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Would you vote to make it legal?


Five Seasons

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On 9/20/2022 at 6:36 PM, Chef said:


This is a joke, I am not handing 3k to someone I don’t know. You keep changing the game. Because you don’t even own this deer. For all we know this deer won’t even be in the pen. Like I said I will give the money to a neutral party to hold


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It's the oldest scam in the book ,the place only charges 2k, you give him 3 and he makes a grand ...

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I keep trying to come up with comparisons to describe this feud...

my latest thought.... Four Seasons is like the chef from a Michelin rated restaurant who is shitting on the burgers cooked at the mom and pop diner because they aren't made with organic wagyu beef... of course his burger is better but he can't get it through his thick scull that people actually eat/enjoy the burger from the mom & pop diner

sure "the industry" may use put that waygu burger on the cover of their magazines, cookbooks and websites to drive advertising so he argues it drives the industry... but dude your bucks are the top .0001%... how can an industry that has a historical culture of being middle class be driven by high dollar products that the average deer hunter cant afford?

F150s and Toyota Corollas not Lambos and Rolls Royces are the best selling vehicles in America and drive the industry.... I'll take my $40k F150 20" Spread 8 Point every time over that Lambo with a $900 oil change 215" Monster buck 

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17 hours ago, mowin said:

Doesn't matter. Livestock is livestock. People make money from selling, breeding cattle, that's ok, but deer inst?  No, people are not spending money to hunt cattle, but they still make money from the sale.  I see no difference.  

 

that was my point. He said people don't hunt farms. I was proving that by definition this "preserve" is a farm. We're not in disagreement. I've never been against high fence hunting at all. It's not for me and our resident member could handle the subject a heck of a lot better than he does, but for me it's not hunting, it's grocery shopping on a farm. 

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1 hour ago, ridgerunner88 said:

I keep trying to come up with comparisons to describe this feud...

my latest thought.... Four Seasons is like the chef from a Michelin rated restaurant who is shitting on the burgers cooked at the mom and pop diner because they aren't made with organic wagyu beef... of course his burger is better but he can't get it through his thick scull that people actually eat/enjoy the burger from the mom & pop diner

sure "the industry" may use put that waygu burger on the cover of their magazines, cookbooks and websites to drive advertising so he argues it drives the industry... but dude your bucks are the top .0001%... how can an industry that has a historical culture of being middle class be driven by high dollar products that the average deer hunter cant afford?

F150s and Toyota Corollas not Lambos and Rolls Royces are the best selling vehicles in America and drive the industry.... I'll take my $40k F150 20" Spread 8 Point every time over that Lambo with a $900 oil change 215" Monster buck 

woah woah woah. Where did you find a truck for $40K??? don't burry the lead here! haha

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13 hours ago, ridgerunner88 said:

I keep trying to come up with comparisons to describe this feud...

my latest thought.... Four Seasons is like the chef from a Michelin rated restaurant who is shitting on the burgers cooked at the mom and pop diner because they aren't made with organic wagyu beef... of course his burger is better but he can't get it through his thick scull that people actually eat/enjoy the burger from the mom & pop diner

sure "the industry" may use put that waygu burger on the cover of their magazines, cookbooks and websites to drive advertising so he argues it drives the industry... but dude your bucks are the top .0001%... how can an industry that has a historical culture of being middle class be driven by high dollar products that the average deer hunter cant afford?

F150s and Toyota Corollas not Lambos and Rolls Royces are the best selling vehicles in America and drive the industry.... I'll take my $40k F150 20" Spread 8 Point every time over that Lambo with a $900 oil change 215" Monster buck 

See even you use a bigger buck to try and drive your point…. A 20 inch 8pt buck..  so tell how many of those have you takin?  Notice how you didn’t say crotch horn or basket 6?   It’s always the bigger bucks used as the driver. 

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12 hours ago, Belo said:

that was my point. He said people don't hunt farms. I was proving that by definition this "preserve" is a farm. We're not in disagreement. I've never been against high fence hunting at all. It's not for me and our resident member could handle the subject a heck of a lot better than he does, but for me it's not hunting, it's grocery shopping on a farm. 

