Legally selling/trading a scary rifle?

[Fehyd643]

lol, that's the problem right there.  We are all guessing at this point, even the LEO's, lawyers and judges! I'll learn more when I talk to my local FFL shop. I'll update you all with what I find out, as I am sure I am not the only one dealing with this.  I really do appreciate all of the knowledge though.  I know it's general advice and not exact law, but it helped me put my brakes on and avoid pissing off the king's minions. I waited until now hoping that things would change, but April is coming fast.

 

 

Remember that I am NOT a lawyer and am simply someone who has been actively following these changes since last January.

If you alter a gun so that it no longer fits the NYS definition of "assault weapon" you should be free to sell it privately, gift it to a someone or leave it to your heirs. Selling (and possibly gifting, I'm don't have the law to look it up right now) any gun in NYS requires a background check, even on private sales.

If you alter a rifle by, for example, changing the stock I see no reason why you cannot resell the old stock without any restriction. That is just a "part" and not regulated or illegal on its own. The way it has been explained to me, the lower received (the part with the serial number on it) is the "gun." The rest is just parts. It is only when you attach those parts to the "gun" that it becomes and issue.

I am not going to take a guess on how it would work for an AR upper on its own with a threaded barrel and bayonet lug. That might be looking for trouble. But I would think that having a previously legal stock (i.e. not collapsible) or just a lose pistol grip is not a problem I am pretty sure you can still buy items like this online.

Again, this is all an educated guess. If in doubt, speak with a lawyer (who, by the way, will also give you an educated guess - although his guess is considerable more educated that mine).

 

[philoshop]

Contact someone like BudsGuns. They're good people, and you should be able to work out an equitable trade for something you can use here. You'll have to go through an FFL no matter how you sell it. Might as well get the most out of it. BTW, thank you for your service.

[HectorBuckBuster]

You have a few options. First thing is NYS does not give a definition of what a detachable magazine is. If you add a MR2 Ar15 Mag Lock, you should have no problems (there is supposed to be a letter coming out that this is NYS Compliant but no one in the NYS Police wants to stepup and say yes or no. Or second just take the gun apart for the time being and just store it.

 

http://www.amazon.com/AR-MR2-Release-Legal-AR15/dp/B00CY2I0BS

 

[Doc]

That's interesting. The gun has been made illegal to own without registration, but not the components that make it illegal. Right now it appears that an assault rifle that is dismantled to a certain level does not have to be registered. Am I understanding all that correctly? Does that mean that a anyone rejected by the background check could still order the components of a firearm and do the assembly at his leisure?

[HectorBuckBuster]

Doc, you are correct, I can own every part and not be a scarey assault weapon, until I add one of those evil featues, unless I had the MR2,(all this does in instead of dropping a magazine to reload, you pull the rear take down pin flip the upper forward and then load the magazine that is attached to the gun.)Then I can add every evil feature I want.The NY Safe act was not about banning a gun, but banning features.You can order every piece for a AR15 to build a complete gun accept the stripped lower (this has the serial numbers on it, and has to go through a FFL dealer), unless you buy a 80 percent lower which does not have to go through a dealer (because it is not complete). With 80 percent stripped lowers you just need to drill out a few holes and you are good to go. Also on the 80 percent lowers you can buy a jig that even shows you where to drill all the holes.I can go online and have stripped lowers shipped to my FFL dealer right now.What people don't understand a AR 15 type gun it fun to build and customize just like a car. You can build a .22lr, .223/556 a .308 (need a different lower) so you have tons' of options.

 

Doc, here is a link and you could order these lowers and have them shipped right to your door.Not sure I would mess around with them as I can get completed stripped lower for $60 each and not have to mess around.

 

https://www.ar-parts.net/ar/ar-15-lower-receiver/80-lower-receiver/?orderby=date&gclid=CNOLvriR2LwCFW9p7AodJgIAlg

 

Edited February 19, 2014 by HectorBuckBuster

[gfdeputy2]

Looking over the Safe act restrictions it states in th frequently asked question section:

Q: What do I do if I don't want to register my assault weapon?

 A: You can sell it to a New York State dealer or anyone out of state by January 15, 2014. Federal law has certain restrictions on shipping guns between states that you should consult before making a transfer.

Then it states

Q: I have an assault weapon. Do I have to give it up?

 A: No. If you have an assault weapon, you can register it with the State Police. You have until April 15, 2014 to register your weapon. Under state and federal law, some people are not allowed to possess a weapon, such as convicted felons, individuals who have been involuntarily committed, or individuals currently under an order of protection. These people will not be able to register. There is no fee for registering.

so is it now illegal to sell one & you have to register it by april, convert it or give it up?

 

[jrm]

so is it now illegal to sell one & you have to register it by april, convert it or give it up?

Effectively, yes - it is illegal to sell one inside of NYS.

The registration requirement goes into effect April 15, 2014. However, the prohibition on transfer went into effect immediately when the law was signed - January 2013. At that point, gun stores stopped sell anything that met the new definition of "assault weapon."

At that time, it also became illegal for anyone to sell, give or otherwise transfer such a gun in NYS. That's not to say is isn't possible some private sales/transfers took place "under the radar" but the law did make such transfers illegal.

There are some exceptions. You can sell to an FFL, although that FFL cannot re-sell inside of NY.

There is also a requirement for all sales - including private - to involve a background check. This typically means you have to go through an FFL. So if someone attempted to skirt the law with an illegal transfer, they would also run afoul of the background check requirement.

