Get your vaseline ready NY! Its here...

[Jmythngdmb]

Mostly 8X and 8T...I really believe that it is mostly because they would rather say " I shot a six point , but he wasn't bad for a BOW buck" than say they shot a doe.. They figure they can use their DMPs or MZ tags for meat deer...

I am just speculating on their motives...

Fair enough, thanks that's interesting actually.

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[dbHunterNY]

Mostly 8X and 8T...I really believe that it is mostly because they would rather say " I shot a six point , but he wasn't bad for a BOW buck" than say they shot a doe.. They figure they can use their DMPs or MZ tags for meat deer...

I am just speculating on their motives...

 

I know many of those people out this way.  they say just what you typed.  they're only shoot a doe as a last resort, but would rather fill all their tags they can with bucks.  the opportunity is less so they feel it's more of an accomplishment.  some simply don't believe in shooting doe but freezer needing to be filled trumps the reluctance for many, especially come late season with a ML.  the amount of procrastination just depends on the hunter and how many deer that freezer needs to have.

[genesee_mohican]

Is that because they have a specific buck patterned and they don't want to mess it up? Just curious, because my group will shot as many doe as they have tags, I'm curious why the drastic difference in our ways. And what unit are they in?

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I think a lot of bow hunters (myself and friends included) know they will put the time in during bow, gun and late season to get a few deer. Taking a doe with a bow is fun but I usually wait until gun or black powder season when the temps are cooler. I'm not in a doe only area but I'd take a doe early this year if given the chance because I'm out of tasty venison.

[Jmythngdmb]

I think a lot of bow hunters (myself and friends included) know they will put the time in during bow, gun and late season to get a few deer. Taking a doe with a bow is fun but I usually wait until gun or black powder season when the temps are cooler. I'm not in a doe only area but I'd take a doe early this year if given the chance because I'm out of tasty venison.

I understand, I used to hunt a lot but I'm back in school, got married and just had a baby. Although I hunt mostly outside of the affected area, time constraints have seriously altered my ability to get out there and be choosy. And it just so happens that's closest spot I can go is IN the affected area so it's a bit of a double whammy I didn't see coming. I'll be lucky to kill anything this year which is why the limitation is an issue for me personally. I'm not going to let get to me though.

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[Doc]

One thing that this thread has really brought to light is just how much animosity there really is from gun hunters toward bow hunters. I always suspected that it was a much bigger problem than is generally acknowledged, but the comments on this thread plus a lot of other sources, is showing an increasing divide in the hunting community based on the use of a bow.

[The_Field_Ager]

I hunt bow and gun with equally ferocity and gusto. I do prefer the process of bow hunting slightly, but hiking through the Adirondacks with a rifle slung, is also exhilarating.

 

I wonder what the spread is in terms of folk who shoot both vs one or the other? Are there numbers?

 

I personally don't understand the animosity. It's all the one thing for me.

[orion]

One thing that this thread has really brought to light is just how much animosity there really is from gun hunters toward bow hunters. I always suspected that it was a much bigger problem than is generally acknowledged, but the comments on this thread plus a lot of other sources, is showing an increasing divide in the hunting community based on the use of a bow.

 

I don't know about that. I'm sure I'm one of the ones you think has all this animosity to bowhunters.

 

But here is how I see it playing out,

 

DEC wants the antlers deer take to increase 

Archers have the longest season in the affected areas

Archers shoot the Lowest % of antlerless deer

The DEC is giving archers the chance to increase that harvest so they don't need to bring guns in to archery season

DEC is reading this thread and knows the deer take won't increase

Archers don't shoot does 

DEC will plan to implement two week doe only muzzleloader season

Bowhunters will bitch about the early Oct gun season and not being able to hunt undisturbed deer

DEC moves early muzzleloader to the last two weeks (THE BEST FOR BOWHUNTING)

Bowhunters lose the best two weeks of archery season

 

But lets keep bitching and refusing to shoot the doe in the areas needed!

 

It's not animosity  It's a wake-up call!

[wolc123]

The biggest divide I see is between the small minority of bow-hunters who are fighting desperately to keep the x-bow out of archery season, and the majority of hunters who would like to see full inclusion. I see full inclusion of crossbow as the best way to control the deer population in those areas that are now subject to the "doe-only" restriction for the first 2 weeks of archery and ML season.