Well I guess if man feeds any kind of animal any kind of feed it could be called farming. In the real world on a “Farm” the pens are usually 1 acre in size with very little cover and farms have a class A license that allows them to sell deer alive. A preserve is made up of one big pen with piles of cover and they have a class B license that allows them to move dead deer off the property but nothing alive.   So in the real world there is a big difference.  Definition of something can be stretched to meet someone’s agenda if they so had one. 

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Well I guess if man feeds any kind of animal any kind of feed it could be called farming. In the real world on a “Farm” the pens are usually 1 acre in size with very little cover and farms have a class A license that allows them to sell deer alive. A preserve is made up of one big pen with piles of cover and they have a class B license that allows them to move dead deer off the property but nothing alive.   So in the real world there is a big difference.  Definition of something can be stretched to meet someone’s agenda if they so had one. 

So should we call the pen a slaughter house not a farm


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On 9/23/2022 at 10:10 PM, Four Seasons said:

Well I guess if man feeds any kind of animal any kind of feed it could be called farming. In the real world on a “Farm” the pens are usually 1 acre in size with very little cover and farms have a class A license that allows them to sell deer alive. A preserve is made up of one big pen with piles of cover and they have a class B license that allows them to move dead deer off the property but nothing alive.   So in the real world there is a big difference.  Definition of something can be stretched to meet someone’s agenda if they so had one. 

so in the real world, are you saying that you shouldn't be able to shoot coyotes and bear out of season without a tag because it's not endangering your livestock? Or do you just like to have your cake and eat it to?

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12 hours ago, Belo said:

so in the real world, are you saying that you shouldn't be able to shoot coyotes and bear out of season without a tag because it's not endangering your livestock? Or do you just like to have your cake and eat it to?

In the real world Any farmer that owns livestock on their private property have the right to protect that livestock from any threat from any vermin be it wild bear or tame house dog. Not sure how you would think that those things would not be considered endangering someone’s livestock but I guess someone that does not have 100’s of 1000’s at stake may not.  Maybe that’s why rules and laws were made.   Not that it would stop me from protecting them regardless. 

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In the real world Any farmer that owns livestock on their private property have the right to protect that livestock from any threat from any vermin be it wild bear or tame house dog. Not sure how you would think that those things would not be considered endangering someone’s livestock but I guess someone that does not have 100’s of 1000’s at stake may not.  Maybe that’s why rules and laws were made.   Not that it would stop me from protecting them regardless. 

So once they are treated like livestock (not dealing with vermin and bear on their own) and doesn't that change them from being wild? So not like hunting wild game? Don't gets mad at me...I'm trying to follow along!


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8 hours ago, crappyice said:


So once they are treated like livestock (not dealing with vermin and bear on their own) and doesn't that change them from being wild? So not like hunting wild game? Don't gets mad at me...I'm trying to follow along!


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You think because an animal that does not have to deal with two animals makes them less wild? That’s pretty funny right there. And the facts are that many places that have hunting ranches deal with vermin year round…Hence the deer are still dealing with them…. It’s just that owners of said ranches get to deal with them at anytime on their terms. It’s that private property thing again 

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You think because an animal that does not have to deal with two animals makes them less wild? That’s pretty funny right there. And the facts are that many places that have hunting ranches deal with vermin year round…Hence the deer are still dealing with them…. It’s just that owners of said ranches get to deal with them at anytime on their terms. It’s that private property thing again 

I think it gives them a greater advantage than a wild deer would deal with ...plus the fence keeping all the other wild predators out.
Preserve deer are like the Martha Vineyard residents vs Florida residents dealing with illegal immigration! Hahha


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On 9/27/2022 at 7:49 AM, Four Seasons said:

You think because an animal that does not have to deal with two animals makes them less wild? That’s pretty funny right there. And the facts are that many places that have hunting ranches deal with vermin year round…Hence the deer are still dealing with them…. It’s just that owners of said ranches get to deal with them at anytime on their terms. It’s that private property thing again 

A hunting ranch is not a pen. And in NY (where this forum is centered around), maintaining a hunting ranch without fences does not make it legal to kill bear and yote out of season or without tags. It doesn't matter how many thousands you have at stake as the deer are not your property. This isn't europe where the deer are the king's deer. This is north america where the deer are the property of the people. Your deer are considered livestock with no rules because you entrap them within a fence and make money off of them. 

