Is the NRA giving us a con-job ???

[nyantler]

Last I knew.. DC still has a ban on guns...

[wesdblc]

Washington, D.C., has enacted a number of strict gun-restriction laws. The Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975 prohibited residents from owning handguns, excluding those registered prior to February 5, 1977; however, this law was subsequently overturned in March 2007 by the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit in Parker v. District of Columbia.^[36] The ruling was upheld in June 2008 by the Supreme Court of the United States in District of Columbia v. Heller. Both courts held that the city's handgun ban violated individuals' Second Amendment right to gun ownership.^[

[Mr VJP]

Second Amendment Foundation is the same organization that won Chicago case in Supreme Court as well as the Washington DC case... So lets see thats 2 areas that are liberal areas and they won ; without the NRA's help.... I know the case in Chicago will pave the way for New York. Again no thanks for the NRA... I know one thing SHOW ME THE MONEY!!! and Second Amendment Foundation has

Is that what you have been led to believe?  Better check your facts with an unbiased source as you are being taken for a long ride.  Seems your group feeds you lies because they want your money.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

he's propaganda.

[wesdblc]

That is funny about the unbiased soarce ...maybe you should look at it what has tha NRA done for NY and then come back and aske me if I am being taken for a ride... lets see the last 3 Governors have been anti and the legislative majority anti... most of the State is liberal but Second Amendment Foundation is the only organization fighting laws in the Supreme Court so how is that for facts. So before you bring you talk to the table tell Hollywood NRA to do something for New Yorkers and maybe just maybe they will see more money given to them from here so they can have there lavish hunting trips and gorgous homes and as well fat pockets for them. Second Amendment Foundation does not buy list to send out asking for money .....Just think about it why does the NRA ask for money always and things keep getting worst and never do you here about the big fight. As far as you statment unbiased soarce...the facts are the facts..NRA has done nothing for New Yorkers ...Second Amendment Foundation is going to get thing done for us, then Im sure you will be thanking them for paving the way to gun ownership in New York .....

[backstrapper]

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/read.aspx?id=4560

http://www.nysrpa.org/

Just a couple of things the NRA has been involved in here in NY.  Can we really have too many people/orginizations fighting for our gun rights?  I believe it helps to have both local and national support against the anti guns crusades. Can't have too much support and in this day and age of politcal BS we need to have local grass roots orginzations fighting for our rights AND we need to have powerful lobby type groups like the NRA dealing with the political crap in DC.  What I don't think is helpful is fighting and name calling  amongst the average Joes on forums. We need to be informed, debate, discuss, and unite as one against those that want to take away our rights to bear arms that were paved by our founding fathers. Great discussions guys, sometimes we (me) get so caught up in our own hunting and fishing we forget about the bigger fight.  Thanks for the reminder guys and try to stay civil amongst ourselves.  ;D

[Mr VJP]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating.

If you ain't NRA, you're nothing!

[wesdblc]

Brain Washing !!!!!!!

[bpb]

Second Amendment Foundation is the only one willing to help and chage things in NY for gun permits.

It was SCOPE that won the suit on permit transfer fees.  SCOPE played a big part in the latest NASSAU county colored handgun court success.

Matter of Chwick v Mulvey - The Nassau County Chronicle - Zimbio

Dec 28, 2010 ... The first is whether a Nassau County ordinance that bans "deceptively colored" handguns is preempted by State law. The second is whether the ...

www.zimbio.com/...Nassau+County.../Matter+of+Chwick+v+Mulvey -  

SCOPE also has helped fund the Westchester County Lawsuit.

BlackPowderBill's: SCOPE GIVES $5K TO SAF FOR HELP IN NEW YORK LAWSUIT

Aug 13, 2010 ... Note on your check it is for the SAF law suit. SCOPE.    I'm waiting to see how the Jan 25th rally turns out.  

[wesdblc]

thank you very much scope for stepping up ...where is the NRA with there deep pockets ....this is going to be one of the best liberal state laws to be changed

[nyrkba]

SCOPE is also the one who pushed for renewable pistol licenses with mandatory marksmanship training, mandatory firearms storage in the home, mandatory lectures on state law governing firearm use, and tacking on hundred of dollars in fees.

[wesdblc]

back it up with the facts show us the proof... so far NRA has done nothing for NY...SAF is doing everything in the courts for us ...SCOPE helped with donations...

