Nocturnal Deer

[bg1063]

Hello all!  I need some help, so any help you guys could offer would be great.  I hunt upstate near the Hunter/Cairo/Tannersville area where I have a nice log cabin with about 20 acres.  The property is pretty hilly and the terrain is rough especially when there is snow on the ground but I still see plenty of wildlife.  My neighbor is a complete di@k who on opening day for every season drives around on his ATV 20 minutes before dawn and continues to drive around throughout the day.  Whether its with his ATV or with his truck he is constantly driving around while I am sitting in my blind or up in my treestand.  He owns 300 acres surrounding my property but his constant presence is really driving the deer away during the day.  I spend all summer setting up new shooting lanes, clearing out trails, putting up new blinds overlooking pines and bedding areas only to have this d@uche drive around during open season, sometimes with his dog.  I think his constant presence is what is causing the nocturnal deer situation.  Behind his property are 1000 acres of state land where I have walked up and have seen plenty of 8,10 and 12s during the off season.  The only thing is none of them are coming down by me where all the does are.  Now I have some huge does but I would like to shoot something bigger than a six.  Any help?  All the preparation, money spent on scent control, blinds, estrus, etc is useless unless I start seeing some bigger animals.  This season was a total bust for deer, I was able to nab a nice 180lb sow black bear but the deer are only coming out at night, any way to turn their feeding habits around?  Or am I just screwed because of my neighbor? Please help, only a few months until I will start clearing lanes again...

[HectorBuckBuster]

Well what do you have on your land to draw the deer there?If there is no food source deer will not come. Also 20 acres is not much to do anything with when the guy has 300 acres surrounding you.

[bg1063]

We have acorn trees surrounding open area of about 3 acres of alfalfa 

[philoshop]

Is your neighbor doing this because he wants you to stop hunting, or do you think he'd do it regardless of who owned the property? It's an important point.

If for some reason it's about you personally there's probably some wiggle room regarding his stance if you make the effort. If he's a complete anti-hunter your only real hope is to somehow convince him that you're doing a good thing with your land in the broader scheme of things. Either way, without changes of attitude on both sides nothing will change. I wish you the best.

[wolc123]

If you plant that three acres with field corn, trap the coons heavy to irradicate them, and somehow keep the bears away, then you might be able to hold one of them big-ones on your 20 acres during the day. It is really the does that control the territory however, especially when the food is good compared to the surroundings, so it will not be easy.

A second option, that may work better for holding a big buck there, would be to knock off all the food-plotting, and let the whole 20 revert to thick, nasty cover. Hinge cut, plant some fast growing evergreens, etc.. The does will move off if you cut off their food supply, creating an opening for a buck to move in.

[bg1063]

Is your neighbor doing this because he wants you to stop hunting, or do you think he'd do it regardless of who owned the property? It's an important point.

If for some reason it's about you personally there's probably some wiggle room regarding his stance if you make the effort. If he's a complete anti-hunter your only real hope is to somehow convince him that you're doing a good thing with your land in the broader scheme of things. Either way, without changes of attitude on both sides nothing will change. I wish you the best.

 

Yea he is doing it because he doesn’t like hunters.  There is a town hunting club that has property adjacent to his as well and he is out there harassing them too.  He wasn’t like this years ago, this just started happening within the last 3 years or so.  It is getting so bad that he was coming on to my property to post Safet Zone signs!

[bg1063]

If you plant that three acres with field corn, trap the coons heavy to irradicate them, and somehow keep the bears away, then you might be able to hold one of them big-ones on your 20 acres during the day. It is really the does that control the territory however, especially when the food is good compared to the surroundings, so it will not be easy.

A second option, that may work better for holding a big buck there, would be to knock off all the food-plotting, and let the whole 20 revert to thick, nasty cover. Hinge cut, plant some fast growing evergreens, etc.. The does will move off if you cut off their food supply, creating an opening for a buck to move in.

 

Maybe I will try the corn after the winter and give that a few seasons of try.  Coons I can keep out and I’ll never say no a good bear hunt.  

 

Will this affect my turkey movement at all?

[growalot]

bedding and water...on the opposite side of where you need to come into the alfalfa stands.......get the trail cams up and find travel routes now. Then move those when their seasonal movements change....does he do this all summer...if not take video and turn him in for harassment....they will probably just go talk to him...but before that... go knock on his door  nice an neat and clean and tell him who you are and if he has a moment...then just plain ask him..." have I done something to offend you?" that will get some dialog going if it deteriates rapidly...say thank you and leave...then call DEC and let them know you have evidence and tried to speak with him nicely.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

If you plant that three acres with field corn, trap the coons heavy to irradicate them, and somehow keep the bears away, then you might be able to hold one of them big-ones on your 20 acres during the day. It is really the does that control the territory however, especially when the food is good compared to the surroundings, so it will not be easy.