Killing does in these areas with a vertical bow is much easier said than done. The areas are infested with groups of antlerless deer and it is nearly impossible to draw a bow on one individual without alerting the group. Shooting lone bucks of any age is like taking candy from a baby in comparison. Those doe groups also become mostly nocturnal as soon as they detect some hunting pressure and certainly after they hear the first shot or two when gun season opens.

The silent crossbow that does not have to be drawn quickly with the group in close is the ultimate answer for reducing the deer population in the areas that need it. Basically, the selfish effort of that minority of bowhunters to keep x-bows out of archery has blown up in their face and now no one can take bucks in these areas during those periods. The part of it that bothers me the most is the loss of the opportunity to take a buck during ML season.

[The_Field_Ager]

 

Archers shoot the Lowest % of antlerless deer

 

 

 

Archers shoot the lowest number of deer, full stop. There is a reason for that.

 

The 2014 take for the NZ was as follows:

 

12,668 -gun

 

1,752  - bow

 

Southern Zone:

 

62,262  gun

 

32,476  bow

 

Bow is at least twice as difficult to use to harvest a deer, for all the obvious reasons.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Papist

[WNYBuckHunter]

Sorry WNY none of it is bull.

 

And bowhunters don't shoot the same % of antlerless deer as gun hunters or muzzleloaders.

 

Sorry It's the truth. 

 

I agree that they dont, thats not what Im saying is bull. they are simply far less effective than guns. Try reading what I typed again, but slow down this time and let it soak in.

[NonTypical]

Here on Long Island, we used to be able to shoot a doe using a DMP. Then have it checked in and we would get another tag for a deer of either sex, and keep doing that until you shot a buck, then that tag would be dead. They took that incentive away from us last year. Why??? I have no idea. We can get as many as 4 DMP's per person without sharing them. I like many others, would fill a few tags during the course of the season. Then at least during the late gun or bow season, we would still have some deer of either sex DMP's left just in case we had an opportunity to harvest a buck. That would rarely happen, so more often than not, we would end up just harvesting another doe.

What they should have done is have an earn a buck program where you have to shoot 2 or even 3 does before you could harvest a buck. When hunting on a certain federal wildlife refuge here on the island, they require you to shoot 2 does before you can shoot a buck. It has worked pretty damn good in there by knocking the numbers right down.

I can guarantee you that if the state imposed an earn a buck program, at least here in 1C, there would be many hunters willing to stack up the does at some point during the season. Without a doubt, the population here on the island is out of control and something does need to be done about it. Instead of taking incentives away from the ones who can help control it in heavily populated areas, they should be creating incentives like an earn a buck program.

Edited August 8, 2015 by NonTypical

[orion]

I'm trying to slow down here so bear with me.

 

Archery is far less effective then guns.

 

 

Agreed

 

So exactly how does this effect the ratio of antlered to antlerless deer take?

 

 

[The_Field_Ager]

 

 

So exactly how does this effect the ratio of antlered to antlerless deer take?

 

 

It doesn't effect ratio. It effects the over-goal in terms of basic numbers. Bow is not the tool to use to reduce the numbers of female deer, if indeed that is your goal.In 3 seasons of Bow hunting I have had exactly 1 doe within shooting range. And yes, I shot her. 

[SteveB]

Killing does in these areas with a vertical bow is much easier said than done.

And again you list your own limitations and lack of skills as fact for all.

[landtracdeerhunter]

Next Book malfunction!

Edited August 8, 2015 by landtracdeerhunter

[landtracdeerhunter]

NY. DEC. Enviormentalists, read this!

What makes you think, their are to many doe in these areas, you have minds made up to kill off? Habitat is some of the best in these areas of the state. News flash; habitat supports deer density. Factors for which the decision making process is curved, stink to high heaven in this state! I refuse to sit back and listen to you "so called" experts tell me their are to many deer in my area. I shoot a doe, but not until after the main breeding season. Boys, that won't change with a future firearms in bow, with this hunter!

Side note Doc; I am a bow hunter and DAM PROUD OF IT!

Edited August 8, 2015 by landtracdeerhunter

[orion]

It doesn't effect ratio. It effects the over-goal in terms of basic numbers. Bow is not the tool to use to reduce the numbers of female deer, if indeed that is your goal.In 3 seasons of Bow hunting I have had exactly 1 doe within shooting range. And yes, I shot her. 

