only season using any weapon? Who does that hurt?

I'm in exactly the same boat. My area, 4O is the same way. PP required and in the antler restriction area. Just across the street is 4F (where I do not have permission to hunt) with doe permit chances rated "high" for first choice and no antler restriction. Go figure. I know the DEC has to chop up areas in some sort of logical and easily identifiable fashion, but sometimes it makes little sense deer/habitat wise. 4O runs from Stamford in the north of Delaware county down to hancock in the South generally along the west side of the West branch of the Delaware river. Our herd up here is way different than that down there. As one who got a late start in life, I have a sore spot for the way the antler point restriction works. Anyone between 12-16, junior hunters, are not subject to the rule and I understand that. It should help hunter recruitment. But for me, who has never shot a buck in my life, I feel its harsh. A person should not be restricted in their first buck, most on this site got theirs before antler restrictions and if truth be told was probably less than 6 points, or at least less than 3 points on one side. With todays computer licensing system and reporting, I feel anyone should be able to take a legal 1 point greater than 3" buck if it is their first buck of their life, and then the rule should apply. And please don't say it wont work because people will just not report their first non antler restriction buck. If someone is not going to report their first buck, they are probably not going to report other bucks. Point is a rule is only as good as the people who follow it, many never report any bucks. But at least give a guy a chance to take the first buck of his life!! I'm going on because I am facing another season of why bother going out during rifle season? No qualifying bucks around (the antler point restriction theory is not working to produce bigger bucks here) and I can't shoot a doe without a permit. Perhaps, I should have started another thread and just agreed with the initial post on this one. If you read and understood this, thank you.

Sorry bud but not true. I can show you plenty that are still black,balled up and hot to the touch. Bloodflow!!!! Just fixed a broken point on a yearling over the weekend that was blowing blood with every heartbeat. Yes all deer are different but early August see's many still putting on inches. Mine will start turning grey the last few days of August and be hard horn by middle of September at the latest.

No jabs here just an observation...when advertising as an outfitter....seeing your just starting out........ post pictures of the hunting client with the animals they took. Not a picture of you with the animal. It, IMO, would more than likely go over better...Good Luck

What would Morgan Freeman say? If you can't participate in an intelligent discussion, could please at least quit trying to prevent them from happening?

Greene County has had an uptick in the numbers these last few years !