Planting apple and pear trees

[Fletch]

Ok I have been saying I am going to do this for a while now but this spring it is going to happen!!

 

I need to cut out some trees and stuff to clear the spot I want to plant during the next couple of months.

 

I am thinking 8 to 12 trees. I am not planting little stuff I want to plant the biggest trees I can by hand prob 6' to 8' or more.

 

I wanted to do 2 to 4 pears and 6 to 8 apples.

 

I have read that Asia Chojuro Pears are late ripening and deer like a lot. Need some other candidates that deer like and that are not gone in August. What needs to pollinate what.....

 

I want to do a couple Honeycrisp for me, maybe Empire then need some other choices deer might like and be around in deer season. I have a bunch of crab apples in the backyard and all are dropped and eaten before Oct 1!!

 

I also have read that there are now some hardy American persimmons trees that may grow good in zone 5? Any input. I am 20 miles NW of Syracuse top half of zone 5.

 

 

My questions are:

 

Based on above what should my mix of trees be?

 

Who would be the best nurseries to buy from?

 

When should I order and what delivery dates for spring planting and when to actually plant?

 

What else will I need besides supplies for fencing off the whole orchard, or each tree, to keep deer off for a couple years?

 

Do you use tree tubes for trees that big?

 

Any input or advise would be appreciated.

[dbHunterNY]

yea I'd use tree tubes still.  you should spray (with non-residual stuff) early spring once things start to green up to kill all the weeds and competition.  you'll need to spray them too for bugs.  based on what you said there's a lot that cross pollinates with what you're wanting.  For example I like Macouns (for me) and they drop October during bow season.  Deer like apples highest in sugar content (as they overly ripen sugar content also goes up).  Doesn't really matter taste wise for tartness or sweetness, it's still an apple.  You don't have a ton of trees so pick ones that cross but drop at slightly different times.  they'll probably all be within an acre or so look at spacing in apple orchards.  when you prune an apple tree each branch should split into two and only two as you work out to the ends of the overall branch.  that way light can get into the center and produce more apples.  I don't think much of a selection is usually around until late spring.  You're ordering like $600 just in trees so any local nursery should be able and willing to help you out.  You should let them know sooner than later though.

 

I'm not at all an expert, so maybe someone else can chime in that's knows a bit more.  I've basically looked into doing the same thing at my house that you are doing.  It's just not high on the priority list yet.  still have to pick more of which I'm putting in, otherwise I'd give you my list.

[dbHunterNY]

I assumed you meant 4' of culvert pipe around the trunk of the tree when you say "tree tubes".  another thing they may not all live.

 

not nursery related but check this out.... other great stuff too.

 

http://www.midwestwhitetailproperties.com/latest/41

[Fletch]

Thanks for the input! Yes tubes to protect the trees from getting chewed on from critters.

[thphm]

The true tree tubes are not Pipe.They are sheet rolled into a round shape so you can take them off when you want to, they use zip or tie raps to keep them closed.Most better nurseries carry them. People use pvc type pipe because the have it or it is cheaper.But you have to cut them apart to get them off.

[dbHunterNY]

Who said anything about PVC?  that corrugated pipe that was used in the video seems to work..... I know others that have used the same with no issues.  once the tree gets big enough you can pull it off the trunk, unless you wait until there is very little room between the tree and pipe, then you might have to cut it again.  maybe that's what lurking means.

[Zag]

I planted a bunch of pink ladies and honeycrisp in my back yard in 2011. The tree's we 3 to 4 ft. Each cost me around $23 dollars. I didn't do any fencing ( I live in a highly populated deer area too) only because of the added cost. I've had to spray them all the time to keep them from nibbling them to much. This spring the pink ladies bared their first crop already. If you do buy that size trees allow a lot of time for planting. I had a dozen of them and had to dig out 3ft circumference holes to accommodate the root system. That alone took up the majority of my time. luckily I only lost one tree!! Some day ill be swimming in apples and I cant wait!

[dbHunterNY]

yea just one tree if pruned right years down the road will produce about 2600 apples (20 bushel, 110-130 apples per bushel).  a lot is lost to deer and fallen ground spoilage.

[growalot]

I learned a long time ago to dig the holes before the trees arrive...thank God we have the backhoe now what a time saver...I use culvert or drain pipe cut down one side  just for the rodent/Rabbit/woodchuck protection and welded wire for the deer,,,4-6ft ...6 is better

[G-Man]

Big thing is clear the grass from base of trees by hand especially before fall!, or mice / voles will build nest and girdle them. Tree tubes are nice but wasps like to build nests in them if you have bears this is big problem because they will tear them down to get at larvae and the tree as well, let alone cattapillers that eat leaves use them as cover from birds. if your planting bigger trees 3/4 to 1in plus diameter trunks I would use 2x3 or 2x4 welded fence 5ft tall. Cut and placed in a hoop 2ft in diameter and staked upright. Any shorter deer will eat tops of your trees ,must be welded as they will push against it to eat limbs. As where to get your trees a good local nursery will have hardy varieties there. For more info for late dropping look at the arbor association. You also want to find variants with small apples( market apples are bred for size, but a deer can't get a big apple in its mouth !! They have to step and crush them...they go for easiest food. Macoon, Winesap, juice type apples are usually smaller.compared to wolf river for exampl (5lb apples are possible) what would you try and eat and run If you were a deer?.

