damn deer farms

[Five Seasons]

I guess that makes you deaf as well as stoopid. Check my posting record. Not hard to do.

 

 

 

lol.

 

Try actually looking you idiotic gimp. My post record is available for viewing.All that cash is making you dumb.

 

might be hard for my old buddy Papist

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papist

 

Papist is a (usually disparaging) term or an anti-Catholic slur, referring to the Roman Catholic Church, its teachings, practices, or adherents. The term was coined during the English Reformation to denote a person whose loyalties were to the Pope, rather than to the Church of England. Over time, however, the term came to mean one who supported Papal authority over all Christians; it thus entered widespread use, especially among Anglicans and Presbyterians.^{[citation needed]} The word, dating from 1534, derives (through Middle French) from Latin papa, meaning "Pope".^[2]

[WNYBuckHunter]

I'm asking everyone not pointing fingers : )

[nyantler]

Any time animals are bought and sold and sent all over the country there will be the potential for transfering illness and disease ... living and eating in close quarters where they also are standing and laying in each others excrement doesn't happen in the wild... transfering a disease will happen much slower in the wild as well because large quantities of deer aren't continuously in close contact with one another... that doesn't mean it can't happen, just not as easily as farmed animals. That is just common sense... deer farming, no matter what we might think about the "hunting" aspect or canned hunt part, like any farming can be done right or done wrong... some farms are impeccable while others are filthy... I'm just confused at how a CWD deer can be brought into your herd without being examined or tested prior to purchasing or transferring the animal. That doesn't make sense.

[G-Man]

though cwd may of started in the wild fact is it is being spread to other states via deer farms, even if it is in grass/hay feed..these are being used by deer farms.. perhaps 0 transfer of deer to other farms/states until a method is found to test live deer... and all of this is money driven not conservation driven....... as for the rest of the name calling/fighting..not needed... that is all

[Four Season Whitetail's]

though cwd may of started in the wild fact is it is being spread to other states via deer farms, even if it is in grass/hay feed..these are being used by deer farms.. perhaps 0 transfer of deer to other farms/states until a method is found to test live deer... and all of this is money driven not conservation driven....... as for the rest of the name calling/fighting..not needed... that is all

So whats your thoughts on me buying my winter Alfalfa from out west to feed my herd and infect my deer? By your statement its ok to move one item but not the other and the same damage is done. Hows that work?  And to step it one further..No deer can be move from any farm in any state unless that farm is at least 5 years CWD free tested. Meaning 5 years worth of at least 3 animals killed and tested.

 

Are they going to test the hay and corn before they ship it out? You say only deer farms eat that feed from CWD hot zones..Thats highly doubtful and remember when those cows or goats are eating that CWD prion positive feed they may not be getting CWD but they are putting that prion in the grond for up to 16 years for the next deer or elk to eat off that ground and they will be infected?

 

make any sense to you? 

[wdswtr]

That is a question that is hard to answer for anyone, due to it not being know exactly how CWD is being transmitted.  Here is a cut and paste from the CWDA

How Does CWD Spread?   It is not known exactly how CWD is transmitted. The infectious agent may be passed in feces, urine or saliva. Transmission is thought to be lateral (from animal to animal). Although maternal transmission (from mother to fetus) may occur, it appears to be relatively unimportant in maintaining epidemics. The minimal incubation period between infection and development of clinical disease appears to be approximately 16 months. The maximal incubation period is unknown, as is the point at which shedding of the CWD agent begins during the prolonged course of infection.

Because CWD infectious agents are extremely resistant in the environment, transmission may be both direct and indirect. Concentrating deer and elk in captivity or by artificial feeding probably increases the likelihood of both direct and indirect transmission between individuals. Contaminated pastures appear to have served as sources of infection in some CWD epidemics. The apparent persistence of the infectious agents in contaminated environments represents a significant obstacle to eradication of CWD from either captive or free-ranging cervid populations.

