Padre86
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Posts posted by Padre86
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Anyone in western NY (mostly looking at the Finger Lakes Region, but other western counties as well), looking for assistance in removing coyotes from their property?
I know they're more than abundant in this part of the state, so if anyone is willing to let a hunter come onto their property to take a few out of the equation, let me know. I'd be more than happy to have a phone call and make an introduction with any interested parties, as I know how letting a stranger hunt your lands can be a daunting issue. As well, I realize that deer season is just around the corner, so I'm not expecting to get permission anytime soon.
Please feel free to PM me or respond in this thread if you're interested.
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I've searched through the DEC regs, but have never been able to find anything on this specific issue. Is there a limit to the # of rounds you can load in your shotgun while out hunting (outside of waterfowl hunting, which comes under Federal regs if I recall correctly). For example if I wanted to hunt small game or deer with a shotgun, is there a restriction on how many rounds I can have in the magazine tube? I know for semi-auto's, the limit is 6. I've never seen anything listed for pump-actions though.
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Getting off topic, I know, but I had heard that a heavier grain bullet (for .308 at least) was needed for black bear due to the fat and muscle on their bodies. I normally use 150gr SP's for deer, though I realize that some here might consider that somewhat of an overkill.
Are 150gr's, lead or copper, sufficient for taking black bears in upstate NY? Perusing Federal's website, they were recommending bullets ranging from 160gr to 180gr, depending on the range.
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So if I were planning on using 180gr (.308) lead bullets to take something like a black bear, a 150gr copper bullet should suffice as an alternative?
And then does that mean if I've been using 150gr SP lead bullets for deer, I would be good to use something like a 120gr copper bullet (not sure if anyone makes something like that)?
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I just picked up some copper 150 gr Hunting rounds from Federal. I'll see how they do at the range later this week. I would like to find some heavier bullets to test out as well. Anyone know what the upper weight limit is for .308 copper rounds?
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9 hours ago, Core said:
I can only hope that there was a control put into this for shooting in general. By this I mean if you're into hunting you're more likely into guns and we know that guns expose the user to a small bit of lead even just by firing it (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6316a3.htm). Spend a bunch of time in an indoor range and your levels can go up. Hopefully the study controlled for that.
I'd personally prefer to feed my kids meat taken with lead-free bullets or by bow, just to be safe. But, I would still use lead ammo if I can be reasonably sure the meet close to the bullet damage is discarded.Great point on controlling for lead from extensive target shooting! As others have noted, your lead levels can also go up from a variety of other activities.
Also, your last comment (in bold) pretty much captures how most members of this forum seem to feel about this topic: if you want to hunt with lead-free ammo, fine and you're probably not doing any harm (to yourself or the environment). If you want to hunt with cheaper, lead bullets, that's fine too; just use some common sense and do a proper butchering of your meat, and you'll more than likely be fine as well (most hunters have been doing this for quite some time now and there haven't been any widespread health issues as a result).
People should be free to chose which bullet type they want to shoot and hunt with.
Now that the horse has been beaten several times over, I'm wondering when the mods will shut down this thread; it's starting to turn into a broken record.
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.308 w/ CRPF Winchester Model 70 type action.
Great rifle and very accurate. Definitely more of a tree-stand rifle than it is a mountain/back country rifle....but I'm hoping to add another lightweight bolt-action to my collection here in the near future.
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5 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:
Its been that way for a long long time. It won't change.
Maybe...
I remember hearing about a similar issue in some suburban, upscale neighborhood in Martha's Vineyard; the deer were plentiful, but the local homeowners were against any sort of hunting (and the local laws reflected that sentiment).
Then the deer got so plentiful that they started transmitting diseases and ticks and tore into soccer mom's gardens....and a limited season was implemented.
I think there is a tipping point, even for the most ardent of anti's...we just haven't gotten there yet.
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OP, figure out what kind of hunting you want to do and where you want to do it.
If you're stand hunting in some farmer's field, the rifle weight won't matter as much. So a standard rifle such suffice (something like a 20" barrel with a 3-9 scope).
