Deer Refelexes

[dirt_a_KISS]

I've always wander how fast deer reflexes realy are and how to overcome them. Since last year is when i started wondering. The old man took a shot at a spiker at roughly 20 to 30 yards out. With in a second or two the deer duck the shot and ran off. My question to all the bow hunters out there is how to over come the reflexes? When do the deer begin to "jump the string"(i think thats what its called when the deer ducks). Do they do it at 5, 10, 15 and so on. Is it increased when the deers alert and the speed of the bow a factor(I shoot a diamond outlaw if that helps)?

[5.9cummins]

You will never shoot a bow faster than a deer can duck. Speed is a gimmick (unless your firearms). Try to take relaxed shots, shots on a slow walk and keep it close.

The 60-70-100+ yard shots on TV are BS!!!!!!!!!

[wdswtr]

Sort of funny how it plays out sometimes. The deer is not actually ducking the arrow, yet its dropping into a position to take off on a run very quickly. Just seems to look like they are ducking on purpose knowing that an arrow is coming at them. I personally feel it is more common on spooky deer that are on alert. Pay attention to the body language of the deer and you can pick up on some signs on how comfortable the deer is before the shot. They just hear an odd noise, slight movement etc and spook. One thing I learned along time ago is this was common when a deer was looking towards me when I shot. Cause me many misses. I had a guy preach to me once that all the deer in the area I hunt drop when you shoot, will happen everytime he said. I was younger and newer at bowhunting way back then so I took his bad advice and aimed lower. I remember the first deer I shot there. It dropped and the shot was good. Then the next one never dropped and yep you got it, spined him. Ever since I paid more attention try to read the deer. No one said this sport was easy. alot happens all at once and sometimes in seconds that deer pops out, nerves go haywire. But patience is good practice I think. Not always is the first shot the best shot either. I stoppped the hurry up and shoot scenario and slowed down payed attention to how the deer acts and then decide on the when to pull the trigger. Doesnt always play out right but success rates for me anyways has gone up.

[fasteddie]

I have made the mistake of expecting a deer to drop its body to spring away only to have them not react and do the expected . They don't always follow the deer rules !

[WNYBuckHunter]

Try to shoot right for the heart, about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom, that way if it does drop, youll still double or single lung it depending on the angle.

A few years back I had one drop on me, and I ended up hitting her right in the back strap. She lived.

[dirt_a_KISS]

thanks guys, now i know what to expect this weekend when i go out. Hopefully i get the one i been waiting for. Guy this weekend told me he seen him walk an old logging road!!

[Doc]

I once performed an interesting experiment regarding reaction times. I had a large piece of cardboard with a target on it mounted on a slide wire. Off to the side behind a shed, I had my youngest son (about 15 at the time) with a string tied from his belt to the target. He couldn't see when I was going to shoot because he was behind the shed. The instruction was to get into a set position and as soon as he heard the bow, he was to take off as fast as he could. I was shooting at 20 yards.

It was no contest .... the arrow lost everytime. What we found out was that he could consistantly move that target 1 foot .... every time. That's human reaction time, not the reflexes of a deer. I didn't get into all the calculations of arrow speed and all that, but that little experiment proved to me that there is no beating a deer's reflexes if he decides to bug out at the sound of a bow. I have to admit that I really didn't expect that he could move that target that far with a 20 yard shot. Also, keep in mind that my son was acting at a disadvantage because he had to move forward. As has already been pointed out the "jumping the string syndrome" really involves a body drop as the deer loads up their legs for that initial bound away. So they have gravity working for them. They have not invented a bow that will shoot an arrow fast enough to counter-act that kind of thing.

As has already been mentioned, success has everthing to do with the demeanor of the deer. A relaxed, calm deer will offer that little delay necessary to get the arrow there in the spot you are aiming at.

[erussell]

From what ive read this is a problem for the 18 - 25 yrd shots. Under, the shot is to fast for the deer to react fast enough to get out of the way. And over, unless you have a very noisy bow the shot is quite enough that it doesnt seem to bother the deer at all. Or so Ive read.

[G-Man]

I've heard and read the same thing (whitetail visions (barry wensel) had this in a video years ago) 18-32 yards aim low (lower 1/3 of the body). closer and farther the seem not to react to shot. Deer can drop its entire body height in 1/10 of a second About 16-20 inches. Amazing reaction time and the first thing it does is drop straight down. so even though it seems its running rt or lft its' actually straight down first...