 

And then what's the next step for DEC?

 

Guns in archery season, I guess thats what everyone wants.

 

It's plain and simple if we don't shoot the does in come guns!

 

So at least get the % the same so you have a somewhat legit argument

[The_Field_Ager]

And then what's the next step for DEC?

 

Guns in archery season, I guess thats what everyone wants.

 

It's plain and simple if we don't shoot the does in come guns!

 

So at least get the % the same so you have a somewhat legit argument

 

 

This would mean the Dec has adopted some kind of bizarre Pavlovian approach to managing hunter attitude,culture, and goals. Shifting dates won't change any of that to any extent that matters.

 

And frankly, I don't believe we have an over abundance of doe. I am seeing the exact opposite in my area. I won't be shooting doe at all in 2015 as a result of personally observed lower doe numbers. Significantly lower. 4 or 5 years ago I was seeing groups of 8 or more doe passing through the property daily. Now we are down to two or three lone animals that occasionally I catch on camera, and I have not had eyes on a doe in our woods at all this summer during daylight hours. That is a first for me.

[growalot]

 

The DEC is giving archers the chance to increase that harvest so they don't need to bring guns in to archery season

 

No  they are NOT...We get two dmps and an either sex...Not one bow hunter should be expected to burn their either sex on a doe the first 2 weeks...Many of us have more then one area of the state to hunt in and hunt other seasons..so we go for  split tags...that leaves us with ONE doe tag to use that first 2wks. It isnot until NOV. 1 that we can go for any extra DMPs

[growalot]

Speaking of #'s and %"  both of which the DEC does not seem to be able to pin down for deer #'s ...How about when they kill off all these doe they want to kill off (which can't happen with this ridiculous plan)  and the predators come into play. Have they tried to get a handle on the coyote population #'s ? Hey folks they are increasing rapidly...we started seeing it in the 8X camp  5 years ago and now her in 8N...my cams are picking up coyotes on every part of our 73 acres they are coming in close to the house howling and yipping at night and they are hunting in at least pairs. The DEC won't have to worry about saving young buck for if these predators do not have young doe and fawns to eat you can bet they will go after the  tired after rut young and older buck... Again the DEC not managing things across the whole picture. God help hunting here if we get another winter like last on top of it.... Which I promise you will YET AGAIN result in a Oopppss back tracking and no doe permits for years to come.

[Five Seasons]

Sorry WNY none of it is bull.

And bowhunters don't shoot the same % of antlerless deer as gun hunters or muzzleloaders.

Sorry It's the truth.

There are more gun hunters so of course they shoot more. And statistically 95%+ of bow hunters also gun hunt. So what does it matter when I shoot my doe?

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[turkeyfeathers]

Well , to add fuel to the fire , my sons and I take doe during the summer with Crop Damage Permits . I got my foot in the door when a Farmer was interviewed on tv complaining out losing thousands of dollars in crops due to deer . Many hunters look down on this but the farmer doesn't get enough deer taken . There are a few other guys who also take deer off of the guys farm fields . 

Nothing better than a summer taken deer to eat. Buddy hooked me up with a bunch a few years back as he was doing the same thing. I swear you can taste the difference in a browse eating deer vs a berry and grass eating deer.

[Five Seasons]

and the finger pointing and infighting has begun...........

It's pretty shitty a few gun hunters think their fellow hunters deserve what we got. Honestly that hurts even more than the reg itself.

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[Five Seasons]

I don't want to offend anybody, and since I no longer bowhunt, I don't have a dog in this fight, but just as an observation, I can't think of a single one of my bowhunting friends who shoots does with his bow.

These same guys don't seem to have any problem shooting does for meat during gun season or late MZ season...

As I said...Not to draw fire, only an observation..

A dead doe is still a dead doe though right?

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[Five Seasons]

One thing that this thread has really brought to light is just how much animosity there really is from gun hunters toward bow hunters. I always suspected that it was a much bigger problem than is generally acknowledged, but the comments on this thread plus a lot of other sources, is showing an increasing divide in the hunting community based on the use of a bow.

Haters going to hate. We get labeled as elitist and honestly that doesn't bother me. Almost all bow hunters I know are very dedicated, well trained and knowledgable. Doesn't mean the gun only guys aren't, but generally you have to be good to bow hunt. Those that don't have the patience will quit. So somehow then we get hated on for being successful.

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