Be careful with the NYS website. They don't have all the questions, nor do they have all the answers.

...and yes, if you don't register, surrender or transfer out of state by April 15, you are committing a crime. (applies to a gun that requires registration. It is possible to remove that requirement by modification).

Edited February 19, 2014 by jrm

[gfdeputy2]

There are some exceptions. You can sell to an FFL, although that FFL cannot re-sell inside of NY.

 

 Gottcha so you could still sell out of state (private sale)  and in state to an FFL only
 

[jrm]

Gottcha so you could still sell out of state (private sale)  and in state to an FFL only

Correct.

One other thing. If you are going to sell an _unregistered_ "AW" to an FFL inside NY, do so before 4/15. After that, you better make sure it is registered or you are likely to get into trouble.

[HectorBuckBuster]

Unless you are CEO or retired LEO as they are exempt. Just saying I would never register anything look at CT, they want to go after people that did not register. I would either take the gun apart, modify it, or give it a family member or friend in a gun friendly state.

[rjmjr911]

My fn fs2000 has no pistol grip but a detach mag. It also has a welded muzzle break.

My fn ps90 has a detach mag but again no pistol grip. It also has a welded muzzle break but it's covered by a fake suppressor.

Would these guns need to be registered by April?

If so, what do I do after I register them? Both were purchased years ago and I don't want to give them up.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

[HectorBuckBuster]

RjMJR911, not sure on that gun, but googled a picture. It appear that is does have a grip prutruding below the trigger as that is what NY Safe act defines as a pistol grip.Also as right now, the court ruled that there is no such think as a muzzle brake (since it is a muzzle break), and the Safe Act lists it as a Muzzle Brake.

 

I just read on fn fs2000 website that they call it a thumbhole stock so being a semi-auto with a thumb stock you own a evil assault weapon.

[rjmjr911]

RjMJR911, not sure on that gun, but googled a picture. It appear that is does have a grip prutruding below the trigger as that is what NY Safe act defines as a pistol grip.Also as right now, the court ruled that there is no such think as a muzzle brake (since it is a muzzle break), and the Safe Act lists it as a Muzzle Brake.

I just read on fn fs2000 website that they call it a thumbhole stock so being a semi-auto with a thumb stock you own a evil assault weapon.

Can I keep them?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

[jrm]

Can I keep them? Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

I have no idea if that particular item requires registration.

You can keep it either way:

If it needs to be registered, register and you can legally keep it

If it needs to be registered, don't register and you can keep it until you are caught

If it doesn't need to be registered, you can legally keep it without any further action

[rjmjr911]

How can I tell if it needs registration?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

[jrm]

How can I tell if it needs registration? Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

That's the rub. Here are some ideas:

1. Read and understand the law. That will give you first hand knowledge which is better than what a bunch of strangers on the internet will tell you.

2. Contact a lawyer who in knowledgeable in the area.

3. Search forums like this and nyfirearms.com

4. Find a KNOWLEDGEABLE gun store and see if they are selling the same gun you have (in the same configuration). If so, there is halfway decent chance you do not have to register.

5. Check the NYSP website to see if your configuration gun is described (I don't recommend dealing with the NYSP at all on this topic as they can be wrong, can over-interpret the law and may put your information in a database for tracking purposes).

Basically, if you have a semi-auto firearm with a detachable magazine and ONE "feature" as listed in the law, you need to register. Check the law for a list of applicable features.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Also as right now, the court ruled that there is no such think as a muzzle brake (since it is a muzzle break), and the Safe Act lists it as a Muzzle Brake.

 

 

 Take another run at that for me. I am not following what you said.

[jrm]

Take another run at that for me. I am not following what you said.

I didn't make the original statement but what it means is this...

There was a legal challenge to the "safe" act. The court which reviewed the challenge basically upheld the law. There is one section, however, that the court struck down.

The law references a "muzzle break" of which no such thing exists unless the muzzle is broken. (It should have been muzzle brake). Due to this illiteracy on the part of the lawmakers, the court ruled this provision invalid.

However, there is still some controversy. I haven't heard anyone explain how this ruling will work in practice. Some people have claimed their local law enforcement states the ruling is only valid in the district covered by the court and not the entire state. I know that the ruling actually happened. I personally can't speak to the rest.

Like anything else, the only way to know for sure is if someone gets arrested and either convicted or released.

[HectorBuckBuster]

rjmjr911, here is the NY Safe Act website. You can determine by this if you have to register. I can tell you I have stepped up and will be a plaintiff in a lawsuit against NY Safe Act. There are a few of us willing to step up and put our guns & Magazine's on the line for everyone in NY. 

 

http://www.governor.ny.gov/nysafeact/registration-questionnaire

[rjmjr911]

rjmjr911, here is the NY Safe Act website. You can determine by this if you have to register. I can tell you I have stepped up and will be a plaintiff in a lawsuit against NY Safe Act. There are a few of us willing to step up and put our guns & Magazine's on the line for everyone in NY.

http://www.governor.ny.gov/nysafeact/registration-questionnaire

Well according to the website, both the fs2000 & ps90 must be registered

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

[mxsmitz201]

i would just replace the stock/pistol grip and take the muzzle break off, and keep the rifle.  then you dont have to register it at all.  you can keep the original stock and the break and put them back on once hell breaks loose lol. screw new york any way you can, theyll do it to you.

[WNYBuckHunter]

You could part it out as well, might get more selling the upper, then taking the stock off of the lower and selling it in 2 separate pieces.