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Padre86

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Posts posted by Padre86

  1. 23 hours ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

    I'm loving this weather ! If it would stay hot this long every year , then other then  taxes I'd consider staying in NY .

    Trust me , you'll all be freezing in your stand before you know it , posting questions on keeping feet warm and best base layers .....

    I don't know about that.  You can always layer up when it's cold out.  Sweating your butt off while carrying your gear, and potentially meat, through the woods, having to deal with flies and the heat while field dressing, having all this green vegetation restricting your view...I'll take a cold, snowy day over a humid, hot one for deer hunting.

    • Like 1
  2. I made some morning attempts this weekend. Same issue: too hot and had to break off by midday. I just don't see the bear being that active in that kind of heat.

    I certainly enjoy being out in the woods, regardless of whether I get a bear. But the more time I spend hunting bear in the ADKs, the more I begin to appreciate why other forested states and parts of Canada are so keen on allowing for baiting, hounding, or both. Even when I find bear sign, it seems like it's a roll of the dice as to whether or not I'll see one.


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  3. 21 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

    where are you? I can tell you that very large areas in Region 7 get little to no pressure after Thanksgiving.  I boarder at least one 2,500 acre one and there are many more in the area. We head over when hunting is slow to do a few drives and never see anyone late season. I would bet a weekday hunt would be very lonesome. 

    I'm out of Rochester and mostly hunt the state and federal land in and around the Finger Lakes (when I'm not up in the ADK's).  I haven't tried any areas in Region 7 yet because it is a bit out the way for me.

     

    The hunting slows down after the first week where I'm at too, but the deer also become less active during the day and drives are really the only way to get them.  Not complaining, just pointing out that there really are no easy pickings on state land in western NY.  

     

     

    • Like 1
  4. 22 hours ago, G-Man said:

    There are pieces of stateland that are small 50acres or so and they are empty.. As well as many larger area that are empty.. I can go by 5000 acres of state land and see 3 or 4 cars or trucks.. Just advoid the parcels closest to metropolitan areas.. 30 min extra drive and your alone except for maybe a group of locals ...

    Where are these 5,000 acres of empty state land parcels that you are referring to?  I've driven by or been into many of the state and federal land areas in my area during the regular season....most of them aren't empty.

  5. 10 minutes ago, G-Man said:

    The problem is the habitat sucks in the Catskills as well as Hunter per as mile being very high.. So does are everywhere being seen but there has to be bucks to breed them... Thick nasty areas. Are few and far between from what I've seen Who it turkey hunting there.. 

    I suggest you save a few bucks and drive to wny and hunt for a week.. Lots of doe tags and lots of. Deer

    Lots of doe tags for sure, but the hunter per mile is still very high, especially on public land here in the western part of the state.  Your best bet is to lease or find that special place that few other hunters know about.

  6. 7 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

    That is one reason why I am a huge proponent of all antlerless take being through the permit system. No more antlerless bow or ML. Get your antlered tag and then apply where you want to get an antlerless. If you draw an antlerless tag for the area you decide what weapon and season you want to fill it in. gun hunters, bow hunter and ML should have the same draw opportunity. Even in the DAKS

    Don't quote me on ADK archery and muzzleloader....I'll have to doublecheck, but I think DMP's may be restricted or even unavailable for those seasons in some WMU's up there.

  7. I'm not familiar with the layout of state land in that part of the state, but if you look at Google maps you can get a good overview of the public land in your area.  Not all of it may be open to hunting, but you can check the DEC website for more information on that.  Also, ADK's aren't too far from where you are.

     

    Good luck!

    • Like 1
  8. On 9/10/2017 at 9:29 PM, Larry said:

    How can anyone go into get a DMP and not know how many are being issued and the odds for the WMU’s you’re applying for. You should be looking at the hunting forecast for that WMU. The DEC puts out the hunting forecast for the states WMU’s every year. The DEC has to manage the whole WMU not just your little part of deer heaven.

    Agreed.  I'm not familiar with the deer situation in and around the catskills, but are there not WMU's nearby that have a high probability of getting a DMP?

     

    I know for the ADK's, where I hunt, DMP's aren't even an option for rifle season (muzzleloader and archery might be different).  That's just something that I accept going into every season.  DEC DMP Regions

  9. 17 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

    Check out the "woods" in Northern Ontario, at least Gogama where I've hunted. Its an absolute jungle. You literally need a machete to chop your way to recover your bear. You could hunt your entire life and not get a bow shot if they werent pulling them in to a bait, nevermind the 3 or 5 days you are there to hunt.

    Having spent a good amount of time in Ontario, I agree with this.  The woods up there are thick and remote.  You'd be hard pressed to have a successful stalk and spot hunt or unbaited stand hunt up there, especially if you only had a few days to hunt.  There is a reason why hounding or baiting, or both, are such prevalent methods in the eastern Canadian provinces and the northeastern US states (excepting NY of course).