The movement of live animals is one of the greatest risk factors in spreading the disease into new areas. Natural movements of wild deer and elk contribute to the spread of the disease, and human-aided transportation of both captive and wild animals greatly exacerbates this risk factor. The apparent spread of CWD between captive and wild cervids is a matter of hot debate. Although strong circumstantial evidence suggests that CWD has spread from positive captive elk to wild cervids in some instances, it may never be proven which group of animals represents the source of infection. It is likely that the disease has been passed in both directions (from captive to wild animals, and from wild to captive animals).

 

[wdswtr]

I would also suggest you just dont buy your alfalfa from out west lmao

[DirtTime]

Papist? May I ask you a question?

Why would anyone take you serious when your avatar is the logo for Jagermeister.

 

Just sayin'.

 

 

Edit, sorry forgot to add:

 

 

Edited October 28, 2014 by JustRob

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I would also suggest you just dont buy your alfalfa from out west lmao

You could cut and paste a dozen different research on CWD and get a dozen different thoughts.  Bottom line is its big time double standards shown by the Govt against deer farms and high fence.  They open gates on their CWD positive herds( Wind Cave) but they want to depopulate a deer farm when the same CWD shows up. Their CWD is thrown out into the wild for hunters to bring home untested...Ours are behind fence used for breeding and if ever harvested..Its tested!   

 

The point is that they say its ok to move the CWD prion all across the country in infected feed but not move a deer from a 5 plus years CWD free tested farm...Yeah thats playing on the same field>>>

[fasteddie]

I believe this is what he was eluding to

 

 

[wdswtr]

You could cut and paste a dozen different research on CWD and get a dozen different thoughts.  Bottom line is its big time double standards shown by the Govt against deer farms and high fence.  They open gates on their CWD positive herds( Wind Cave) but they want to depopulate a deer farm when the same CWD shows up. Their CWD is thrown out into the wild for hunters to bring home untested...Ours are behind fence used for breeding and if ever harvested..Its tested!   

 

The point is that they say its ok to move the CWD prion all across the country in infected feed but not move a deer from a 5 plus years CWD free tested farm...Yeah thats playing on the same field>>>

 

I have read quite a lot of the research and you are correct on the different thought, but thats where things get real blury is they are mostly thoughts, educated guesses and not enough scientific data to make a solid conclusion on most every aspect of CWD.  We all know that there is no understanding the reasons behind the government when they are involved in anything.  In all honesty and not meant to criticize, but its not exactly a natural act to capture, play with genetics, breed, market, sell, hunt and kill these animals outside the wild free ranging population.  Anyone who does should expect some double standards and finger pointing.  Is it right or fair I cant answer that but I would say anytime that the branches of government that are there to maintain the enviorment and its animals they are going to make your business less than the idea you expect it to be.  Look at it this way it could be worse, if they truly wanted you guys gone it can be done with a piece of paper and some signatures on it.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I have read quite a lot of the research and you are correct on the different thought, but thats where things get real blury is they are mostly thoughts, educated guesses and not enough scientific data to make a solid conclusion on most every aspect of CWD.  We all know that there is no understanding the reasons behind the government when they are involved in anything.  In all honesty and not meant to criticize, but its not exactly a natural act to capture, play with genetics, breed, market, sell, hunt and kill these animals outside the wild free ranging population.  Anyone who does should expect some double standards and finger pointing.  Is it right or fair I cant answer that but I would say anytime that the branches of government that are there to maintain the enviorment and its animals they are going to make your business less than the idea you expect it to be.  Look at it this way it could be worse, if they truly wanted you guys gone it can be done with a piece of paper and some signatures on it.

Sorry but they already tried that...Its a little tougher than the Safe Act>>>> LOL

[Elmo]

FYI: Jagermeister translate to hunt master in German.

[mike rossi]

Sorry but they already tried that...Its a little tougher than the Safe Act>>>> LOL

 

Never mind...