We've had this argument before and you've made it very clear multiple times over that you and your buddies break the law with crossbows and other game laws because they have these large tracts of land that they have invested in and so they feel justified to hunt with a crossbow and poach other non-deer species because they pay their taxes. You may feel however you want (how very liberal of you btw), but it doesn't in no court of law make any of it legal. Your property in North America doesn't give you any rights above and beyond a guy like Bill who hunts public land. He may be a "peasant" in your eyes because he doesn't have 1000 acres in his name, but in the eyes of the law he has just as much a right to that deer as you do should it cross lines. 

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On 9/27/2022 at 9:53 AM, Lawdwaz said:

I don’t like to think any animal is dumb.    I’d rather say they aren’t as savvy.   

fair point. There is no doubt that that it's generally easy to kill a bb because they get booted early from their mom and they just don't know sh!t about hunters and predators at their age. It's no different than dropping off a 7 year old and a 30 year old in the middle of the woods and see who survives longer.

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29 minutes ago, Belo said:

A hunting ranch is not a pen. And in NY (where this forum is centered around), maintaining a hunting ranch without fences does not make it legal to kill bear and yote out of season or without tags. It doesn't matter how many thousands you have at stake as the deer are not your property. This isn't europe where the deer are the king's deer. This is north america where the deer are the property of the people. Your deer are considered livestock with no rules because you entrap them within a fence and make money off of them. 

We've had this argument before and you've made it very clear multiple times over that you and your buddies break the law with crossbows and other game laws because they have these large tracts of land that they have invested in and so they feel justified to hunt with a crossbow and poach other non-deer species because they pay their taxes. You may feel however you want (how very liberal of you btw), but it doesn't in no court of law make any of it legal. Your property in North America doesn't give you any rights above and beyond a guy like Bill who hunts public land. He may be a "peasant" in your eyes because he doesn't have 1000 acres in his name, but in the eyes of the law he has just as much a right to that deer as you do should it cross lines. 

So your saying a high fenced piece of property can not carry the word Ranch?  Any yes on any high fence ranch….. and if you did your homework even a low fence ranch can kill any animal that is harming their animals in any manner. Of course those won’t be Whitetails, Regardless of time of year or type of animal. I know many a farmer that have blown the head off of Fido next door because their owner would not keep them under control and on their own property. And then watch them Sue Fido’s owners for the loss of income that Fido caused.                Next!

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9 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

So your saying a high fenced piece of property can not carry the word Ranch?  Any yes on any high fence ranch….. and if you did your homework even a low fence ranch can kill any animal that is harming their animals in any manner. Of course those won’t be Whitetails, Regardless of time of year or type of animal. I know many a farmer that have blown the head off of Fido next door because their owner would not keep them under control and on their own property. And then watch them Sue Fido’s owners for the loss of income that Fido caused.                Next!

do you feel like you won some argument? You didn't dispute anything I just said. Of course a farmer can protect his livestock. I said as much. Your high fenced deer are livestock, and you and your partners are farmers. Do you dispute that?

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5 hours ago, Belo said:

It's no different than dropping off a 7 year old and a 30 year old in the middle of the woods and see who survives longer.

I don't know man, my 9 year old can probably live off his boogers for a couple weeks... my younger brother who is 29 isn't lasting 3 days!

Edited by ridgerunner88
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7 hours ago, Belo said:

do you feel like you won some argument? You didn't dispute anything I just said. Of course a farmer can protect his livestock. I said as much. Your high fenced deer are livestock, and you and your partners are farmers. Do you dispute that?

My partners?  If your talking about the high fence hunting ranches I am invested in then no to the true word of farmers they are not. Two of them never have any leftover animals to even have to worry about feeding and the one with all the water and islands have very few make it thru. I guess you could call that one a farm if dropping a round bale in once a month farming Here at my place it’s 100% farming with no harvesting of animals. As far as livestock yes we get the write offs and all the other goodies and cattle or sheep farmer may get  The best of both worlds. 

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