Missed Bucks?

[monkeyman2269]

I bought apples from beak and skiff. So what? Am I a poacher because I bought something a deer would eat? Too much assumption, everyone is so critical of everything someone else does without knowing any facts.

It says deer corn with a picture of a deer on it lol

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[Caveman]

This is contributing to the thread derailment, but studies have consistently shown that consistency of punishment is far more effective at reducing crime than severity of punishment. In other words, if you want less poachers, more calls to the tip lines and more boots on the ground enforcing the regs would be far more effective than a lifetime ban for insignificant infractions.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Not by the definition of our DEC.  I know that sentence sounds counter intuitive, but it is a reality.

 

People like me, who get to shoot 2 bucks basically (bow and gun) its not hard to track.  2 deer, 2 tags, 2 phone calls.  Done.  If a DEC official ever wanted to check my freezer, or garage, or trophy room, it would be very easy to count and verify.

 

On the flip side, I run into people who have nuisence permits, dmp tags, their family have tags that they "share," etc.  What happens, is people go out and shoot as many deer as they want.  I have an acquintance who, between him and his 2 sons, shoot probably 10 deer every year.  I promise you they don't have 10 tags, maybe more like 6 or 7 total between them.  They shoot so many deer, half of them are cut up in the freezer before they are ever tagged.  Sure, they use their 6 tags and make it look legal and nobody knows the difference.  There is no way in hell you could ever really tell if they shot 7 or 8 or 9.  They know it and the DEC knows it.

 

This is rampant in NYS.

 

 

Between 3 guys, it wouldnt be tough to have 10 tags. I have 4 in my pocket right now that I could use today, plus 4 DMAPs at the farm I hunt. I could legally shoot 8 deer today and  then get 2 more DMPs after Nov 1, shoot three deer during gun, then go buy my ML tag and shoot another one in late season. Thats 12 deer by myself.

 

[beachpeaz]

Actually i quoted the entire post.

 

Do you think any state that has a mentored youth season has any way of verifying who pulled the trigger? Of course not. NY isnt alone on the difficulties of enforcing laws. Dont fool yourself. I would say that the vast majority of regulation infractions in hunting, no mater what state they are committed in, are not discovered by law enforcement.

 

Go back and read what I said, I didnt compare NY to the middle east. I was talking about the punishment fitting the crime.

 

Honestly, I dont think poaching is the worst crime in the world, and in the grand scheme of things, killing a game animal is pretty insignificant. Do I think poaching is right? No.

 

Wow, so the moderator of this forum is saying that poaching is no big deal.  You are entitled to your opinion I suppose.  I believe that all life deserves the highest level of respect.  Poaching is a big deal.  The taking of a life illegally doesn't sit well with me.  You can justify it any way you want, but that will never make it "insignificant."  I'm done with this conversation.  Not worth my energy debating with people on a very black & white topic.

 

 

[chrisw]

I bought apples from beak and skiff. So what? Am I a poacher because I bought something a deer would eat? Too much assumption, everyone is so critical of everything someone else does without knowing any facts.

It says deer corn with a picture of a deer on it lol

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So if it said "chicken/duck corn" you wouldn't have thought he was baiting deer? I'm not attacking you personally but there is way too much assumption and unfounded accusations in social media today. Maybe he was going to bait deer, maybe he has a farm. Doesnt matter. It isn't illegal to buy corn during hunting season, Ag stores sell a lot of feed year round.

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[nyantler]

I saw a rich guy buying 4 50 pound bags of corn at country max don't know what for lol

 

How do you know he was rich?

[monkeyman2269]

He was in a suit driving a landrover

[beachpeaz]

Between 3 guys, it wouldnt be tough to have 10 tags. I have 4 in my pocket right now that I could use today, plus 4 DMAPs at the farm I hunt. I could legally shoot 8 deer today and  then get 2 more DMPs after Nov 1, shoot three deer during gun, then go buy my ML tag and shoot another one in late season. Thats 12 deer by myself.

 

 

It was an EXAMPLE dude, good grief.  And maybe they had 36 permits and shot 40 deer.  You are just proving my point.  The more permits you have, the EASIER it is to shoot extra deer without anyone knowing. You can shoot 12, you think anyone could tell if you shot 13 instead?  Probably not with 600 lbs of venison in your freezer.  If you only had 1 tag, you think it would be obvious if you had 600lbs of venison in your freezer???  That would be one big deer if that were the case. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It was an EXAMPLE dude, good grief.  And maybe they had 36 permits and shot 40 deer.  You are just proving my point.  The more permits you have, the EASIER it is to shoot extra deer without anyone knowing. You can shoot 12, you think anyone could tell if you shot 13 instead?  Probably not with 600 lbs of venison in your freezer.  If you only had 1 tag, you think it would be obvious if you had 600lbs of venison in your freezer???  That would be one big deer if that were the case. 

So if we reduce everyone in the state down to one tag and allow only one deer we can get a better handle on poaching?

 

What we need it stiff but fair fines. we need DEC to get funding from the fines to encourage their enforcement and help fund even more officers.