If you're going to be hoofing it up and down Adirondack-style terrain, you'll want to go as light as possible...perhaps something like the Ruger Gunsite you mentioned, of either the 18" or 16" variety and maybe forgo the scope and use open sights (that's a personal preference issue).
Whatever rifle you end up getting, make sure you get proficient with it.
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They need to at least open a small window for bow hunting...the deer #'s in that area are getting out of control due to lack of hunting pressure. I'm sure they'll allow it at some point, but there is going to be a lot of grief and anger from some of the park's visitors.
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So I just picked up my big game and turkey tags at the local town hall. Is there a special permit you need for early bear season, or does the basic big game license allow for that?
Any restrictions on weapons used?
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7 minutes ago, growalot said:
It tells on the map exactly where the data came from...give your self a rest...
Right, so 'regional police departments' is a reference book I can go look up somewhere to verify these "sightings?"
And the Ontario Puma Foundation is considered a neutral, unbiased source? It seems to me they are just jumping at the bit as much as you are to declare that cougars are everywhere.
Your other source, the paper by Rosatte seems to be a bit more common-sense (as is usually the case with people who follow the scientific evidence to reach a conclusion rather twist the evidence to conform to their pre-formed narrative). The author even stated that the cougar indications being found in Ontario were likely a result of a combination of immigrant cougars, escapees from captivity and native individuals. And he also said that,
QuoteIt is difficult to discern whether increasing evidence from sightings is indicative of an expanding or increasing free-ranging population of Cougars in Ontario. For example, the media can have a great impact on the frequency of reports from the public of possible Cougar sightings (Cougar Management Guidelines Working Group 2005). On Saturday, 19 June 2010, one Ontario newspaper published an article on Cougar research in Ontario by the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources. On Monday, 21 June 2010, 48 media outlets (television, radio, newspaper) covered the same story. This resulted in numerous (>20) members of the public phoning OMNR and the Ontario Puma Foundation on the day of the story to report that they had observed a Cougar that day. Many of those sightings were misidentifications, with reporting being stimulated by the media coverage.
He's basically saying that increased sightings are not necessarily indicative of increasing cougar range, most especially because not all "sightings" are accurate. He even called out your rock-solid Ontario Puma Foundation as being part of the problem of over-hyping and over-exaggerating cougar sightings.
So maybe you should take the time to read this and other studies before making claims that there is a breeding population in Virginia and that cougars are about to start coming over the border en masse from Canada.
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22 minutes ago, growalot said:
So what it's a web page YOU never heard of., I said in previous post look carefully at the map
Last I looked CA stands for California. That second link does not say it's due to the remoteness or wild expanse of the Providence. The map of Ontario CANADA clearly shows a concentration of sightings in populated areas ..not all that far from NYS
Again I read many different articles and web pages I don't write them all down. I do stand by reading an official, stating the possibility of a small breeding population in Virginia, which you seem to be hung up on. You can show me where I gave a specific time line .Other than sooner than you think, as to one being here.
I put those links up so people can read and make their own conclusions. I find it interesting your attempt to discredit them...lol
That map you provided came from where exactly? I know it was in the website that you linked, but where did the website get it from? Do you have a source for that? Or are you just relying on it, without really caring about its origins and credibility? Kind of like your unsubstantiated claim that there is breeding population of cougars in Virginia...anyone else see a pattern developing here?
The map's listed sightings don't exactly match the map provided in the study done by Rosatte, which at least has some semblance of being a peer-reviewed, academic paper. Moreover, the map seems to be counting a wide variety of supposed sign to be indications of Cougars: sightings, tracks, scat, and vocalization....really? Vocalizations are now definitive signs of Cougar presence? How is that even being verified, especially considering the random Joe's who were calling and reporting these so-called "sightings?"
