Help make NY a higher quality deer state

[Santamour123]

I have been on countless hunting forums, and it is all the same.  The argument on AR's.  Those in favor of it say it is the answer to all.  Those opposed feel it is a waste.  My opinion is you are both wrong.  I just like most other hunters would love to have larger bucks running around.  One of the biggest impovments could be made by changing season dates.  Espesially in the Northern zon.  Whitetail bucks are by no means dumb.  However they let their guard down a little 1 time during the year.  THE RUT.  If a buck come running a doe by a rifle hunter, he is either shot or hit or scared to death.  By making it archery season through the rut our age structure would increase automatically with not ading ang AR's.

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

Not everybody hunts with a bow! Why should we have to wait with a rifle.

[WNYBuckHunter]

See, this isnt necessarily true either. Ever notice that many big bucks are taken during late season? Deer become easier to pattern after the rut, when they are hitting the food sources to recover some of what they lost during the rut. In my opinion, you cant just move gun season to after the rut, you have to shorten it significantly as well. Most states that produce large numbers of big, mature bucks have very short gun seasons.

[outdoorstom]

I think part of the answer is to only allow 1 buck per hunter per season.

[Doc]

I'm sitting here trying to imagine the fire-storm that would ensue if the season were to be either moved away from the rut or shortened.  :    I don't think either thought is very realistic no matter how much merit they might have.

Doc

[phade]

Ohio. That's what we need....they are a great managed state as far as DNR.

Move gun season to Monday after T-day... run it for 9 or 11 non-consecutive days - Mon-Sun for first week, then one or two Sat/Sun following weekends.

OBR. No AR. Not a huge fan of OBR, but it can help. Only 5k or so hunters report two bucks killed in a season (don't bring in the reporting situation...I understand some may not report). Still, I think it would limit hunters to being VERY SURE of the tag being filled.

I personally don't like the idea of not being able to take a buck with family during gun season if I've tagged during bow, but I guess I could deal. That's just a tough personal pill to swallow.

As mentioned, it'd be a cold day in hell here before this flies.

[Mr VJP]

The AR issue, when boiled down to it's core, is an attempt to allow more hunters to bag big bucks.  There are plenty of big bucks out there now, but you need to have a high level of knowledge and skill to bag them consistently.  That is something to strive for and be proud of.  It also gets well deserved praise.

If the AR issue is forced, bagging a big buck becomes something more hunters can do based on luck.  It will actually dilute the pride one can feel when that buck of a lifetime is harvested.  The accomplishment will no longer be seen as a meritorious event and looked upon more as commonplace.

I see that as detrimental to the core traditions and mystique of deer hunting and hope it doesn't ever come to that.

[gundeck]

Although I love the idea of larger buck and bigger racks, most people would argue that this hurts the sport in two way.  Most people who don't hunt, but are not opposed to hunting, see the need because it helps keep the population down which reduces auto incidents and reduces crop / property damage.  By implementing antler restrictions, you reduce the number of younger deer which are taken.  These are the very deer most likely to panic on the road or wander into people's gardens.

The other factor is that gives the perception that hunting is "all about the trophy".  True or not, people will use that argument.

Just food for thought.

[biggamefish]

  I don't understand why we have to put a bog buck as the pride of hunting is it nice yes but being out there and enjoying the field is what it is about.  Then enjoying a STEAK dinner with your hunting buddies.  Can't eat the antlers.  I agree with VJP there are some huge bucks running around I see pics of that every year people just have to outsmart them.  If there were a ton of them around they would loose their mystic releavence to the hunter.

[ADKSasquatch]

I think part of the answer is to only allow 1 buck per hunter per season.

totally agree.  I grew up in PA where there are 2xs the deer.  A LOT more bucks, and better quality bucks.  You bought a license which got you a buck tag you could fill in rifle season.  Then if you bought a muzzleloader or archery license, all it did was lengthen your season.  Buying doe tags were a seprate issue done on county basis and set numbers.  I'd like to see that system here in NY.

[Daveboone]

In NY you can legally take 3 bucks- one each for archery, muzzleloading and regular season, as well as whatever doe tags you get.