[nyrkba]

back it up with the facts show us the proof...

Page 9 -- http://www.eriectyfsc.org/minutes/2009/ECFSCOct2009.pdf

[backstrapper]

NYRB  It appears that might have been an isolated incindent if you go to scopes site they list some of the laws you mentioned and they opposed them.

http://www.scopeny.org/anti-gun-legislation.html

As far as the NRA goes I believe ( I could be wrong) that most of their lobbyiung for us happens on the national level.  As I said before we need groups repping us locally, on the state level and on the national level. 

[nyrkba]

[bpb]

Excuse my grammar and writing skills I'm a licensed engineer not a english major.

And here I thought we were on a new road since my phone conversation with the NYSR&P VP of Operations.

=

Ah Jake drags out the misinterpreted letter again. Let me clarify this.

  No Jake you are incorrect again and you know it!

Many handgun owners had questioned and wanted us to look into the 5 yr renewable permit. Hey, because it’s in other states and the NRA didn't object to it.

The past President of SCOPE was instructed to ask the SCOPE Board of Directors if we wanted to peruse this.

  That’s what the association leadership is suppose to do; is ask the membership what direction the association should take since so many people were asking about renewable permits.

What was R&P going to do wait till the laws passed, then try to negotiate for something better? 

The SCOPE Board of Directors voted NO to a renewable permit.

SCOPE has a set of opinion papers that were published in 2010, they are online for all to see.

Let’s ask Jake where his associations set of opinions are?

Let’s ask if R&P has a set of “what ifs’” laid out so when another anti law is passed gun owners will have an idea of what to do?

Jake, as well as I, know was well aware of this, as was Tom King President of NYSR&P because Ken Mathison discussed many issues with Tom King.

So boys and girls~

You'll never see Jake actually give a stance or an opinion as he can only point fingers at the other groups in NY.

Maybe you should all ask Jake, why NY has the Pataki 5 point plan.

It wasn’t my gun club(s) that received a $150,000.00 state grant to up grade the kitchen and shooting areas.

Or why he considers the Nassau county lawsuit half baked?

Or why Rochester has an AW ban?

Or why we can’t carry in most county parks?

Or why we even have to have a permit in the first place?

Or Kirsten Gillibrand the Albany NRA’s go to girl turned anti.

Or why the bill to stop judges from placing restrictions on permits was stopped?

OR why we can’t use our permits for FL 4473 firearms transfers any longer? NY has    complied with the FBI’s program, what’s the hold up?

SCOPE doesn’t believe we should even have to have a permit. SCOPE’s Past President  Ken Mathison has stated that on many radio shows.

Yet the NRA runs around the nation fighting for carry permits, with training. If training is so bad then why does the NRA have so many firearms training programs?

It was SCOPE that got the Eddie Eagle courses in Wayne county schools.

It was SCOPE that pushed for plastic permit I.D. Cards in Wayne county, if you want one.

SCOPE has local monthly meetings for its members to discuss issues. Where are the NYSR&P’s affiliates meetings held at again?

I don’t even have the time to get into the animal rights issues I tried to get NYSRPA involved with in the early 1990’s. I was laughed at told they didn’t have time as those groups were idiots.

  OH, I almost forgot for those of you, who don't know who NYRKB is. It’s Jacob Rieper, legislative director of the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association. ...

With that said:

  YOU, Jake, call Joseph P. DeBergalis , Jr. NRA Director & NYSRPA VP of Operations and tell him the NYSRPA and State Muzzle-Loaders association affiliation is OFF~ DONE~ZIP~Ain’t gonna happen~ ever!!!

Here’s his number 518-389-8322

Oh I’ll put the affiliation idea up to a vote to my Board in February since it’s a new item for them.  There isn’t going to be any secret votes or committees making the decision.

=======

FYI: Guys, I’ve been an NRA member longer than most of those who condemn SCOPE.  I’ve also belonged to at one time to about every 2^nd amendment group alive.

Started shooting at age 5~ I’ve shot Jr. DCM took my NRA rifle course at the age of 11

(Can’t do that in NY ya have to be 12 yrs old to shoot a firearm)

NRA Endowment member 30 plus years

SCOPE Life member 25+ yrs & State Director

NYS Muzzle-Loaders Association President * Life member

NMLRA member

Past founding trustee and President Region Eight North Instructors Association

Past Hunter Ed instructor Firearm and Bow

Past VP of National Association of Powder Engineers in Rochester

(I turned down the Pres. Position to help get the Williamson gun club back on its feet.)