So, yes, I have have a serious doubt towards that map's validity. It's lists vague sources like: a 3rd party "Puma" organization and regional police departments, which makes it difficult for others to spot-check and verify these "sightings." Moreover, having driven through Ontario, CA (CA also stands for Canada), the heavy concentration of cougar sightings in southern Ontario versus the north, seems illogical, given that southern Ontario has more roads, towns, suburban sprawl versus the northern part...I don't find it unreasonable to believe that there are cougars in the remote areas, like Algonquin and Lake Superior Provincial Parks, and all the surrounding crown land...but I do have a hard time believing that cougars are in abundance in the Toronto and Niagara Falls area, at least to the extent that this map is suggesting that they are.
And how many of these "sightings" are being reported by actual hunters versus confused and naive wildlife enthusiasts? Ontario is a big hunting province; if there was much of a cougar presence around the Toronto area, you'd think there'd be a lot more hunters getting pictures, bringing in scat samples, ect. Again, not saying there aren't any transients moving through that area, but a resident, breedin population seems unlikely.
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1 hour ago, growalot said:
I'm going to leave you with a bit of reading,then I'm done here ...for I have learned that though admittedly it is sometimes fun poking the bear,as it were, I find imparting reason to some, is a futile exercise at best. Look closely at that map. Consider that the exact same thing being said by officials in states east of the Mississippi in the US ,were said here...now really how far is that from NY? rhetorical guys...
http://ecolocalizer.com/2009/11/08/are-cougars-really-extinct-in-ontario-canada/
http://easterncougar.org/pdfs/Cougar evidence in Ontario CFN 2011 125 (2) 116-125rosatte.pdf
One link is from a website I've never even heard of.
The other link is a study talking about cougar presence in Onatario, CA, which is not only feasible but also readily acknowledged by many wildlife experts to be likely cougar habitat due to the remote nature of much of that province.
Cougars re-establishing themselves in NY and parts of the eastern US is a whole other matter...the simple fact is the eastern US just doesn't have the expansive, remote wilderness tracts that exists out west or up north in Canada (with a few exceptions). Cougars coming into the east, have a lot more roads, farms, suburban sprawl to deal with, and with that, there is a much greater potential for conflict with humans. Again, I'm not saying that cougars won't ever make their way back into the eastern US....I just don't think that process will happen as quickly as you seem to want it to.
Also, I again ask you: what is your proof that there is a breeding population of cougars in Virginia?
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2 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:
One night I went to western NY. I met up with Pygmy and Larry. While Larry was smoking cigars, me and Pygmy met some Cougars. His was a big girl, mine was only 125lbs.
Yes, this happened in NY. Case closed. Lock up the thread! Go Red Sox, Go Chiefs, summer for another 6 months! Eff the fall!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk2 minutes ago, Larry302 said:Oh goodie a mountain lion thread .......we haven't had one in at least a couple weeks
Personally I don care for 200 pound Cougars , I'd say 135 at most ,if they are tall .
Lol....I knew it was only a matter of time before this "cougar" thread went in a whole other direction.
I should've stuck to using "mountain lion," to avoid the confusion.
All the same, never take your eyes off a cougar...when they latch onto you, it's hard to shake them off.
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12 minutes ago, growalot said:
I read it..can't find it right now... but here are some non NY lunatics from other states that have DNR's saying the same things..until they can't...
So an attack by an unverified animal is your proof that there is a breeding population of cougars in Virginia?
Again, I think most people don't have any problem acknowledging the existence of transient cougars...but an established, breeding population is another matter all together. And there are a whole array of methods used to determine rough estimates of animal populations (field surveys, track analysis, scat analysis, ect.).
It would also probably help if you actually provided the sources for those quotes, so we can see where where they came from and whether or not they're valid.
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18 minutes ago, growalot said:
I love you wrote that and even more that phade "liked" it...for that is all I ever said
You actually seemed to be implying that cougar expansion into the east was much more imminent than what current studies suggest. And you said that there is a breeding population in Virginia, though I've still yet to see you provide your source for that.
It's not unreasonable to think that cougars will eventually re-colonize parts of the east. But the fragmented nature of the wilderness in much of the east means that it will take quite a while for that to happen naturally.
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Growalot, I'm not denying that there have been transient cougars throughout the east, but you said there was scientific evidence of a breeding population in Virginia. Again I ask you: what is your source for that claim?