Make the law one antlered buck a season. As we all know, most bucks are taken by the minority of the hunters. Limit the game hogs (yes, you can be a hog within your limits) and the number of bucks; including older bucks, will also increase. Most important to me is to be able to be out hunting as long a season as possible: ensuring the most opportunites in different weather. I want a buck...but I want to eat it.That is what we hunt for, isnt it? There was never an emphasis on huge racks until the media started pushing it. Just having bigger racks does not mean you have better "quality". Define quality. Are you saying that people with bigger feet...if that is what you are measuring...are better people?

For what it is worth, I have a pretty good collection of what would be considered "quality" deer. They came from hard work. But I still am happy to fill my freezer and will prefer to eat an 18 month old 6 pt. over a 3 1/2 hear old gnarly point.

[fasteddie]

Dave --- I believe you are only entitled to 2 (two) bucks per season in NY . You get a Buck tag for gun season and an Either / Or for Bow/Mz . If you shoot a buck during archery season , you can't during ML season .

[Daveboone]

Dave --- I believe you are only entitled to 2 (two) bucks per season in NY . You get a Buck tag for gun season and an Either / Or for Bow/Mz . If you shoot a buck during archery season , you can't during ML season .

Yo, Fast Eddie:

I stand corrected on the #s. It has been a long time since I have both bow and muzzleloaded, and then was happy with a buck a year. Bowhunters and muzzleloaders recieve one either/or tag, and one antlerless tag, making it a total of 2 bucks. Still, Limit to one and twice the hunters potentially can get bucks, and the 2nd buck regardless has a chance to get bigger. The hunter still has opportunities to get more venison.

[Larry]

As for changing the start of the gun season till after the rut 1^st you would have to define the RUT and what part of the rut you are talking about. Those of us who bow hunt allot all know the best time to be In the wood is after NOV 1^st with the second week being the one of the best weeks. So the rut is pretty much over when the gun season starts in the southern zone. As for the northern zone I just read a report on another thread that said the RUT in the northern zone goes on for a 120 days so when do you start the gun season? Then if you believe what’s in Deer & Deer Hunting and Charlie A. you would have to change the start of the gun season every year. As for the 2 buck thing only about 5% of the hunters kill 2 bucks on average per year. But I have a plan that everyone will like. It would guarantee bigger and more bucks and more deer.

Hey here’s away to have more deer and bigger bucks, with no AR’s. Adopt a 1 on 2 off policy we hunt 1 year and then no hunting for 2 years. On the year we hunt we have a bag limit of 4 bucks and 6 doe’s this should satisfy the big buck crowd; and the I’m not seeing any deer crowd. There would be plenty of bucks and plenty of deer.

[fasteddie]

Larry --- That's a sure way to lose a lot of hunters !

[erussell]

Limit the game hogs (yes, you can be a hog within your limits) and the number of bucks; including older bucks, will also increase.

If I have 5 tags to legally kill deer with and I kill 5 deer I am now a game hog? Why not just a better hunter than your average weekend warrior who kills there 1 deer a yr and spends the rest of the yr in front of the TV bitching about me killing all the deer instead of getting off his fat arse and getting into the woods and making his own luck. I always find it funny how the better hunters are always berated and called game hogs because other hunters have no idea how to hunt or are to stubborn to move to another area.

[CNYlungbuster]

Limit the game hogs (yes, you can be a hog within your limits) and the number of bucks; including older bucks, will also increase.

If I have 5 tags to legally kill deer with and I kill 5 deer I am now a game hog? Why not just a better hunter than your average weekend warrior who kills there 1 deer a yr and spends the rest of the yr in front of the TV bitching about me killing all the deer instead of getting off his fat arse and getting into the woods and making his own luck. I always find it funny how the better hunters are always berated and called game hogs because other hunters have no idea how to hunt or are to stubborn to move to another area.

Here here we kill a good number of deer every year the majority of them being doe's and every year it seems that there is more than before.  As long as I got tags for them (and thier 2.5 for a buck) I'm shooting.  I'm out of venison we eat a lot of it, ate 5 last year.  I gave a few away last year because I thought 5 would be enough guess I was wrong lol. 