[tjm08803]

Sort of funny how it plays out sometimes. The deer is not actually ducking the arrow, yet its dropping into a position to take off on a run very quickly. Just seems to look like they are ducking on purpose knowing that an arrow is coming at them. I personally feel it is more common on spooky deer that are on alert. Pay attention to the body language of the deer and you can pick up on some signs on how comfortable the deer is before the shot. They just hear an odd noise, slight movement etc and spook. One thing I learned along time ago is this was common when a deer was looking towards me when I shot. Cause me many misses. I had a guy preach to me once that all the deer in the area I hunt drop when you shoot, will happen everytime he said. I was younger and newer at bowhunting way back then so I took his bad advice and aimed lower. I remember the first deer I shot there. It dropped and the shot was good. Then the next one never dropped and yep you got it, spined him. Ever since I paid more attention try to read the deer. No one said this sport was easy. alot happens all at once and sometimes in seconds that deer pops out, nerves go haywire. But patience is good practice I think. Not always is the first shot the best shot either. I stoppped the hurry up and shoot scenario and slowed down payed attention to how the deer acts and then decide on the when to pull the trigger. Doesnt always play out right but success rates for me anyways has gone up.

lol I dont really understand what you are saying here. If you started to aim lower and the first deer dropped, you smoked him, which is understandable. But then you say you also aimed lower on the second one, it didnt drop, and you spined him? you should of shot under him...

My motto: "aim low miss low". you cant kill a deer if you hit him high (unless you catch a break with the spine shot). You can however smoke a deer with a low shot. Reading body language is also very important.

CALM DEER:

15-25: middle lung

25-35: heart

35-45: anywhere from belly line to heart

NERVOUS DEER:

15-25: heart

25-35: belly line

35-45: a few inches below belly line

And there are still more factors beside calm vs nervous. For example, did you stop them with your mouth vs you didnt stop them with your mouth. If you stop them with your mouth, they basically upgrade to a nervous deer because their level of alertness and reaction time is unbelieveable

Anyone else agree with this?

Edited October 3, 2012 by tjm08803

[apoallo]

lol I dont really understand what you are saying here. If you started to aim lower and the first deer dropped, you smoked him, which is understandable. But then you say you also aimed lower on the second one, it didnt drop, and you spined him? you should of shot under him...

My motto: "aim low miss low". you cant kill a deer if you hit him high (unless you catch a break with the spine shot). You can however smoke a deer with a low shot. Reading body language is also very important.

CALM DEER:

15-25: middle lung

25-35: heart

35-45: anywhere from belly line to heart

NERVOUS DEER:

15-25: heart

25-35: belly line

35-45: a few inches below belly line

And there are still more factors beside calm vs nervous. For example, did you stop them with your mouth vs you didnt stop them with your mouth. If you stop them with your mouth, they basically upgrade to a nervous deer because their level of alertness and reaction time is unbelieveable

Anyone else agree with this?

I do agree. If you are sitting against a rock wall and the deer walking by didnt notice you he or she is probably relatively calm and not on alert, however if you make that grunt to stop that deer its alertness becomes higher and looks right at the source of that noise. at this time once the deer hears the bow release its already ready to drop because you alerted her to you.. I like to practice shooting still and moving targets. you can wire a bow target on a clothes line with a good backdrop and have your son, wife friend etc.. pull the clothes line

[erussell]

Deer are so fast Ive had them duck bullets before!!! Thats my story and im sticking to it.

[bkln]

That's the Matrix deer I'm talking about.....dodge this .270... biatch...LOL...

[wdswtr]

tjm good observation on your part, bad choice of misguided wording on mine. I hit that deer way way low in the chest and I think all chest bone where rib cage all meets. Never recovered. I would also say that a spine shot is not catching a break, I would much rather miss than see that ever again. Yep early years of bowhunting I managed that one too. Nothing to be proud of and hope to never see the suffering that pursues till you put it out of its misery. My biggest suggestion like I already said is learning body language for tell tale signs of a deer on a nervous alert stage. I have also mouthed called to stop deer on ocassion and never gave it any thought as to it alerting them to a nervous state either. Good info there. I have passed on shots after stopping them due to them pin pointing me by looking at me. A shot I dont condone either. I also have had great success stopping them with my mouth. So I would still say much would depend on the way the deer is acting prior to trying to stop them. With bowhunting for 20 plus years and filling many bow tags over that time I guess the "pressure" of I just got to get one with my bow took second stage to patience and paying more attention to making the best shot I possibly can. Still no one is perfect and made a bad shot or two over the years, just like to be the best I possibly can and make the best choice in shots I can for utmost due respect to the animals I hunt. I just not a fan of taking the chance of aiming low on a nervous deer in hopes of putting it down quickly when there is that chance of wounding a deer.

Edited October 3, 2012 by wdswtr

[Doc]

The best way that I have come up with for stopping a deer is a few drops of any kind of deer urine on the trail. I have never been a fan of making noises to stop them. It may work once in a while, but it does put them "on alert" 100% of the time. And that brings the string-jumping into play.

Trying to guess how much they will drop also seems like a lot of wishful thinking. I have seen plenty of deer that didn't even move until the arrow went through them. Aiming at the lower third of the deer is probably a good general practice in that it is a deadly area if they don't move. And by the way, a deer's first reaction to the shot is not necessarily straight down. They are usually twisting into a turn at the same time and that causes some fore and aft movement.

One thing I have noticed is that the bigger the deer, the slower their reactions. Probably has to do with inertia, or maybe a slightly reduced reaction time.