When Anti-Gun Isn't 100% Anti-Gun

[DirtTime]

I have been mulling over a conversation I had this afternoon. I really don't know how to convey it, it was the most surreal conversation on gun control I have ever had.

One one hand, a person stated they had no issues with people owing "firearms" to hunt. But, they were against owning a "firearm" for self defense. Another person said they wanted to learn how to shoot, but had no interest in owning a "gun".

WTF!

It got political for a while, I was getting PO'ed, lost my cool, and stated, "Look at the world we live in, if you watch the news you can't even trust co-workers who have glowing backgrounds. Look at that **** that went down in CA, and all the nut-bags killing just to kill! You think your politicians care about you? They don't! All they care about is lining their pockets, adding to their bank accounts and allowing stupid ******* morons to attack our country! I don't give a rats *** if you are a Democrat, Republican, Liberal, or rooting for the independent, you are are *** ***** American and what's best for this country should be a priority! Gun control won't keep weapons out of the enemies hands!"

 

After about a two minute pause with everyone looking at me all slack jawed, the subject was changed. I felt embarrassed for the outburst, and proud at the same time.

Then they said, "When are we doing this again?".

 

I said, it was the most surreal account of gun control I have ever had.

[Doc]

I think that most gun control advocates see the problem purely as being the gun, and fail to make the connection to the person pulling the trigger. The guy who said that they wanted to learn how to shoot, but had no interest in owning a "gun", clearly shows a dissociation between the gun and the shooter. To that one, the gun all by itself is evil, even when it is sitting locked up with no one around it.

 

And then there was the other one who does not condone firearms for self defense. Those people apparently don't realize that when seconds count in life threatening situations, the police are just minutes away. In other words they believe that government law enforcement agencies are actually going to save your live if you just wait for them to arrive. The fact is that such confrontations are so frightening to consider that they simply have blocked reality right out of their minds.

 

I don't know how you combat such irrational thinking as that. I guess you simply can't.

[philoshop]

I simply remind anti-gun people that they have the right to not own a gun. Don't like 'em, don't own one.

[chas0218]

I tell them I will send them your way if they need to rob/kill someone defenseless. 

 

That is when you look around and see them picking their jaws off the floor.

 

I don't try to take other people's rights away and they are entitled to them as I am to mine, So I don't expect them to take my rights away although they try.

[22Plinker]

I think that most gun control advocates see the problem purely as being the gun, and fail to make the connection to the person pulling the trigger. The guy who said that they wanted to learn how to shoot, but had no interest in owning a "gun", clearly shows a dissociation between the gun and the shooter. To that one, the gun all by itself is evil, even when it is sitting locked up with no one around it.

 

And then there was the other one who does not condone firearms for self defense. Those people apparently don't realize that when seconds count in life threatening situations, the police are just minutes away. In other words they believe that government law enforcement agencies are actually going to save your live if you just wait for them to arrive. The fact is that such confrontations are so frightening to consider that they simply have blocked reality right out of their minds.

 

I don't know how you combat such irrational thinking as that. I guess you simply can't.

 

That is a very basic generalization which may indeed be true, but then again perhaps the first gentleman didn't want to own a gun because he had young children.  Perhaps he felt he lacked the education or experience to safely and ethically have a weapon.  Perhaps he just didn't want one for no other reason than not wanting one.

 

It's very easy to generalize because a lot of it is true, but if you don't ask them why, you will never know the truth.  That is a flaw on both sides of this argument...  many 2a supporters use 'anti-gun" generalizations such not wanting to own a gun means they think the gun is evil.

 

Many anti-gun people make the generalization that they won't save your life because they read an article about gun carriers being shot or having their weapons taken from them.  It's actually difficult not to work with generalizations because they are prompted by emotion and opinion, but just like stereotypes... they exist because often they are true.