     

    16 hours ago, Drew2255 said:

    This thread got me thinking for sure, I can see how hunters might be against this way of pursuing bear and that's fine, to each their own, in the end we're all part of the hunting community, right?.....

    Having just gotten back from Maine and connecting with a bear, first off I think about the folks up in the area where we do the hunting and how appreciative they are for all the business we bring, they don't have a lot (financially speaking), the hunters who come up that way do a lot of good for their economy during Bear season,

    secondly it's not a guaranteed thing that your gonna get a bear, yes it increases your odds over bait, but not every one goes home with a bear, it's just a different tactic for pursuing game, if it's not for you that's ok, not gonna put down another guy/gal for being out there legally pursuing game...

    I haven't hunted bear over bait, and I don't know that I ever would.  And I'm not saying that because I have ethical reservations about such methods, but rather because I just don't like sitting in a tree stand for hours on end; I'd rather be on my feet and able to move.  However, I have watched videos and listened to podcasts where guides and DIY hunters talk about baiting for bears; the prep work is a lot more involved than most people realize and as some here have pointed out, it by no means guarantees a successful harvest.  

    It's not my cup of tea, but I can see the fair chase aspects of it and I certainly wouldn't presume to tell someone else that they couldn't do it.

     

    6 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

    35 years hunting up north and took 2 without bait. One while I was driving woods to my hunting partners and one while just sitting on watch. Both byproducts of deer hunting. 

    The bear harvest for the Northern Zone of NY reflects how difficult it is to get a bear in the big woods up North; the harvest # has hovered around 500 per year, despite the fact that 50-60% of NY's bear population (est. at 6k-8k) is located up there.

  10. 4 hours ago, Belo said:

    This was in the DEC digest for anyone still looking lol

     

    High Bear Activity in Eastern High Peaks and Giant Mountain Wilderness: Bears have been very active in approaching hikers and campers around Marcy Dam, Lake Colden, and Feldspar Lean-to in the Eastern High Peaks Wilderness and around Roaring Brook Falls in the Giant Mountain Wilderness. All visitors to these areas are advised to practice proper management of food, trash, and toiletries to prevent negative encounters with bears and creating nuisance bears including

    I've been thinking of heading into the High Peaks this coming season.  Might try some predator calling with the bear in that area.  I heard of some hunters out west in Washington or Oregon who have used that tactic with good success in the densely wooded areas out there.

  11. On 9/2/2017 at 9:41 AM, slickrockpack said:

    actually selenium depletion due to pollution is the main factor affecting bighorn sheep, and everything else at high elevation..

    30 years ago selenium blocks were put out to "fix" this problem and the concentrated feeding areas these false food plots created only concentrated the lions and increased predation. Not to mention increased disease spread in the sheep herds drawing them into what essentially became bait stations.

    what is the solution?

    Less pollution. good luck with that one. Easier to build a food plot, and humans like Easy.

    ///

    wolves were reintroduced because the hippies that run YNP want to return it to pre-Columbian times, and they hoped to remove enough elk that hunting stopped being an option in the park. Period.

    Wolves do not eat predominately cow elk by choice, there ARE predominantly cow elk in a herd, 90/10 cow to bull so odds are you will be eating a cow if you are a wolf, which is fine there were too many elk in there.

    And while we enjoyed it as the incubation and breeding ground that Teddy R saw and loved, the problem we face today is of the current 1800 pairs of wolves that sprung from that reintroduction and the feeding frenzy that reduced the elk from 30,000 in the park to less than 1,200 the problem is the wolves have left the park now, less than 40 in the park this year spring survey, because lack of food is a self limiting factor.

    In coyotes, wolves, beaver, deer and elk among others, food supply dictates birth rates and litter sizes as well as sex of offspring in many ungulates, deer and elk among them.

    the social issue is the wolves find easy prey outside the park where there is an odd mix of citiots and die hard farmer.

    The citiot who believe Dances with Wolves was a real thing and not a made up movie, and third generation farmer who insists on raising cattle and sheep, things that should not and could not be raised here and wouldn't without the massive bailouts by taxpayers.

    it is a matter of natural selection, lack of intelligence, and adaptability, and I don't mean on the part of the animals.

    I sat through a tedious report on beavers and how they are destroying the eastern brook trout in New England and throughout I could only think of how many millennia both beavers and brook trout had survived in tandem without the armchair biologist and self appointed nature lover and how happily they would be surviving still long after both were gone. I wondered then , as I do now , if the beaver, trout, elk or wolf even will have noticed the blip in their history where humans had control over them.

    Which is the right way to manage an animal herd?

    I don't know, why are there so many different kinds of beer?

