Dec and private property

[Chef]

I will preface this question with the fact that I do abide by the law and am only asking out of curiosity and what a friend told me..... He said that unlike regular police dec does not need permission to come on and inspect on private land. He said that since all wild game is owned by the state it makes it ok.. I do thank all of our law enforcement officers for the job that they do but I still think they should have to ask for permission and announce themselves before tramping around on someone's private land.

Edited November 14, 2014 by chefhunter86

[burmjohn]

Nope, pretty sure they have more or less free roam. Neighbors down the road from our place had the DEC come through and ask for a license when he was in the stand.   Personally I welcome it after hearing gun shots before and after legal shooting time.  They busted ~3 different places near me for bait piles last year. I just hope they dont come by when there are deer in front of me!

[Jason118]

My parents own land and were under that idea at one time. DEC actually told them this is a myth. They need probable cause. They can not come on your land with out probable cause of a crime. Same as anyone else. Constitutional rights are not suspended cause of a different badge. I could be wrong but I would like to c reference to the actual law if in disagreement.

[Chef]

Wow two completely different answers with in a matter of minuets, one that supports what I thought and one with what my friend said. It sure would be interesting to find out the truth.

[burmjohn]

Give them a call and let me know the outcome. 

 

[Jason118]

Yeah I'm not high and mighty on my stance on this but we had a situation on the farm years ago and this was their "quoted answer" Everyone has heard they have more lee way than a regular officer ~~~~ we'll show me a law that states this.

[DarrenB]

To avoid having to face civil litigation or criminal trespass charges, DEC should enter private property only upon proper authority. That authority may arise from one or more of the following circumstances: 1:Consent:  2:Plain View: 3:Search Warrants: 4:Exigent Circumstances: This refers to entry on to property or into premises under emergency circumstances. An emergency situation is one that presents an immediate, substantial or serious threat to public health, safety or welfare. If faced with what they believe is an emergency, staff should first contact the appropriate Environmental Conservation Officer or the police, and immediately consult with their Central Office or Regional program attorney.'     

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2014 by DarrenB

[HectorBuckBuster]

I was hunting on private property and had DEC come up to me, saying they where investigating a reported shooting with a rifle from the road (this was before rifles where legal). He was wearing all green too. Also seen the DEC drive right out through the driveway in the vineyards before to check licenses.The DEC can pretty much get away with anything. The DEC officers have more authority then State Police.

[Caveman]

This situation is known as the "open fields doctrine." A quick google search and you can read about it.  But yes, generally any cop (not just ECOs) can enter your woods without cause at any time. 

[Al Bundy]

Last year or maybe two now, the DEC website stated clearly that DEC officers were not allowed to enter POSTED land without consent.  This is not internet bullsh$t. It was clearly stated in plain English.  It mentioned nothing of probable cause. The paragraph on that site is now gone. It does state clearly that DEC cannot enter posted land to retrieve a deer, if the landowner denies permission to enter.  If they cant enter private land to get a deer, why would they be allowed to enter private land just because?

[Chef]

This situation is known as the "open fields doctrine." A quick google search and you can read about it. But yes, generally any cop (not just ECOs) can enter your woods without cause at any time.

Yes but after reading that law it seems like they May venture onto your property if they view some sort of illegal activity, they can not just come and ask for a liscense if they view a person hunting. You still have some rights and protections on private land.

[Caveman]

Yes but after reading that law it seems like they May venture onto your property if they view some sort of illegal activity, they can not just come and ask for a liscense if they view a person hunting. You still have some rights and protections on private land 

 

Well, I just did some research before I went down this rabbit hole and it appears that NY allows for stronger protections than the federal constitution.  The open fields doctrine was rejected by the NY Court of Appeals in 1992 in a case called People v. Scott.  I can admit when I am wrong. My apologies.   

[46rkl]

It’s long and (of course) full of legal terms but it basically says what DarrenB posted in a longer form. I think the important one for hunters is violations in plain view. 