A second option, that may work better for holding a big buck there, would be to knock off all the food-plotting, and let the whole 20 revert to thick, nasty cover. Hinge cut, plant some fast growing evergreens, etc.. The does will move off if you cut off their food supply, creating an opening for a buck to move in.

Great advice here but if it were me i would make the bedding area 10- 15 acres and the other 5-10 would be split with in a 2 acre Alfalfa/clover field for early season and the rest in corn left in all year. They will bed in the corn and bedding areas and use the green fields until die off. once frost hits the corn you will be able to set up over and still see into the corn. Plus you will have some mast in the woods/bedding areas.

 

I would shy away from cams and crap if you already have this guy all over near the property. Quiet is name of the game in that little bit of land. Give them what they need, get out and get stands in early, say when planting plots and dont go in until the day you climb into the stand.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Four Season Whitetails

[bg1063]

bedding and water...on the opposite side of where you need to come into the alfalfa stands.......get the trail cams up and find travel routes now. Then move those when their seasonal movements change....does he do this all summer...if not take video and turn him in for harassment....they will probably just go talk to him...but before that... go knock on his door  nice an neat and clean and tell him who you are and if he has a moment...then just plain ask him..." have I done something to offend you?" that will get some dialog going if it deteriates rapidly...say thank you and leave...then call DEC and let them know you have evidence and tried to speak with him nicely.

 

There is actually a large creek which divides our property where they cross from his property to mine, but again they are only crossing my property at night.  He only rides during the summer on rare occasion, usually if his family is up for a weekend or something.  I will try talking to him again and see if we can resolve this, notifying the DEC for harassment is really my last resort, I know his business isnt doing the best but that shouldnt give him an excuse to mess with our hunting.  I will definitely keep an eye on the trail cams as well as talking to him, thanks for the help

[Taylormike]

Although I don't envy your situation, I think stick it out and hunt hard. Things will change. I have 25 acres my neighbor has 140 and the next 200. They are good guys, good hunters, our deer too are nocturnal. He alone is not holding all the deer off the property. How's the coyote and bear population? You said you got a nice bear.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Taylormike

[bg1063]

Although I don't envy your situation, I think stick it out and hunt hard. Things will change. I have 25 acres my neighbor has 140 and the next 200. They are good guys, good hunters, our deer too are nocturnal. He alone is not holding all the deer off the property. How's the coyote and bear population? You said you got a nice bear.

 

Funny enough coyotes were really quiet this year, didn’t see one nor did I hear them, not even at night.  I also went down to New Paltz where we have seen 2 or 3 in 10 years and I had five of them come out this year alone.  Strange hunting year this year.

 

Bears are good, quite a few sows, which is what I took and we have one larger one, think its a boar, but I only got him on camera at 3am.  Took the bear in early bear season this year and she was about 6 feet long, made delicious bear sausages and am waiting for my rug to come back!

[bg1063]

By the way, I just want to thank everyone who has replied with helpful info.  I will try some new things in the new year to get ready for the next season.  I have a buddy who has 500 acres in Schoharie where we have some monsters but its just nice harvesting deer from your own land so it is a bit frustrating.  Thank God does still make good eating! Thanks again everybody!

[DirtTime]

Why not hunt the state land as well if you see bucks in there?

The harassment thing to DEC won't work. He has a right to do what ever he wants on his own land. If he wants to throw a party at 5 am with a hundred people, nothing they can do. Nothing you can do really.

 

If he was never like this before, you have to ask yourself what happened to make him start doing it. Try having a conversation with him and ask what the deal is.

[bkln]

".....The harassment thing to DEC won't work. He has a right to do what ever he wants on his own land. If he wants to throw a party at 5 am with a hundred people, nothing they can do. Nothing you can do really...."

 

That's not really 100% true, you can call cops, EPA and DEC for him for noise abatement laws, plus if you establish a pattern of his behavior and his known anti-hunting statements.... you might have some harassing thing going... Lots of work but you could try....

[DirtTime]

".....The harassment thing to DEC won't work. He has a right to do what ever he wants on his own land. If he wants to throw a party at 5 am with a hundred people, nothing they can do. Nothing you can do really...."

 

That's not really 100% true, you can call cops, EPA and DEC for him for noise abatement laws, plus if you establish a pattern of his behavior and his known anti-hunting statements.... you might have some harassing thing going... Lots of work but you could try....

 

 

True. But, the most he might get is a slap on the hand. There are no laws saying you can't ride your own ATV on your own land anytime you choose. Not like he's slashing tires or vandalizing. He's doin' his own thing on his own land. He might be acting like a doink, but, in reality, he's not breaking any real laws.

[JFB]

".....The harassment thing to DEC won't work. He has a right to do what ever he wants on his own land. If he wants to throw a party at 5 am with a hundred people, nothing they can do. Nothing you can do really...."