    A bit too much hyperbole and rhetoric for my tastes.  But your comment in bold pretty much highlights my own point about predator management out west.  There is only so much habitat they can occupy without running into conflicts with other human activities.  The food sources in those lands do, to a large extent, influence the population #'s.  The problem is when the population #'s exceed what the food sources can support, the excess #'s move off into other lands in search of food...this is often when/where the conflict with humans occur.

    Also, what did you mean by this statement: 

    Quote

    farmer who insists on raising cattle and sheep, things that should not and could not be raised here and wouldn't without the massive bailouts by taxpayers.

     

  12. Anyone have any plans to hunt bear in the early season this year?  Thinking about going out.


    I'll be heading out as soon as I am back in the adk's. don't know if I'll find a bear this season, but I'll be out there all the same. Might try some trips into the Catskills too.


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  13. This is a pretty convoluted way of saying that if you take away, or decrease, the wolf's natural food sources, its population will decrease as well.

    That's well and good in theory, but there are areas where an over abundance of predators is detrimental to fragile or recovering ungulate populations. These are areas where predator control is absolutely needed.

    Case and point, a lot of people don't realize this but there is small and struggling caribou population in the Pacific Northwest of the us. Their numbers have had a hard time recovering as of late mainly because of the resurgent wolf population in that area.

    .

    Also, there are many areas of the western us where state game agencies have reintroduced and tried to recover big horn sheep...main threat facing some of those population groups is mountain lion.

    I don't think apex predators like bear, cougar and wolf should be extirpated like they were in years past. But in order to accommodate multiple uses (ranching, sport and subsistence hunting, residences) on a shrinking landscape, there should be unbiased, scientifically-based predator management policies in place to keep the predator activity at a viable level. Animal activist groups try to argue that there are alternative methods to achieving this harmony and they wage unending legal battles every time a charismatic predator (wolf, grizzly) recovers and is viable enough to be delisted from the endangered species act.

    This is a waste of money and effort IMO. They should spend their money instead on habitat acquisition and management. And everyone should be grateful that our conservation system has seen success with some of these Animals.

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    • Like 2
  14. 46 minutes ago, Belo said:

    awesome. really wish we could bait bears in ny. seems it's allowed everywhere else and all i ever see them killed.

    Baiting and hounding are fairly common in the other northeastern states and Canadian provinces.  And given the terrain and dense forests that exists in these regions, such methods make sense in my opinion.  

     

    The DEC said in an earlier study that they were actually re-evaluating those hunting methods as a means of increasing bear hunter participation.

    • Like 1
  15. 11 hours ago, adkhunter71 said:

    I am pretty sure that they would frown upon anyone hunting there as it is basically part of the ski area.  I doubt that there are many bears around there anyway as most of the transfer stations pretty much keep things contained....unlike 30-40 years ago when we used to go to the dumps just before dark to see bears as entertainment.  

    This is what I was getting at in my earlier post.  I just have a hard time believing that the bear are flocking to dump stations up there because of the new regulations and protocols in place.  Bear-proofing everything, including trash, is religiously followed up there.

    • Like 1
  16. 5 hours ago, Belo said:

    not many folks will let you in their favor spot. That may seem unfriendly but it's just the nature of the beast. Many of us spent years doing just what you mentioned "trial and error". Even with a long line of hunters in my family, there is something to be said for putting in your time. Now don't get me wrong, I was blessed and well educated. But after the honeymoon teen years of "sit here boy". I was expected to help with prep and scout. And i have always been a dragger lol.

    When I moved, the trial and error of unknown land was frustrating but highly rewarding. I think many hunters here love to help new hunters if they're open minded. But I don't know of many who will bring you onto their property. It's too expensive, too rare and deer are too sensitive to pressure. It's been said 1000 times, but hunting decline is by and large the result of less good public or open land to hunt. Hunters are partly to blame. We find a honey hole, lease it and post it up. So are lawyers scaring every little old lady with some land that she will be sued if a hunter gets hurt. And then of course there's the obvious urban sprawl.

    finally there is A LOT to learn, which seems intimidating. I've taken many hobbies over the years and my head always starts to spin at first. And with hunting, the beauty is that it's not meant to be easy. That's the best part!

     

    Yeah, I don't expect other hunters to show me or anyone else their favorite hunting spots; that's not really what I'm talking about when referring to the challenges facing a new hunter.  

    I'm talking about experienced hunters engaging and helping new hunters, providing guidance on issues like: how to process the deer meat; how to scout and identify deer habitat and food sources; how to find leases on private land;  where and how to hunt on public land; ect.  Heck, just getting into an affordable lease on private land is pretty tough in my area, and it shouldn't be like that given the huge amount of viable deer habitat that exists in western NY.  A lot of hunters I know either have actual land to hunt or have personal connections in the rural counties through which they've worked out hunting agreements; those aren't necessarily viable options for most city or suburban dwelling hunters and those issues present some challenges.  Like I said earlier, I've enjoyed the learning process, but I can see how other prospective hunters might get discouraged and shy away from the sport due to such issues.