 

But I do agree with WNY. Poaching, in the grand scheme of things is not all that significant. it really is like gun crime. You are never going to stop it if someone is set on doing it.

 

I am wondering though. Your friend that you are so sure that he and sons take illegal deer, ever turn him in?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Wow, so the moderator of this forum is saying that poaching is no big deal.  You are entitled to your opinion I suppose.  I believe that all life deserves the highest level of respect.  Poaching is a big deal.  The taking of a life illegally doesn't sit well with me.  You can justify it any way you want, but that will never make it "insignificant."  I'm done with this conversation.  Not worth my energy debating with people on a very black & white topic.

 

Thats not what I said, and you know it. Glad to see you are one of the type that will twist other peoples words to try and make your point. Nice discussion skills.

[WNYBuckHunter]

It was an EXAMPLE dude, good grief.  And maybe they had 36 permits and shot 40 deer.  You are just proving my point.  The more permits you have, the EASIER it is to shoot extra deer without anyone knowing. You can shoot 12, you think anyone could tell if you shot 13 instead?  Probably not with 600 lbs of venison in your freezer.  If you only had 1 tag, you think it would be obvious if you had 600lbs of venison in your freezer???  That would be one big deer if that were the case. 

 

Im not proving anything other than you assume too much.

 

Even if I had 1 tag, its legal for other people to give me the meat from their deer, so I could have 600lbs of vension in my freezer, and it would be perfectly legal.

[Five Seasons]

i guess it's not surprising this thread went in the direction it did. To be honest I was really hoping to keep it as more of a journal. I know some outdoor writers lurk here and would not be surprised if some DEC do as well. But they're not going to read through 20 pages of bitching. They might however skim through a few pages of frustrated bow hunters.

[beachpeaz]

My aplogies Belo.  I even wrote that I wasn't tryign to go that route, but contributed to the mess.  It just pisses me off when people downplay poaching.  As stated though, not worth my time to argue and I am done with it.  I hope this post resumes a normal intended purpose for you.  It will from my side.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Noone was downplaying poaching.

[turkeyfeathers]

He was in a suit driving a landrover

That only suggests he has a little weiner

[johnplav]

I let a nice 6 point pass under my stand in 8H.  Wasn't feeling temptation, just disgust with a nonsensical law.  And for the record, I didnt get a chance to harvest a doe that day... so as expected, the "antler-less deer only" rule proved ineffective in this case.

[Nomad]

He was in a suit driving a landrover

So he makes enough for a few hundred a month lease and a suit.

[landtracdeerhunter]

I saw a rich guy buying 4 50 pound bags of corn at country max don't know what for lol

 

How do you know he was a guy? LOL

[Danny]

I saw a rich guy buying 4 50 pound bags of corn at country max don't know what for lol

Maybe he was hunting PA, maybe he owns chickens who knows

[moog5050]

Not to derail this thread, but did I mention I leased a new landrover.  Plenty of space inside for all the hunting necessities.  In fact, I fit 4 50lb bags of corn it from country max.

 

 

You guys kill me. 

Edited October 7, 2015 by moog5050

[nyantler]

He was in a suit driving a landrover

I must be a billionaire then... LMAO.. I have 2 suits and once owned a 1977 $4000 Mercedes!! ... I'm pretty sure a rich guy wouldn't be doing his own shopping at Country Max. Maybe he just had a job.

I apologize, sometimes I just can't help myself.

Edited October 7, 2015 by nyantler

[Doc]

NYS = the biggest poaching state in all the land.  Period.

 

The DEC practically encourages it with the ridiculous amount of permits handed out, "youth" gun hunts during bow season, now "Units" where you can and can't shoot deer, zero field personnel monitoring laws then,  Throw on top of that the fact that you don't even get in trouble for breaking the law......disgusting.

 

I'm all for a lifetime ban.  Jail time.  Hefty fines.  All of the above.  You break the law, you pay.  You are the one responsible to know the law.  Ignorance as a reason doesn't sit well with me.

You know, I really love that rule that "ignorance of the law is no excuse" and I love the condescending tone that usually goes along with. One of these days I would like to meet that mythical person who knows everything that's in those volumes and volumes of Environmental Conservation Laws. And that would include judges, J.P.s, and even the DEC law enforcement people (and at least those people all have the law books to refer to when they are looking for a "pinch" or conviction). Yes it is true that ignorance of the law is not a legal defense, but please do not try to come across with this holier-than-thou attitude pretending that you know all the conservation laws. Nobody really is buying it.

 

Yes, you are likely breaking laws every season that you are unaware of, so don't be so damned ready to demand the violator's first born, as though it could never happen to you.

[phade]

Not to derail this thread, but did I mention I leased a new landrover.  Plenty of space inside for all the hunting necessities.  In fact, I fit 4 50lb bags of corn it from country max.

 

 

You guys kill me. 

 

 

BTW, for the record, this guy got blood ALL over his carpeted tailgate this past weekend. Should have seen him weep.

[Caveman]

I thought the purpose of all the tarps was to protect the bed rug?

[thphm]

Whey do most of these threads wind up off of the original subject and a P*****g  match between the same people on every thread, gets pretty boring reading the same BS .