Director and past President of the Williamson Conservation & Sporting Club

Licensed FFL over 20 years

Past President, Secretary, PR to the  Wayne County Federation of Sportsmen clubs

U.S Navy vet 6.7 years active duty

Past NYSRPA member and the only reason I re-joined was to help Tim Callery out because I felt the association was going to turn around.

=====

I’m sick and tired of the NYSRPA pissing match. From here on out Jake, your association does not exist to me.  The rest of us actually have associations to run and we accomplish quite a bit without all the hype and fact less comments. Go back to your blogs and negative comments, stay in Albany.

End of my comments on this subject~ Anyone want to hear more contact me offline or better yet come to a SCOPE meeting and see what were doing.

[nyrkba]

Bill,

You are flat out lying.

Nobody was requesting you look into renewable licenses.  This was product of the SCOPE Board and Ken specifically.  He floated that idea long before you came  around too.  He also took it to the  Republicans in Albany.  This was not somebody's  brain fart.  This was a deliberate act to  screw the gun owners of this state.  The  only thing you are upset about is that you got called it after the public found  out about it because you tried floating it all over WNY.

This isn’t a one shot  mistake either.  You personally have been  actively and openly promoting antigun and antihunting politicians for years and  you have done so in your capacity as SCOPE officer.  You  don’t like getting called on that either.  That is the core of your problem, Bill:  You are not honest with your constituents.  Your chest thumping means nothing to me because I know you're not an asset to any organization.  Your own Board knows this too.  That's why half of them are signed up for our e-mail list and/or Facebook group.  They know you're a fraud.

BTW: I’m not hiding anything either.  My contact info has been in my profile for  years.  You were just too dumb to look it  up.

[nyantler]

Sounds like a pissin'atch between 2 pro gun organizations.. how is it that this is even happening... just another reason why the percentage of members versus gun owners for the NRA, Scope and the like is so low... two organizations with the same cause fighting against one another... its a shame.

[backstrapper]

This 'in' fighting is playing right into the anti's hands.  It's a shame.

[Doc]

That kind of bickering is quite an eye-opener, isn't it? Hunters and gun owners are un-organizable, and this thread seems to be pointing to at least one of the reasons why. I've heard the same kind of nonsense with other sportsmen's organizations. So on issues where we seem to be constantly losing ground to the antis, I guess it's not that much of a mystery anymore is it?  :

[backstrapper]

It's us versus us versus them.

It should be us versus them. Actually there should be no 'them' but that's a pipe dream.

[Mr VJP]

Some gun owners won't join the NRA because the NRA won't compromise.

Some groups, like the NAGR, constantly say the NRA is too soft and needs to be more aggressive.

Gun owners run the spectrum from hard right wing, to far left wing.  So how does one decide which pro gun group is defending our 2nd Amendment rights?

Easy.  Study the 2nd Amendment thoroughly, including all of the documents by the founders regarding that amendment, and learn exactly what right is protected by that amendment in the Bill of Rights.  It isn't about hunting, target shooting or "need"!  Once you know why that amendment was put into the Bill of Rights, and 2nd in importance at that, then you will start to understand why the NRA is doing it right and knows what it is doing.

[nyantler]

I find that the biggest argument about the NRA from non-members is that they are always asking for money... I don't understand the problem with them asking for your money.. they don't force anyone to buck up... it is completely voluntary... the only thing they require is that if you are a member you must pay your annual dues to remain a member.. I don't find that unreasonable. I only give what I can when I can.. thats not so hard to do. What is really more important is becoming a member to show your support as a pro 2nd amendment advocate... for a meager $25 bucks a year (what many hunters spend on one round of beers at the local watering hole) you have shown your support for what the NRA stands for...

[fasteddie]

Membership is $35 a year . That's one thing but then they come back and want more . I usually get solicited for more money about a month after paying the yearly membership dues .

[nyantler]

ok I am a lifer so i stand corrected on the annual dues.. I didn't say that they didn't ask for more money.. I was asking why is it such a bother? You don't have to give, but it is still the job of a non-profit to ask.