All about electric cars......

[Doc]

I would like some specific facts about electric cars that are supposed to be the salvation of our planet. It is every difficult to find actual owners of electric vehicles to get credible (and honest) answers to these questions. The following are questions that the proponents of electric cars are not really explaining, and yet we are being pushed very hard in the direction of electricity being taughted as the perfect fuel for all things in the future. I am just curious about hearing the rest of the story.

1......How long does it take the batteries to charge compared to filling up a gas tank?

2.....How long do the batteries last before they have to be replaced?

3.....If you are on the road and your battery is starting to badly run low, where do you go other than home to re-charge? I did see a recharging station at a mall quite a ways from home, but that is the only one that I have ever seen.

4.....What is the cost of a new battery when the old one finally dies?

5.....What is the real relative impact to the planet in terms of producing the cars and the batteries when compared to fossil fueled vehicles?

6.....What will be the real impact to our electric grid system when all cars are powered by electricity?

7.....If you get caught in a blizzard and have to spend hours stuck in a snow bank awaiting rescue, how long will the battery keep you warm and alive? 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Doc

[BizCT]

The Math just doesn't add up for me. If an EV is say $20K more than an equivalent gas car. Even if gas is $5/gallon instead of $2/gallon, let's say $5/gallon at 20mpg x 10K miles you need 500 gallons of gas per year of $2,500. So it would take you 8 years to break even on the extra $20K? but even more when you factor the additional costs of electric, charger, repairs, and maybe most importantly the time it takes to charge it all the time?

What am I missing?

[Jeremy K]

70 percent more pollution before even leaving the assembly plant compared to a ICE. Thankfully electricity grows on trees and doesn't produce any pollution to generate or we would really be in trouble. 

[Robhuntandfish]

There was a recent local demonstration of electric buses in the area for school districts. They had to tow all the buses back as they didn't have enough juice to get back.

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[cachemoney]

The new F150 Lightning starts out pretty competetive price wise from what I have seen, around 40 for the base model. 

At that price. it seems like a pretty good option for my next truck in 4/5 years.

I wonder if people were as resistant  about technology  when the first cars came out. Were there discussions about gas/oil being a pollutant or how much it will cost ?

[Robhuntandfish]

The new F150 Lightning starts out pretty competetive price wise from what I have seen, around 40 for the base model. 
At that price. it seems like a pretty good option for my next truck in 4/5 years.
I wonder if people were as resistant  about technology  when the first cars came out. Were there discussions about gas/oil being a pollutant or how much it will cost ?

I think the big issue is a lot of it is being mandated and not a product of the economy. If it truly is better and affordable the economy will take care of it itself by increased demand for a good product. But when it's forced by govt mandate with a lot of unproven factors it doesn't take as well. I do think eventually it will be the option and I am all for it. Once the tech catches up.

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[Jeremy K]

33 minutes ago, cachemoney said:

The new F150 Lightning starts out pretty competetive price wise from what I have seen, around 40 for the base model. 

At that price. it seems like a pretty good option for my next truck in 4/5 years.

I wonder if people were as resistant  about technology  when the first cars came out. Were there discussions about gas/oil being a pollutant or how much it will cost ?

And they come with a tesla charger adapter

[DirtTime]

I hear those electric Hot Wheels can make toast and cook a pizza too.

[wolc123]

The folks pushing the electric cars aren’t math majors.  

[SpacemanSpiff]

1 hour ago, Robhuntandfish said:

There was a recent local demonstration of electric buses in the area for school districts. They had to tow all the buses back as they didn't have enough juice to get back.

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk
 

Hahaha im still laughing. Thanks for the laugh. 

[BizCT]

The new F150 Lightning starts out pretty competetive price wise from what I have seen, around 40 for the base model. 
At that price. it seems like a pretty good option for my next truck in 4/5 years.
I wonder if people were as resistant  about technology  when the first cars came out. Were there discussions about gas/oil being a pollutant or how much it will cost ?

$40K? I saw like $75K-$90K


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[cachemoney]

8 minutes ago, BizCT said:

$40K? I saw like $75K-$90K


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For your version maybe, the "Pro" base model starts at 39,974. Thats more my speed.

It has a smaller battery than the XLT model, but not a lot of difference besides that.

[rob-c]

This is a good read on the electric trucks, if one is going to use their truck as a truck,  well I’m not sold on them yet . 
https://tfltruck.com/2020/01/electric-truck-towing-battery-weight-analysis/

Edited June 15, 2022 by rob-c

[G-Man]

2 hours ago, cachemoney said:

The new F150 Lightning starts out pretty competetive price wise from what I have seen, around 40 for the base model. 

At that price. it seems like a pretty good option for my next truck in 4/5 years.

I wonder if people were as resistant  about technology  when the first cars came out. Were there discussions about gas/oil being a pollutant or how much it will cost ?

Electric have been around for years ( thimas edison made and electric vehicle)they are impractical in the north with cold and reduced battery life. 

[G-Man]

8 minutes ago, rob-c said:

This is a good read on the electric trucks, if one is going to use their truck as a truck,  well I’m not sold on them yet . 
https://tfltruck.com/2020/01/electric-truck-towing-battery-weight-analysis/

Had a friend that made a chevy s 10 electric  at the time it was only one working in electric car club in wny the wholw bed was marine batteries covered with a top to make bed 1 ft deep on top if batteries got 300 miles on charge and would get a 25 mile bump from when it drained and bounced back..  was a fun project he said but took day to charge fully.