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7 hours ago, growalot said:
Listen ,they are already migrating this way. That IS a scientific fact...Virginia just finally admitted there is a breeding population there and many states west of them have now admitted it after years of denying sightings. All these guys are doing is trying to get ahead of the game....
It's scientific fact that this a breeding population of Cougars in Virginia? What is your source for that? If you want scientific fact, go read about the USFWS de-listing eastern cougar from the "endangered" list due to extinction: Eastern Cougar Extinct. There may be transients from the west moving through parts of the east, but that's not the same as an established, breeding population.
And these so-called "Sightings" are a dime-a-dozen. Scat samples, kill sites, tracks are left by all animals, even cougars. If there were a resident population of eastern cougars, anywhere outside of Florida, there would be scientific evidence to support that. Heck even when the Florida panther was down to only several dozen individuals back in the 70's and 80's, people were still hitting them with cars. Yet, for all these "sightings" there hasn't been one road-kill cougar, nor any tracks or DNA evidence to suggest that there is an established population in the East.
I think some people are letting their imagination get the better of them, just like some do with big-foot.
1 hour ago, growalot said:I think not, I am just stating the facts at hand. The reality of it is they have been headed this way for a while now...They have now established in states west of us, that also said they had none, until they did. Just as coy-wolves moved down from Canada, the mnt lion is moving east and at a fair pace. See I can look at the facts without injecting wild accusations or demeaning conjecture.
Transient cougars, usually young adult males, have been found in some eastern states. But it's going to take a bit more time for breeding populations to re-colonize the east, and such populations will likely only re-occupy remote areas of the Northeast, where they'll have the required habitat to accommodate their range.
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15 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:
I don't hunt farm fields but in NY, but I would think 400yard shots are possible, no? I remember as a kid my dad had access to a farm field in dutchess county and we target shoot well beyond 400 yards.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk400 yard hunting shots are certainly possible in NY, I just don't think they are the norm.
The tree stands I've used and seen have generally been set up on the edge of farm fields, where the deer are likely to cross or pop out, so the shots aren't normally that long....obviously that is a generalization to which there are exceptions.
And then when you start talking about still hunting in the woods, the distances get even shorter. Anyway, my point was that a scope with 3-9 magnification is realistically more than sufficient for the type of hunting someone would do in NY.
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On 8/6/2016 at 3:52 PM, G-Man said:
My question is what do you cosnider mid range? A 7mm is truly a long range gun.
Personally I like leupold but depends on where and range you are hunting.
7mm may be a long range gun, but hunting in the northeast (I assume that is where the OP is intending to use his scope/rifle setup) usually requires nothing beyond 150 yards.
OP, all of the scopes look decent enough on paper...they all come from reputable manufacturers. The 3-9 magnification range is more than adequate for the type of shots you'll likely be taking in NY. Is the Burris front focal plane or rear focal plane? If it's FFP, I'd definitely give it some serious consideration.
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12 hours ago, NFA-ADK said:
You are basically jeopardizing the health of the dog and possibly terminating its life if you fail to come back, in real remote woods it is not a possibility it can become a reality. Make sure that dog is leashed at all times regardless of if your hiking or not. Not every hunter knows what a tracking dog is and in deep woods during hunting season a tracking dog can be mistaken for fox, yote or any other excuse to take him out as vermin, don't let that happen!
Don't bring your dog, just hit the range more, your confidence will be so high you will not worry about need a dog to track. We all have some issues when it comes to shooting a big deer, make the shooting part of it second nature and practice stopping the deer or managing yourself to take more ethical shots and you will not even think about ever needing a tracking dog.
Start tracking for some hunters, you will see why you as a tracker and dog recovery tracker should have the ability to take exceptional shots, so when you have a marginal error it still leads to a dead deer within 100 yards.