Edited January 4, 2014 by G-Man

[tda]

these people have been very helpful.

 

www.cumminsnursery.com/

[Fletch]

The flex pipe like in the video looks easy enough.

 

That is a good point about digging the holes ahead of time!

 

Yea I want to mix in some smaller size apple varieties.

 

Anyone around the central are have a good tree nursery to recommend?

[Fantail]

I ordered 10 'wild apple' trees from north forty, 2 year 24"+ transplants. I was to late for last years stock so I ordered early, sch delivery for early May. Planning for two sort of mini-orchards figure if 4 out of 5 make it into the following year that'll be good.

[thphm]

Buy yourself some chicken wire ( as Gro said 6' is better ) no need for ant type of pipe or tubes for the size trees you are getting.Chicken wire will stop just about anything from getting to the trunks and branches.I just make a 3' dia. circle and tie the ends together, use rebar to hold the wire in place,when it is time to weed wack I just lift the wire up do it and put it back down..Also have a circle of mulch around the trunks.

[growalot]

ooohhhhh.... just from experience...voles will have a field day with chicken wire and deep snow...they love apple bark and I had a buck get caught in chicken wire...ya... ripped up tree ....tore out rebar and then snaped the tree in half..after turning the wire into a ball of rebar and tree.... which is why I switched to the drain pipe cut down the side and the welded wire....

[Zag]

Agree I used drain pile as well, just cut a slit all the way down and bend on. Ill take them off in the spring until fall. Its worked perfect so far.

[Fantail]

Do you use anything such as pipe foam to protect the bark from the hard plastic?

[growalot]

no I just firmly push the pipe into the ground...I will be honest and say I have forgotten about a couple and the trees grow opening up the pipe and finally releasing it on their own with out my intervention...now thats not recommended by any means ...just pointing out that a tree can survive if it happens...the only thing you want to check and address is bugs...

[fu2lmao]

great thread, will be following

 

Anyone know if pear and apple trees can be planted in cow pastures?

[growalot]

I'm not sure what you mean...in working pasture land or old pastures that use to have cows?

 

I know there are certain trees farmers try to avoid having their cattle/livestock near or large amounts of leaf litter available,,,,This link is a good one for ppl in that is names several plants that can prove problematic to both live stock and deer...

 

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/toxicology/cyanide_poisoning/overview_of_cyanide_poisoning.html

 

[fu2lmao]

It's an active pasture. I let my neighbor use it for his cattle and he watches over my property. I have heard apples make cows intoxicated due to fermentation. There are a few crab apple trees scattered around the pastures.

[G-Man]

You can plant in active pasture but better have fencing up around them and staked well, cows will try and rub against the tree/and or stakes . you can do it and its a lot more work than most people would want to deal with.

[Fantail]

Well my trees arrived today from north40 by FedeX. They are packaged up nice got some extra storage tips from a friend at work with some property, because it'll be a few days until I can get them all in the ground.

[greenecounty]

It mightve been jumping the gun but I planted about 12 apple and pear trees the 2nd week of April.  I was planning on ordering from fastgrowingtrees.com but drove past home depot and saw the exact same trees i wanted but for $19 or 29 in buckets and about 1-1.25 inches thick in diameter (6-8ft tall)

 

I knew not to trust home depot but for that price it was worth it so i purchased 5ft tall welded wire fence and then planted

 

Do not buy the self-coiling tree protectors for $14 each - i just bought 6inch corrugated pipe and cut it in 18in lengths with a slit down the long side - if the rabbits or mice want to get in through the tie-wire i put around that pipe - they are going to have to be a super strong rodent

 

I did alot of research and planted similar to professional orchards but wasnt as anal - so every 100ft i planted a crabapple which stays in bloom the longest to pollinate everything and then planted apple / pear/ apple / pear/ apple / grafted apple together based on pollination type

 

im not expecting much but this is just a test to see what will happen - and every species i got drops from late september to november - it lines up perfectly with bow season for some strange reason

[Fantail]

If anyone plants trees and all you need is some extra dirt/fill & a shovel consider yourself lucky.

The ground on the property is carpeted with roots, plenty of rocks & shale. I had to use a custom made ice breaker bar to chip - bust up the holes to plant. In most spots I picked out where the skidder went through there was shallow ruts I made use of but you still had to bust up the ground. Then there's getting the material & tools to the sites. Didn't seem like the job was going to end for a while. Paced it out over the whole weekend. Made use of a wheelbarrow but with most of the paths still soggy & rough more then one bag of top soil & mulch at a time wasn't worth it. 

Tell you what I'm not going to plan on any more trees until I iron out the paths a bit with some fill and the tractor/bucket. Oh yeah & the black flies were insane, had to work with a face net in the sun, good times. My boots stink. Ok I feel better now.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Fantail