    I'm still very surprised that with all the farm country that exists not more than 10 minutes outside of the city of Rochester, there are very few farmers in my area who advertise hunting opportunities on their land.  I'm sure some want to hunt their own land, but as I drive through the countryside during fall season, I know for a fact that a lot of them don't.  You can go knocking door-to-door to seek out potential leases or hunting opportunities, but overall it's a difficult proposition for a new hunter to find and figure out those kinds of arrangements. 

    After the hunter education course, there just isn't a lot of guidance and direction for new hunters seeking opportunities, at least for those coming from cities and populated suburbs.  And hunting culture doesn't have much representation in those areas either.  It's those population centers that have increasing influence over hunting policy and general conservation legislation, so it's in our best interests to cultivate aspiring hunters from such areas and to have open dialogue with the rest of the non-hunters.  Otherwise, we're leaving an open opportunity for groups like PETA and HSUS to come in and sway popular opinion on such matters.

    • Like 1
  17. If people here are so worried about declining hunter numbers and declining public support for hunting, they should make more of an effort to reach out to new audiences and bring new people into the culture.  What I find interesting about hunting, at least in NY, is that while there still is a thriving culture and community, it's very much an 'old-boy' network; by that I mean it is to your benefit to know people and be connected with local communities in order to gain leasing opportunities or hunting access or even to meet up with other people to hunt with.  

     

    I'm a relative newcomer to the this activity; I didn't hunt growing up and hardly anyone in my extended family hunts.  I wouldn't say that atmosphere has been unfriendly.  Actually, I was welcomed in and met a great bunch of people to hunt coyotes with in western NY.  But I'd say as an outsider looking in, the overall culture and community was a bit standoffish.  As an inexperienced hunter, not many people, outside of one distant relative, were willing to talk specifics with me on deer hunting, locations and tactics; there's been a lot of trail and error on my part to figure this stuff out, which I've enjoyed a lot, but I can see how that would be intimidating to other newcomers.  Likewise, where I live in Rochester, the hunting culture just doesn't get a lot of representation, or if it does it's usually not positive (stuff like Cecil the Lion).

     

    Hunter #'s have declined over the last few decades, but we are seeing a revival of sorts where hunters are finding new ways to reach new audiences (youtube, social media) and new demographics are getting involved (I think female hunter #'s are higher now than they ever were in the past).   But hunters have been a small minority of the overall population for a while now.  The key to hunting's survival, IMHO, is to earn and maintain the support of the public at large; I think something like 60%-70% of US citizens still support hunting in some form or fashion.  We've got to do what we can to maintain that margin of support, which means representing our culture in a professional manner and having conversations with non-hunters (even those who are expressly against hunting).  I know there are people out west who do a decent job of this (people like Steven Rinella and Randy Newberg) and I know of some writers based here in the east whose work I also respect.  

  18. 5 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

    So if it is skinned and quartered or even deboned, is it still a carcass?

    Not sure on the skinned and quartered part.  I'd assume by the time you've actually deboned and packaged the meat for final consumption you'd no longer need proof of sex.  

     

    The paragraph I quoted was on the same page as the quotes you provided if you want to get further details on the regulations.  

  19. On 8/17/2017 at 2:05 PM, sodfather said:

    Sorry but unless you a first time hunter or a 14 year old kid you won't get a peep out of me. I've spent hundreds of hours scouting and finding places to hunt and when someone asks for a hand out I think your a troll or a democrat.  Put miles on your vehicle and leather to earth and when you figure it out on your own post your pics and my hat will go off to you. But in the meantime work for it

    If you don't want to offer advice, then why say anything at all?

     

    OP, public land hunting (at least for deer) is fairly tough in western NY.  There are quite a few pieces of public land (easily identifiable by browsing google maps or the DEC’s website).  The issue is, once rifle season starts up, most of those areas get very crowded with hunters for the first week or so.  After that initial period, many of the deer get wise and do their best to avoid movement during the day. 

     

    That said, there are certain areas of public land that see relatively little pressure, mostly because hunters don’t think to look in those areas.  A good rule of thumb is if there is trailhead parking along a main road, you can bet there will be competition (at least for the deer season).  PM me if you want more specific advice.  There are general areas that are worth your time, but it's still highly recommended that you do some scouting ahead of the season.

    Also, you might consider taking an extended trip into the Adirondacks or Tug Hill area.  The deer density up there isn’t nearly as high  as it is in western NY, but the flip side of that coin is that it’s extremely easy to have an area all to yourself. 

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