 

That's not really 100% true, you can call cops, EPA and DEC for him for noise abatement laws, plus if you establish a pattern of his behavior and his known anti-hunting statements.... you might have some harassing thing going... Lots of work but you could try....

 

I'd attempt to speak to him for an attempt to work it out, and I'd also tape record the conversation on my phone knowing that he will probably admit to doing it to bother you. NY is a one party consent state and that means your own consent is enough to legally tape him without knowledge. 

 

Then, like stated above, when he continues and you call the DEC you may force their hand for them to press this guy to stop. With a pattern, warning, and possibly a tape recording you may get traction with the lazy DEC. 

 

Lastly, it's hard not to over pressure 20 acres. Consider hunting the state land to lay off your own a bit. 

[bg1063]

True. But, the most he might get is a slap on the hand. There are no laws saying you can't ride your own ATV on your own land anytime you choose. Not like he's slashing tires or vandalizing. He's doin' his own thing on his own land. He might be acting like a doink, but, in reality, he's not breaking any real laws.

 

New York Environmental Conservation - Title 1 - § 11-0110

§ 11-0110. Interference with lawful taking of wildlife prohibited.

1. As used in this section “wildlife” means wild game and all other

animal life existing in a wild state, including fish, shellfish and crustacea, and “process of taking”, in addition to any act described in subdivision thirteen of section 11-0103 of this article, includes travel, camping, and other acts preparatory to taking, which occur on lands or waters upon which the affected person has the right or privilege to take such wildlife.

2. A person is guilty of interfering with the lawful taking of wildlife when, with intent to prevent the taking of wildlife, in season, in a place where hunting, fishing or trapping is lawful, and by a person properly licensed to take such wildlife, he:

(a) strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects the licensed person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same; or

( follows the licensed person in or about such place and engages in

a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which alarm or seriously annoy such licensed person and which serve no legitimate purpose.

Notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, no one shall be arrested for violation of this section by other than a duly designated peace officer acting pursuant to his special duties, or a police officer. 

 

 

This is the NYS law verbatim, isn’t he following a licensed person in or about such place? Again if he has family up they will occasionally ride ATVs but its never at 5am everyday like he does during hunting season.  Not to mention he has already trespassed onto my property to hang Safety Zone and No Trespassing signs…kind of ironic that he is hanging no trespassing signs while trespassing…...

[bg1063]

 

New York Environmental Conservation - Title 1 - § 11-0110

§ 11-0110. Interference with lawful taking of wildlife prohibited.

1. As used in this section “wildlife” means wild game and all other

animal life existing in a wild state, including fish, shellfish and crustacea, and “process of taking”, in addition to any act described in subdivision thirteen of section 11-0103 of this article, includes travel, camping, and other acts preparatory to taking, which occur on lands or waters upon which the affected person has the right or privilege to take such wildlife.

2. A person is guilty of interfering with the lawful taking of wildlife when, with intent to prevent the taking of wildlife, in season, in a place where hunting, fishing or trapping is lawful, and by a person properly licensed to take such wildlife, he:

(a) strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects the licensed person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same; or

( follows the licensed person in or about such place and engages in

a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which alarm or seriously annoy such licensed person and which serve no legitimate purpose.

Notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, no one shall be arrested for violation of this section by other than a duly designated peace officer acting pursuant to his special duties, or a police officer. 

 

 

This is the NYS law verbatim, isn’t he following a licensed person in or about such place? Again if he has family up they will occasionally ride ATVs but its never at 5am everyday like he does during hunting season.  Not to mention he has already trespassed onto my property to hang Safety Zone and No Trespassing signs…kind of ironic that he is hanging no trespassing signs while trespassing…...

 

 

 

The emoji is just supposed to be a “b” wrapped in parenthesis, i guess it is also a shortcut for emoji with sunglasses..lol 

so kindly disregard the smiley face, thats actually not part of the NYS law haha

[growalot]

Document EVERY THING....sounds like a non hunter...when you say opening day are you talking bow or gun?...perhaps he dislikes bow hunters....ya know...getting HIS buck before he gets a chance...lol

[bg1063]

Document EVERY THING....sounds like a non hunter...when you say opening day are you talking bow or gun?...perhaps he dislikes bow hunters....ya know...getting HIS buck before he gets a chance...lol

 

No its everyday of the season, he starts his 5am drives on opening day of bow and keeps it going everyday hes up there, below is a sign posted on my property...

 

 

I’m going try talking to him again before spring turkey, hopefully we can work it out, hes never had an issue until his business started doing poorly and he started stressing out like crazy, i feel bad but he doesnt have to take it out on my hunting, its what i love to do and its super aggravating

[BizCT]

This Russian spammer is going nuts on every thread

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[bg1063]

This Russian spammer is going nuts on every thread

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Yea its crazy, like people need help finding porn on the internet….Christ if finding big bucks was as easy as finding porn none of us would be here

[BizCT]

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[bg1063]

LOL nice