Edited October 28, 2014 by mike rossi

[G-Man]

first, it seems that the cwd is passed more easily from animal to animal. and i wouldnt buy feed from out of state, especially one where the disease is know to exist. cwd id alway found on game farms first. as semen, or animal are bought sold and shipped elsewhere to other farms and game farms. why the heck dont we have a shipping ban.... the farms fight it because it would cost them$$$ . and that is the drive behind game farms... period for right or wrong. you are not conducting research to save the species, thats obvious. but in fact hurting it, to continue the practices of moving animals around potentially infecting disease free wild herds makes as much sence as bringing all the ebola patients to america for treatment.... ( and though the wild herd that is infected continurs to live on and thrive. it just doesnt make sence to contine buisness as usually and continue to infect states thru game farm shipments to others)

[bowaholic]

Show me the real facts to back this what happens case up?  Im not being smart either.  What has it been almost 48 years since CWD was first identified in the US? How long was CWD in the US before it was ever discovered and identified? When is this expected CWD running crazy through wild herds predicted? There are many CWD cases diagnosed in captive animals in the US since 1967 as well.  The CWD Alliance list them all since it was first identified. Seems to me there is more to worry about than free range.

1967 CWD was first identified as a clinical disease in captive mule deer at the Colorado Division of Wildlife Foothills Wildlife Research Facility in Fort Collins, Colorado.

1979 CWD was first recognized in captive mule deer and black-tailed deer at the Wyoming Fish and Game Department's Sybille wildlife research facility.

CWD was diagnosed in captive elk for the first time.

1996 CWD was found for the first time outside of the Colorado/Wyoming CWD "endemic zone" in a captive elk farm in Saskatchewan.

1997 CWD is identified on several captive elk facilities in South Dakota, marking the first documented cases of CWD in the state.

1998 June 1998 and again in June 1999, elk shipped to Oklahoma from an alternative livestock facility near Philipsburg were confirmed to have CWD.

1999 CWD is detected in a captive elk facility in Oklahoma, marking the first time the disease was found in the state.

1999nIn November and December 1999, all 83 elk at the Philipsburg facility in Montana (the source of the CWD captive positive in Oklahoma) were destroyed.

2001 Nebraska discovered CWD in a captive white-tailed deer facility for the first time

2002 The Minnesota Board of Animal Health confirmed the presence of CWD in a captive elk, the state's first documented case of the disease.

2002 The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources detected CWD in a captive white-tailed deer, the state's first documented case of CWD in captive cervids

2002 The first case of CWD in Alberta was found at a white-tailed deer farm near Edmonton.

2005 The New York State Department of Agriculture and Markets confirmed the presence of CWD in a captive white-tailed deer, marking the state's first documented case of CWD.

2006 The Minnesota Board of Animal Health confirmed that a captive white-tailed deer from Lac Qui Parle County tested positive for CWD. This is the state's first case of CWD in captive white-tailed deer.

2008 The Michigan Department of Natural Resources detected CWD in a captive white-tailed deer from Kent County. This is state's first documented case of CWD.

2008 Elk meat sold at a Longmont, Colorado farmers market was found to come from a captive elk infected with CWD.

2010 The Missouri Department of Agriculture discovers the state's first case of CWD in a captive white-tailed deer.

2012 First case of CWD found in captive Pennsylvania deer.

THANK YOU! I am 20 something and never watched Sinefeld so i'll use all the exclamation points I want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lmfao

[bowaholic]

I guess that makes you deaf as well as stoopid. Check my posting record. Not hard to do.

 

you know its spelled STUPID right?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

first, it seems that the cwd is passed more easily from animal to animal. and i wouldnt buy feed from out of state, especially one where the disease is know to exist. cwd id alway found on game farms first. as semen, or animal are bought sold and shipped elsewhere to other farms and game farms. why the heck dont we have a shipping ban.... the farms fight it because it would cost them$$$ . and that is the drive behind game farms... period for right or wrong. you are not conducting research to save the species, thats obvious. but in fact hurting it, to continue the practices of moving animals around potentially infecting disease free wild herds makes as much sence as bringing all the ebola patients to america for treatment.... ( and though the wild herd that is infected continurs to live on and thrive. it just doesnt make sence to contine buisness as usually and continue to infect states thru game farm shipments to others)

Do you relly think when a state tests less than half of one percent of a herd they are going to find something and farms test 100% of every animal that dies or is harvested! Of course we are going to find it first. How come Ny does not test road killed animals before they spread the CWD prion all over the north country? How come Ny does not test animals down near the Pa border where CWD is going to walk in? Why is it that over a dozen states that have never had a farm or ranch on it has CWD? Why is it the state of Illinos has over 500 cases of CWD in the wild yet never a case behind fence with like 500 farms in that state?