I appreciate the feedback, but I'm fairly confident with myself when it comes to marksmanship and dog handling. I'm a decent enough shot and have no issues with accurately placing a bullet on anything within 500 yards. I know the in's and out's of handling my dog, especially in the woods during hunting season. I do intend to leash him up if I track or walk through an area with hunter activity. Otherwise, I've had no issues with him off leash during hikes and walks during hunting season; he knows to stay close and I put an orange harness on him to make him stand out.
I do like working with my dog, which was one of the main reasons I sought clarification on this issue. I don't plan on taking bad shots on purpose, but I do want the opportunity to put my dog's nose to work, whether it be for myself or for other hunters.
11 hours ago, grampy said:The very last thing I think I may need when I go deer hunting, is a tracking dog. Through practice with my hunting implements, I have gained sufficient confidence in my abilities to get the job done efficiently enough on my own. Tracking dogs are to be used as a last resort only! After all other efforts have failed.
Like I said earlier, this was never about my "needs." I don't need my dog at my side when I go hunting. But then also I don't need a scope on my rifle, nor do I need camo, a rifle sling nor a tree stand. One could argue those items are practical to have, but certainly not "needed" for a hunt.
I see a certain practicality in having a dog readily available to track in the backcountry. That practicality may be lost on someone who only walks 500ft from his car to his treestand, but anyone who has spent extensive time bushwacking in the remote parts of upstate NY knows that it is very easy to lose your bearings, especially when you are looking for something on the ground. I understand the stipulations on how and when such tracking can be conducted in NY. And, as someone else has acknowledged, it can be fun and educational, for both the dog and the handler, to track wounded deer, even if the deer's location is known. Tracking is a perishable skill, and the only way to get better at it is to actually do it.
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3 hours ago, outdoorstom said:
I'm late to the party too, but as a ltd license holder and active tracker, you're asking for a lot of trouble if you take your dog hunting with you. Tracking and hunting are clearly two separate activities.....you're either doing one or the other. Also, you'll learn you want to carry a sidearm while tracking, not a rifle or shotgun.
Agreed on the sidearm part. But for those who don't have a NYS pistol permit, carrying a shotgun or rifle is the only option.
To all the recent posters, thanks again for the additional feedback. I understand that hunting and tracking are 2 separate activities. The main cause for confusion, in my eyes, was that even tracking a wounded animal with a dog while carrying a rifle or shotgun, in the Northern Zone, was in direct violation of this clause in the DEC regs:
Quote- In the Northern Zone, if you are hunting with a dog, or accompanied by a dog, you may not possess a rifle larger than .22 caliber rim-fire or possess a shotgun loaded with slug, ball or buckshot unless you are coyote hunting with a dog.
the "accompanied by" part is what was throwing me for a loop. Culvercreek HuntClub gave the explanation that this tracking permit provides a legal exception to that rule, and I'm inclined to agree; obviously I'll verify that with the DEC.
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5 hours ago, Doc said:
Exactly where do you think the money comes from that makes up for the lost revenue due to "tax break incentives"? That is the problem today. People think that money spent on tax incentives is "free" money. The other government budget items didn't go anywhere, so somebody has to make up for ythe lost revenue paid to landowners.
The DEC tax incentive program for private landowners opening up land to public use gives a payback to the public:
people are now allowed to use these conservation easements, not just for hunting, but for all types of uses (hiking, camping, paddling, ect).
This program that you insist won't work is in fact already in place in NYS.
As for tax incentives stealing the tax-payer's money, I couldn't tell you how much of a cut this incentive program causes to the NY's overall revenue, and I doubt you could either, seeing as you didn't even know this tax incentive program existed in the first place. But you know what else steals money from the tax-payer? The actual taxes do. And in this state, which has one of the highest tax rates in the country, I'd be more inclined to complain about actual taxes levied rather than taxes refunded back due to incentive programs.
All that aside, I'm quite amazed that you started this thread with the intention of discussing ways to incentive private landowners to open up their land to the public, and yet when you learn about a state program which does just that you criticize it because it "steals" money from the taxpayer.....make up your mind.
Coyote Hunting
in Small Game and Predator Hunting
Posted
I thought I had mentioned that in my original post, but yes, to clarify, I'm not intending to ask for permission until after the deer season ends.