 

2A can support their position with a myriad of honest to goodness facts based on both research and observation, while anti-gun supporters can do the same.  How does this happen you may ask?  Because besides "facts", our observations, except direct personal observation, are based on media bias we choose to follow.  The left reports gun crimes of their preference while the right does the same.

 

Ultimately in the situation the OP presented I would just hope that no matter what position you take regarding gun ownership... I hope they are never in a position to need a weapon for self defense... and if they ever are in that situation... that some sane gun owner and carrier is willing to accept the non carriers position and save him anyway despite their idealistic views

[ApexerER]

I get so wound up talking gun control. Now I don't really have any conversations with people that outright want guns taken away but more with people that don't understand. The first thing I tell them is it doesn't matter what they think because we are a republic and not a democracy. So if 99% of the people wanted guns eliminated it can't happen because the 2nd amendment protects our rights to keep and bear arms. To me it can't be stated any more clearly then "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". Most of the time they say well people should have background checks. And I say, I agree, and you can't purchase a gun without a background check unless you purchase from a criminal. Most of the time they don't know this because it is pounded into their head that anyone can just go purchase a gun. I let them know that isn't the case and that the government wants to create a data base of gun owners.....Why would they want to do that? I just had this conversation with my best friends dad and it was pretty heated. He said well if we can save just one childs life...I said you got that quote from our douch president and his oh so passionate speech on gun control where he had to wipe the tears....I said why doesn't he have that same passion with say illegals....You know if we rounded them all up we would save a childs life or two....Why doesn't he feel that way about terrorists? You know if we went after them, kept surveys on them, didn't let them in our country we would save a childs life....ask yourself why guns....why not the bad guys. Then I remind them that I walk around in the woods with 20 guys all with loaded firearms...Nobody gets shot...I don't even think about it...To me it is such common sense, when someone else doesn't see it that I way I get all fired up....I really get mad when someone says they see the need for the safe act. I break out my Ruger 10/22 that is now unthankfully back to its stock form. I then grab my other stock that used to be on it and ask them why they are safer because I don't have this stock on my gun. Its the same freaking firearm...I tell them people that don't know anything about guns shouldn't be making up gun laws.....Most of the time I think they see my point...

[22Plinker]

 The first thing I tell them is it doesn't matter what they think because we are a republic and not a democracy. So if 99% of the people wanted guns eliminated it can't happen because the 2nd amendment protects our rights to keep and bear arms. To me it can't be stated any more clearly then "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

 

I am absolutely not arguing the rights of the 2nd amendment, BUT be careful what you say.  It's not like amendments can't be repealed.  21st repealed the 18th.  Not that I am saying it would likely ever happen... but the function and precedent to repeal constitutional amendments exists and has happened.  It COULD happen again.  I certainly hope not

 

[ApexerER]

I am absolutely not arguing the rights of the 2nd amendment, BUT be careful what you say.  It's not like amendments can't be repealed.  21st repealed the 18th.  Not that I am saying it would likely ever happen... but the function and precedent to repeal constitutional amendments exists and has happened.  It COULD happen again.  I certainly hope not

 

I understand it can happen (the thought scares the poop out of me) but that is how I start every gun control argument....Quite frankly if we keep going in the direction we are going, I wouldn't be surprised if it is repealed in my lifetime....It is already treaded on pretty directly....With Scalia no longer on the supreme court....it may get treaded on even worse...

[22Plinker]

I understand it can happen (the thought scares the poop out of me) but that is how I start every gun control argument....Quite frankly if we keep going in the direction we are going, I wouldn't be surprised if it is repealed in my lifetime....It is already treaded on pretty directly....With Scalia no longer on the supreme court....it may get treaded on even worse...

 

Totally agree it scares the unholy hell out of me the direction things are moving and the changes just in my lifetime.  I try my best to hold out hope that some rational human being will quit focusing on one or two "small" specifics and look at the big picture.  All these gun laws have an impact greater than just what the average law abiding gun owner sees how it affects them.  Look at all the gun and ammo related business that would be affected with these laws.  It's insane to think politicians would be willing to do such massive damage to our economy.