I forgot to add if by some chance things do change to only one buck I would not be opposed of it, just another way to protect bucks.  As of right now though if I can I'll shoot two bucks this year. 

CNY

[Husker5]

The AR issue, when boiled down to it's core, is an attempt to allow more hunters to bag big bucks.  There are plenty of big bucks out there now, but you need to have a high level of knowledge and skill to bag them consistently.  That is something to strive for and be proud of.  It also gets well deserved praise.

If the AR issue is forced, bagging a big buck becomes something more hunters can do based on luck.  It will actually dilute the pride one can feel when that buck of a lifetime is harvested.  The accomplishment will no longer be seen as a meritorious event and looked upon more as commonplace.

I see that as detrimental to the core traditions and mystique of deer hunting and hope it doesn't ever come to that.

I completely agree!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Perfectly put VJP!!!

[sits in trees]

I have been on countless hunting forums, and it is all the same.  The argument on AR's.  Those in favor of it say it is the answer to all.  Those opposed feel it is a waste.  My opinion is you are both wrong.  I just like most other hunters would love to have larger bucks running around.  One of the biggest impovments could be made by changing season dates.  Espesially in the Northern zon.  Whitetail bucks are by no means dumb.  However they let their guard down a little 1 time during the year.  THE RUT.  If a buck come running a doe by a rifle hunter, he is either shot or hit or scared to death.  By making it archery season through the rut our age structure would increase automatically with not ading ang AR's.

never gonna happen, gun hunters rule by a huge majority and besides i live in dmu 3j thats had antler restritions in place for 5 years or so now, this used to be the land of the spike buck but thats all change now, me and the local hunters i talk to see 8 pointers every year now and i had a 10 point on one of my trail cams just last week. the racks are back and AR "WORKS"!!

[sits in trees]

The AR issue, when boiled down to it's core, is an attempt to allow more hunters to bag big bucks.  There are plenty of big bucks out there now, but you need to have a high level of knowledge and skill to bag them consistently.  That is something to strive for and be proud of.  It also gets well deserved praise.

If the AR issue is forced, bagging a big buck becomes something more hunters can do based on luck.  It will actually dilute the pride one can feel when that buck of a lifetime is harvested.  The accomplishment will no longer be seen as a meritorious event and looked upon more as commonplace.

I see that as detrimental to the core traditions and mystique of deer hunting and hope it doesn't ever come to that.

i've heard this old song and dance that you just have to find the big bucks, kinda like the c'mere deer commercials that somehow the biggins are there but no one can seem to find them, and by striving as you put it or by using c'mere deer or some special call or lure you will surely find the big ones.  if there are no big bucks in an area there are no big bucks, plain n simple! i can put you in areas of this state where all your striving and high level of knowledge will get you nothing more than a 4 point my freind ;D  and thats if your real lucky.

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

My first year 14 year old son sure does not a restriction.

Maybe in the southern parts of the state where there are small woodlots ok. But where I live where it is 10-20 miles in between roads and that is the smaller of the woods you can hunt hard all year to see one buck. I certainly will not pass because he is not "OUTDOOR CHANNEL WORTHY"

[sits in trees]

My first year 14 year old son sure does not a restriction.

Maybe in the southern parts of the state where there are small woodlots ok. But where I live where it is 10-20 miles in between roads and that is the smaller of the woods you can hunt hard all year to see one buck. I certainly will not pass because he is not "OUTDOOR CHANNEL WORTHY"

i have hunted the Adirondacks and northern Greene counties for years and i would surely shoot any deer i saw knowing that it might well be the only deer i saw for the season. every area of the state is differant, some areas will always have low numbers and forget about big bucks, thats just the way it is. but alot of areas have the potential for improvement.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/09deerrpt.pdf

I was reviewing the 2009 reports and a few thing struck me.

the age structure of the bucks taken are pretty much the same throughout the state regions.

the rack structure is also pretty much the same.

the bucks per square mile taken seems low where I would expect it...ADKs.

I would love to see these graphs on age structute for each WMU

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Sits...I do have to disagree with you on one thing...well amybe more than one...lol

Those remote areas of Ny that are so difficult to hunt and where sighting are so low have the ability to produce some of the largest buck in the state.