 

You tell me dont buy my feed from infected places! How the hell can a guy know what bag of corn sitting in a feed store came from an infected CWD field in the state of Iowa and shipped all across the country and now sits in Watertown Ny? Please tell me you dont think Iowa corn stays in Iowa or Wisconsin Alfalfa does bot end up in bags of Chaffhay and sold all across the country?  

 

You want to ban deer because you dont like the idea of it! If you want to ban CWD you had better be including everything that CWD is related to and can be shipped by. Again its the Bambi Syndrome not the disease that is doing nothing to animals across the country! 

[G-Man]

have you ever read bambi? its the most violent natural history book ever written... as for a state testing for cwd from road kill ect it came into the state via deer farms as it has many other states, i dont have a problem with deer farms, but feed can be bought local from local growers. as for shipping from all over i know i work for the rail road and transport grain everywhere by tens of thousands of tons. but a a responsible farmer you think your group would push for certified feed. as for the rest of your farming, if you raise deer to sell the meat , scents , velvet, hides, ect thats great. if you raise them and release then into another fenced area for someone to pay to hunt great. My concern is the spread of this and possibly other diseases to wild herds around the country mearly for profit ( if the deer are raised and hunted at the game farm where they were born i have zero issues) thus affecting the publics resources.

For you to insinuate i dont like deer farms is an insult to me, i manage habitat extensivly for wild game that benifit myself and many neighbors indirectly. i enjoy watching a bision farm down the road and the local schools captive deer herd (seniors have a fisheries and wildlife management class available to them as well as their own cable hunting show). i just feel that as a wild game farmer your group needs to step up and stop the accidental spread of this by restricting yourselves rather than letting the $$$ drive your decisions.. exp. hunting preserves the bring in thousands of deer for hunts rather than raiseing and hunting their own...

[bowaholic]

boi u shur got me on that 1.... ill nevr point out a splling erer 2 u again.

[Paula]

Ha

[Five Seasons]

yet lost in this all this about an avatar is Papist is an anti-catholic slur. Which we are all ok with for some reason.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papist

Papist is a (usually disparaging) term or an anti-Catholic slur, referring to the Roman Catholic Church, its teachings, practices, or adherents.

[bowaholic]

aww shucks... you're making me blush

[bowaholic]

Of course I did! All for you teacher

[dbHunterNY]

didn't read through a lot of this snowballed thread.
 

I don't like how deer farming turns a natural resource and hunting into a something artificial and driven by money.  hunts aren't canned in a big 1,000+ acre fence but the success rates are much better than free range hunting.  also it's not based on how skilled you are at finding a bigger buck.  it's whatever inches you're willing to pony up the money for.

I have no doubts in my mind that Four Seasons works for the money he's earned.  I'm sure he gets up every morning with a list of crap to deal with.  I think some in here no more about CWD then he likes to admit.  However, he should know more.  His lively hood depends on it.  To my knowledge it's not known how or why CWD initially shows up.  it is a disease based on prevalence though and it's a fact that it can become more prevalent on a farm than in the wild.  I don't think there's reliable means to test live deer so any herd, farmed or not, isn't any safer to begin with than deer herds in the wild.  As long as right measures are taken so any farm raised deer are isolated from the wild population then it's not as big of an issue.  that's assuming all deer farms are responsible though, and based on society in general, I doubt that's the case.  things get even less black and white once the deer leave the farm.  the deer have such good genetics that they're shipped around with big antlers or as a fatter doe sooner in life than maturity.  CWD doesn't show itself in a deer until later ages much of the time.