 

I'm not trying in any way to make light the affects these proposed gun laws would have on the safety of our population.  It's one thing to see how they would affect 30,000 people per year directly affected by gun related crime... but imagine how the close of hundreds if not thousands of businesses employing tens if not hundreds of thousands of employees would have near collapse scale effects on our economy. 

 

Just the Remington plant in Ilion had a massive impact on the local economy.  Imagine handfuls of that in each state across the country all within a short period of time.  I think i am talking myself into a nightmare

[ApexerER]

Totally agree it scares the unholy hell out of me the direction things are moving and the changes just in my lifetime.  I try my best to hold out hope that some rational human being will quit focusing on one or two "small" specifics and look at the big picture.  All these gun laws have an impact greater than just what the average law abiding gun owner sees how it affects them.  Look at all the gun and ammo related business that would be affected with these laws.  It's insane to think politicians would be willing to do such massive damage to our economy.

 

I'm not trying in any way to make light the affects these proposed gun laws would have on the safety of our population.  It's one thing to see how they would affect 30,000 people per year directly affected by gun related crime... but imagine how the close of hundreds if not thousands of businesses employing tens if not hundreds of thousands of employees would have near collapse scale effects on our economy. 

 

Just the Remington plant in Ilion had a massive impact on the local economy.  Imagine handfuls of that in each state across the country all within a short period of time.  I think i am talking myself into a nightmare

I agree, rational is out the window....Scary times....my daughter is 11 and I have a couple of younger nephews. The world they grow up in is going to be a lot different and from what I am seeing...it won't be better...

[DirtTime]

One one hand, a person stated they had no issues with people owing "firearms" to hunt. But, they were against owning a "firearm" for self defense.

 

This was from a woman.

 

Another person said they wanted to learn how to shoot, but had no interest in owning a "gun".

 

This was from a man.

 

 

I really just felt both comments were oxymoron's. As a gun owner, if someone breaks into my home and they are armed I will defend my family and property. With the same gun I use to hunt with. Why learn to shoot of you do not have intention to own a gun?

 

I get that people have weird thoughts and issues with guns, but, this particular conversation was dizzyingly hard to get a grip on. 

 

As for saving someone I know was anti-gun or hunting? I would do that without a second thought. 

Edited February 22, 2016 by ....rob

[Steve D]

Totally agree it scares the unholy hell out of me the direction things are moving and the changes just in my lifetime.  I try my best to hold out hope that some rational human being will quit focusing on one or two "small" specifics and look at the big picture.  All these gun laws have an impact greater than just what the average law abiding gun owner sees how it affects them.  Look at all the gun and ammo related business that would be affected with these laws.  It's insane to think politicians would be willing to do such massive damage to our economy.

 

I'm not trying in any way to make light the affects these proposed gun laws would have on the safety of our population.  It's one thing to see how they would affect 30,000 people per year directly affected by gun related crime... but imagine how the close of hundreds if not thousands of businesses employing tens if not hundreds of thousands of employees would have near collapse scale effects on our economy. 

 

Just the Remington plant in Ilion had a massive impact on the local economy.  Imagine handfuls of that in each state across the country all within a short period of time.  I think i am talking myself into a nightmare

 

 

Want a nightmare....Heard on one of news channels today Cumo plans on making a run for president in 2020  and is already beginning to organize his supporters and lining up his donors.

[nyantler]

There are people that think that any presence of a gun in a home or on ones person is dangerous to society. They are of the belief that if there were no guns at all there would be no mass killings or killings at all. It is hard to combat that mentality... but even harder is getting people with that mentality to actually pay attention long enough to understand why their thought process is flawed. Its hard to change the minds of those that refuse to hear your side of the debate. Maybe one of those TV shows where they prank people might help... stage fake home invasions at the homes of anti-gunners... maybe then they'll pay attention.