OGC 7: Staff Access to Property or Premises

1. Summary: The purpose of this policy is to address program staff's need for guidance as to how and when they may enter property for the purpose of carrying out their official duties. Entry may be needed to conduct inspections in connection with permit applications, to conduct inspections in connection with determining compliance with permits or other regulatory requirements, to undertake enforcement, or for other programmatic activity. Entry on to private property without the appropriate authority can result in adverse consequences for staff. As such, this document will serve as General Counsel Policy with respect to the entry by staff on to private property to carry out their regulatory responsibilities. All program staff should consult with their Central Office or Regional program attorneys for advice regarding their specific statutory and regulatory program authority.
2. Policy: It is the Policy of the Office of General Counsel (OGC) that program staff shall enter private property under the procedures set forth herein. In recognition of a person's Constitutional right of privacy and protection against unreasonable searches and seizures, this Policy establishes procedures to ensure that program staff possess appropriate authority to enter private property while carrying out their official duties.
3. Purpose and Background: The right to privacy and the right to be protected against unreasonable searches or seizures of one's person or property, is guaranteed by both the 4th Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article I, Section 12 of the New York State Constitution. Criminal trespass is defined as knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully in or upon premises (NY Penal Law §140.05). Unlawful inspections can result in the suppression of evidence obtained as a result of illegal entry. In addition, unlawful entry onto property can result in civil litigation or even criminal trespass charges. The procedures set forth in this policy are intended to protect program staff from the potential adverse consequences of entering private property without the necessary legal authority.
   To avoid having to face civil litigation or criminal trespass charges, DEC program staff should enter private property only upon proper authority. That authority may arise from one or more of the following circumstances:
   1. Consent: a business or property owner may consent to entry. Consent may be verbal or in writing, but it may only be granted by a person who has the authority or ownership rights to grant access. Consent may be withdrawn at any time, and once withdrawn, staff must leave the property. Consent may also be present under the terms of a permit, administrative order on consent, or permit application consent form. If a permit, administrative order, or consent form is the source of authority relied upon for access, it is advisable for program staff to have a copy of that document in their possession, with the access provision clearly noted.
   2. Plain View: Violations in plain view may be observed and recorded from on-site or off-site, as there is no expectation of privacy when a violation is in plain view. Recording may be accomplished through such means as notes, photos, and/or videotape. Off-site observation may take place from adjoining public or private property, or through the use of State planes or helicopters. However, if staff uses adjoining private property that is not generally open to the public, that property owner must first have consented to entry on to their property for that purpose. Parking lots, shopping centers, and cemeteries are all examples of private property that are generally open to the public. Even in the case of private property generally open to the public, however, staff should be careful not to undertake any activity that interferes with the movement of other members of the public, or with the ordinary activity that occurs on that property. Observation of a violation from off-site does not justify entry on to the site (although it could provide probable cause for a warrant).
   3. Search Warrants: Staff may work with their Central Office or Regional program attorney to obtain a civil or criminal search warrant. Search warrants are limited in time, duration and scope, and DEC staff must adhere to all restrictions and requirements set forth in the warrant.
   4. Exigent Circumstances: This refers to entry on to property or into premises under emergency circumstances. An emergency situation is one that presents an immediate, substantial or serious threat to public health, safety or welfare. If faced with what they believe is an emergency, staff should first contact the appropriate Environmental Conservation Officer or the police, and immediately consult with their Central Office or Regional program attorney. If Department action could be deferred long enough to obtain a court order with no significant harm to public health or the environment, it is not an emergency situation.
      Note: Under New York law, any property that is posted, fenced or gated, no matter how secluded, is protected private property. The unauthorized entry on to such property by anyone, including DEC staff, will constitute trespass. It should also be noted that regulatory inspections should be conducted in a manner that is reasonable. Under the holding of Flacke v. Onondaga Landfill Sys. (127 Misc2d 984 [Sup. Ct. Onondaga County 1985], affd 177 AD2d 992 [4th Dept. 1986] rev'd on other grounds 69 NY2d 863 [1987]), overly frequent inspections of the same site may be deemed unreasonable and give rise to claims of harassment.
      Note: Receipt of a complaint or other knowledge of a violation does not provide any independent authority to enter.

[Farflung]

If you are interested in this topic and 46rkl's post, you might want to take a look at Wikipedia's definition/discussion of curtilage. Sort of the flip side of the open fields doctrine. Was a hot topic in Pennsylvania for a while

[land 1]

no special police powers same as every cop, depending on type of call it all depends on what they can and can not do

[First-light]

On Long Island a nice buck was killed and died on a anti hunters property. DEC did not have the legal authority to enter property and retrieve deer. It wasted there. 

[land 1]

also I me wrong but 46's post states DEC staff and refers to DEC staff should contact law enforcement so might not be right on point....what people some time don't understand law enforcement calls  are not always yes or no and black and white there is some instances that are in the grey area and each one may be different 

Edited June 17, 2020 by land 1
mis spell

[G-Man]

They can with probable cause, fly.over with drone or helicopter, seeing suspicious activity. And yes emergency as well. If they didnt have right to do this then all.the fields of weed growing behind the barn would be untouchable.  Tips that can be confirmed visually. Seeing deer hanging in tree behind house minus tags.. ect.. suspicious activity like running a still.. 

[mike103]

DEC officers are Police Officers in the state of New York. They are bound by the constitution like any other Police Officer.

They use the exigent circumstances exception to preform many of the acts that people think are beyond the scope of any other police office and the 4th amendment.

For example they search your cooler for illegal game without first obtaining a search warrant. The courts allow this because coolers are easy to move to another location and fish and meat are easily disposed of.

In the case of trespassing on private property again they use the same exception when responding to calls of gunfire that is illegal, illegally shot or captured game and baiting because if they fail to act the suspect will flee and or evidence will be destroyed.