Insurance Question

[NeverSeenNorHeard]

So I have a piece of land that just opened up to me. I will probably hunt it a handful of times a year for mainly predators but will sit for deer once in a while. The elderly landowner says he just wants someone to use the land. He said I could hang stands etc... He also said the land is heavily traveled & hunted by trespassers. He has insurance on the land to protect himself from one of these clowns getting hurt etc... My question is if I hang a stand and one of these trespassing goons falls out and gets hurt who is liable, the landowner, or the person who hung the stand? Assume the landowner goes "that's not my stand, it's his". Should I get insurance as well? If so, do you have any suggestions on companies?

 

Thanks!

[Jason118]

There is law about this siding with the landlord. If there is no fee involved it's very hard to sue the land owner. Anyone can be sued but if your property is properly posted ( corners and only every 650ft) it very hard for a trespasser to sue. The law is so specific I wouldn't even bother with extra insurance.

[Doc]

I have often wondered the same thing about old wooden hunting platforms that we have built over the years. They do get abandoned, and might be a temptation to lure some dummy to climb up and try to sit in one of them. What if due to lack of repair and maintenance the stand breaks and someone gets hurt. Is that considered  keeping an unsafe menace on the property? Is that kind of the same thing as a salesman falling through a porch step and causing grounds for a lawsuit.

[Deerthug]

If the property is posted properly and a trespasser comes in despite the warnings and gets hurt, the landowner would most likely not be responsible. I say most likely because there are some exceptions i.e. landowner has a pond on his property and knows that kids sneak in and use it regularly but does nothing to stop or deter this from happening, and a kid drowns or gets hurt then the landowner may be held to the standard of what a reasonable landowner would have done in the same situation - post the property, install a fence etc...

If not posted, I would spend $100 or so get the signs and tell landowner you will put them up. Make sure they contain the name address and phone of the landowner to be proper and enforceable.

[Doc]

While landowner liability has been relaxed quite a bit, I still think landowners are liable for any known hazards like uncovered wells, and perhaps unsafe treestands. I say that's what I "think" because I have not heard of any modern day successful lawsuits based on such neglected and unposted dangerous hazards. It certainly would be something to check out with the family lawyer.

[WNYBuckHunter]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/8371.html

 

Its right down toward the bottom of that page.....

 

Q. Is posting required to protect landowners from liability?

A. No. Whether the property is posted or not, the General Obligations Law protects landowners from liability for non-paying recreationalists on their property. Because of this protection, recreational liability lawsuits against rural landowners are uncommon. Recreational activities covered include: hunting; fishing; organized gleaning (picking); canoeing; boating; trapping; hiking; cross-country skiing; tobogganing; sledding; speleological (caving) activities; horseback riding; bicycle riding; hang gliding; motorized vehicle operation for recreation; snowmobiling; non-commercial wood cutting or gathering; and dog training. This protection does not apply in cases of willful or malicious failure to guard or warn against dangers.

 

 

Q. May the owner or lessee charge for hunting, fishing, or trapping on the posted property?

A. Yes, but charging for access removes the liability protection granted to the landowner by the General Obligations Law. To learn more about landowner liability see the link for Cornell University's publication "Recreational Access and Owner Liability" under Links Leaving DEC's Website in the right hand column at the top of this page.

[Deerthug]

This protection does not apply in cases of willful or malicious failure to guard or warn against dangers.

Theses are the key words. If you as landowner know or have reason to believe there are trespassers and you willfully fail to protect against known or should have known dangers then you can be held liable. So for $100 post the property and include warning signs of potential hazards.

[Doc]

I ran across an interesting article on exactly this topic of landowner liability. It indicates that the issue is a whole lot more complicated than the DEC website synopsis indicates.  http://injury.findlaw.com/accident-injury-law/premises-liability-who-is-responsible.html

 

Also, I wonder if this is like so many other laws where there is one version for Environmental Conservation Law and an entirely different set of statutes for civil law.

 

Laws are written in such ambiguous terms that the interpretation becomes the most important element. Look at that quote: "This protection does not apply in cases of willful or malicious failure to guard or warn against dangers."  Imagine how that could be tortured and twisted by a couple of attorneys.....lol.

 

Again, if I truly had to have a credible answer, a few bucks to a family lawyer might be the prudent way to get answers.

 

[Deerthug]

Laws are written in such ambiguous terms that the interpretation becomes the most important element. Look at that quote: "This protection does not apply in cases of willful or malicious failure to guard or warn against dangers." Imagine how that could be tortured and twisted by a couple of attorneys.....lol.

.

You are absolutely right Doc! What may be considered willful or malicious can be interpreted 100 different ways from here to Sunday. But that's why they pay lawyers like me lots of $$$$$ to sway the judge to one side or another. Lol! Off to work now.....

[WNYBuckHunter]

Theses are the key words. If you as landowner know or have reason to believe there are trespassers and you willfully fail to protect against known or should have known dangers then you can be held liable. So for $100 post the property and include warning signs of potential hazards.

 

I think that has more to do with setting traps to harm or injure trespassers. You know, like putting nails in a trail or something like that, which always seems to be suggested around here in the trespassers threads.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I ran across an interesting article on exactly this topic of landowner liability. It indicates that the issue is a whole lot more complicated than the DEC website synopsis indicates.  http://injury.findlaw.com/accident-injury-law/premises-liability-who-is-responsible.html

 

Also, I wonder if this is like so many other laws where there is one version for Environmental Conservation Law and an entirely different set of statutes for civil law.

 

Laws are written in such ambiguous terms that the interpretation becomes the most important element. Look at that quote: "This protection does not apply in cases of willful or malicious failure to guard or warn against dangers."  Imagine how that could be tortured and twisted by a couple of attorneys.....lol.

 

Again, if I truly had to have a credible answer, a few bucks to a family lawyer might be the prudent way to get answers.

 

Problem with that site, is it is not specific to any state, so you cant apply it to NY specifically.

 

I agree on going to talk to a lawyer if you really have questions about it.

 

[NeverSeenNorHeard]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the help.