[Dinsdale]

A Tesla Model Y dual motor is very sporty off the line, and a hoot to drive. Had a chance to drive one a few times now.

I’m not about to trade my slower GR86 or Boxster for one, but its a great drive.

Fair amount of places to charge around here in store lots, but cost and long term with a battery is still a non starter for me.

[Larry]

The power grid is over 100 years old. There are about 11.3 million cars in NY if we switched all those cars to electric it would crash the grid. We are replacing the best ways to make power to wind and solar. Remember solar only works at best 50% of the time and is only 15% efficient. Wind is only about 25% efficient.

Are climate Czar has said we can go to 0 carbon emissions and it won't change anything but we're going to do it anyway.

[G-Man]

5 minutes ago, Larry said:

The power grid is over 100 years old. There are about 11.3 million cars in NY if we switched all those cars to electric it would crash the grid. We are replacing the best ways to make power to wind and solar. Remember solar only works at best 50% of the time and is only 15% efficient. Wind is only about 25% efficient.

Are climate Czar has said we can go to 0 carbon emissions and it won't change anything but we're going to do it anyway.

Follow the money

[DoubleDose]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

I would like some specific facts about electric cars that are supposed to be the salvation of our planet. It is every difficult to find actual owners of electric vehicles to get credible (and honest) answers to these questions. The following are questions that the proponents of electric cars are not really explaining, and yet we are being pushed very hard in the direction of electricity being taughted as the perfect fuel for all things in the future. I am just curious about hearing the rest of the story.

1......How long does it take the batteries to charge compared to filling up a gas tank?

2.....How long do the batteries last before they have to be replaced?

3.....If you are on the road and your battery is starting to badly run low, where do you go other than home to re-charge? I did see a recharging station at a mall quite a ways from home, but that is the only one that I have ever seen.

4.....What is the cost of a new battery when the old one finally dies?

5.....What is the real relative impact to the planet in terms of producing the cars and the batteries when compared to fossil fueled vehicles?

6.....What will be the real impact to our electric grid system when all cars are powered by electricity?

7.....If you get caught in a blizzard and have to spend hours stuck in a snow bank awaiting rescue, how long will the battery keep you warm and alive? 

There was recently a Tesla on YouTube where the owner blew it up.  It needed a new battery and the cost was about $20K!!!!  Appreciate too that the battery technology is changing/advancing.  It's possible that when your vehicle needs new batteries it will be unavailable old technology (think Freon/R12 refrigerant) or the new technology will not retrofit to your vehicle.  This is another point not being discussed.

[bugsNbows]

Hearing that as more electric vehicles hit the road, less gas will be used. That means less tax revenue from gas taxes. We would then likely see a mileage tax imposed. No thanks, I’ll pass. 

[cdbing]

I do not have 1st hand knowledge, but will try to provide some generic answers to the questions posed, based on looking into EVs a little. Not trying to convince anyone to go electric or not....and also not get long-winded.

1. Takes very long to charge versus filling a gas tank. Slow charge at home will take hours, and fast charge depends on state of charge, charging speed, etc, but let's say 40 mins for argument sake.

2. Warranty on batteries is typ. 8 yrs, 100k miles @ 70 % residual capacity, but batteries can last much longer depends on chemistry and how they are used/maintained. Let's say net $20k to replace a battery for argument. Cost varies by size, chemistry, etc. And used batteries have some resale value.

3. Not enough. More fast chargers are being added and Tesla is supposed to open their fast chargers to others.... someday.

4 unknown, but there are environmental, social, economic impacts....like most things mined, manufactured, etc.

5&6 unknown


7 depends on state of charge of battery, but conceivably you can ration heat long enough for a person to succumb from dehydration rather than freezing.

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[Just Lucky]

I am around ev every day. From what I am seeing, they are as dependable as any vehicle on the road. I have replaced 1 high voltage battery, under manufacturer warranty in 3 years on an EV. I have replaced 2 high voltage batteries on hybrids since 2011. Both also under manufacturer warranty. 

Biggest failures seem to be relay packs. There is alot of voltage/amps going through those, and fail safes installed for safety purposes.  Again those repairs also under manufacturer warranty. 

The infrastructure for ev is at least 10 years behind. That is the biggest problem with these vehicles. No one has a viable plan to fix that.

As far as expense,  EV dealerships are being required to have chargers installed at the facilities, and available free of charge to consumers.  Some manufacturers are also, including with the cost of the vehicle, a charging station at the customers residence. 

As for mining, no one really cares about the environment unless it is in their backyard. Out of site, out of mind. People did not care where lithium  came from  until EV started becoming popular.  Prior to the EV push we thought of it as good battery technology. 

[BizCT]

For your version maybe, the "Pro" base model starts at 39,974. Thats more my speed.
It has a smaller battery than the XLT model, but not a lot of difference besides that.

Ok but then what is that comparable in gas. That was the point I was trying to figure out. If every EV is $15-20K more than the comparable gas than it doesn’t pay long term


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[BizCT]

Btw, I have a Tesla charger if anyone wants to buy it


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[Grouse]

The mileage figures they claim are not real world numbers either.  Drive with a full load in an EV truck and your mileage suffers a lot.  Drive 75 MPH on the interstate and the mileage drops considerably, especially if you are bucking a headwind.  Drive in the mountains and the mileage suffers a lot.

In the real world, EV mileage is not nearly what it's cracked up to be.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Grouse