If Full Inclusion Happens?

[Doc]

Where does every one come up with every gun hunter with a crossbow?

I understand where that thought comes from. It is simple..... Many (most?) gunhunters would love to force their way into bow seasons and enjoy the benefits that bowhunters have fought hard to establish over the years. They just don't want to use a bow and undergo all the pain of mastering that particular weapon. They want the bennys without the effort. Well now they have the crossover weapon that allows them to do that. We'll see if we become another Ohio where the bow season is now a "crossbow season" where they happen to allow you to still use your vertical bow. You have to admit that a crossbow is a very attractive alternative weapon for those who don't like all that archery form and discipline crap. So we wind up with a simple re-distributing of hunters from gun season to bow season. All those reasons that so many took up the bow for. The attempt to escape the frenetic party atmosphere of gun season for relative peace and quiet of the bowhunting world will undergo an irreversible change to something that represents a gun season without the bang.

[Lawdwaz]

Where "IT" comes from is the manufactures of the xbow, promoting the ease of implementation.  Any Tom, Dick or Harriet can gun down the unsuspecting deer, hog, turkey etc. with a xbow.

 

Things get a bit trickier in real world applications IMO.

 

The old guy with the bum shoulder is kind of a horse ball reason for the xbow.  A guy who's shoulder is bad enough that he can't shoot a vertical bow, is really going to use the xbow?

 

Cocking a xbow with a bum shoulder ain't no fun, holding a xbow with a bum shoulder ain't no fun, climbing a tree with a bum shoulder ain't no fun, gutting and dragging out a deer with a bum shoulder ain't no fun.  Face it, the xbow is for the healthy....................

Edited April 3, 2016 by Lawdwaz

[Fredbear2]

Tony skyline you opened your thoughts so I opened mine. I said I would out shoot you any day .not shoot you..come on ! And I also didn't say I shoot brown down.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Fredbear2

[Fredbear2]

Look at the post correctly! And don't turn it around. Flamingo! That's your new name cool!

[G-Man]

I understand where that thought comes from. It is simple..... Many (most?) gunhunters would love to force their way into bow seasons and enjoy the benefits that bowhunters have fought hard to establish over the years. They just don't want to use a bow and undergo all the pain of mastering that particular weapon. They want the bennys without the effort. Well now they have the crossover weapon that allows them to do that. We'll see if we become another Ohio where the bow season is now a "crossbow season" where they happen to allow you to still use your vertical bow. You have to admit that a crossbow is a very attractive alternative weapon for those who don't like all that archery form and discipline crap. So we wind up with a simple re-distributing of hunters from gun season to bow season. All those reasons that so many took up the bow for. The attempt to escape the frenetic party atmosphere of gun season for relative peace and quiet of the bowhunting world will undergo an irreversible change to something that represents a gun season without the bang.

With full inclusion comes bow course requirement. So they are educated on limitations of the equipment. The couse alone is hard to find and the instructors are not plentiful I do not see 100000 new gun hunters becoming xbow hunters during the next year if inclusion happen

If they gave the early season to the gun hunters Oct 1 till nov 7 say, then a week off and then archery season for 6 weeks would you still hunt archery ? Is the warmer weather the draw for archery? If you say Relatively calm deer remember they would settle down after a week of no gun I see it every year 3 day after gun closes the deer are out in the fields...would xbow hunter hunt this new season set up? I think the main draw is as hunters age they want warmer weather to hunt in, perhaps you hear I hope there is snow ,would the lack of snow deterany from hunting early season if it were gun? As new hunters enter archery now ,they need to know how or where to take care of a deer In the warmer weather associated with archery season.

To kill a deer even with a crossbow you still need to get close to that animal, especially if shooting off hand, yes I can shoot my crossbow 65 yards and hit a 2 in circle every time off a bench but have a hard time holding steady offhand at 30, especially in a stand. The gun hunters that invade archery season will learn this fast as well and as it happened to me I became a much better gun hunter as I learned patience and let the deer come much closer with a gun than I did when I started hunting. Perhaps gun season would calm down quite a bit if 60% of brown it's down hunters took up archery and aquired new skills...

[TonySkyline]

Look at the post correctly! And don't turn it around. Flamingo! That's your new name cool!

Lol, ok then I am not offended. But it did look like ya said you would shoot me! For the sake of us all being hunters, I love the sport either way regardless of weapon of choice. If it happens, it happens, I will accept that and gladly share the woods with a x bow hunter. Like I said, I do have a 10 point x bow and they are deadly accurate but do have their cons as well. You more than likely will never get a 2nd shot at an animal if ya don't make the 1st shot count but they are VERY accurate. I took a decent buck last year with my x bow and I would've never been able to take that same shot with my pse compound due to the nature of the shot. The bolt went through the shoulder, heart, and exited out the other shoulder. I couldn't believe the power of it. Shooting the x bow has also made me even more accurate with my rifle because it cured my flinch that I developed over the last few years. All in all man I love compounds and love the sport of archery and I like the way the seasons are now.

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[TonySkyline]

If anything, I would like more archery regardless of what kind of bow and a smaller gun season. Also maybe an antler restriction but give more doe tags to help the ratio and population control

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[Fredbear2]

Yes more doe tags need to be given . Have a camp just over Steuben county line and three of use could sit and see 15 to 20 doe easily . Last season on opening day of gun I told guys in camp i have no freaking doe tag because it was low draw there last year. So I took tags for Wayne county instead . I saw freaking 20 doe opening day and could even kill 2. This is how our system is f-ing up

[DirtTime]

Then let's go

2 weeks trad

2 weeks vertical

2 weeks xbow

Not so hot for you I bet....prolly bc you take the easy way out and shoot a compound

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I thought a traditional bow and a compound were both considered vertical bows? <`shruggs`>

 

 

As for elitist hunters? I guess I am one of those, because I want the preservation of hunting to continue for anyone who wants to hunt to be able to, and for the right to choose what weapon they take on a given day in accordance to the season. Trust me, people who look hunting as a whole are a dying breed. If you want the tradition of hunting to continue and be passed on, you need to look at the whole spectrum. Not act like a mule with blinders on.

 

I don't get the fuss over the crossbow. Just another reason for people get into tinkling matches.

 

Anyone have any factual bases as to why you are opposed to full inclusion?

[stoneam2006]

I thought a traditional bow and a compound were both considered vertical bows? <`shruggs`>

As for elitist hunters? I guess I am one of those, because I want the preservation of hunting to continue for anyone who wants to hunt to be able to, and for the right to choose what weapon they take on a given day in accordance to the season. Trust me, people who look hunting as a whole are a dying breed. If you want the tradition of hunting to continue and be passed on, you need to look at the whole spectrum. Not act like a mule with blinders on.

I don't get the fuss over the crossbow. Just another reason for people get into tinkling matches.

Anyone have any factual bases as to why you are opposed to full inclusion?

There have been a few good replies to why some are against them....if you read this thread and the other one some are ok...are they enough for me to even consider changing my view no...not even close...

Some answers have been nothing but jokes thinking they are better than the next....

Can't wait to hear it's been passed the

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[DirtTime]

What solid reasons have been given for protesting full inclusion? In either thread?

1-"I don't want 'clowns' hunting my area.".

2-"These 'clowns' will treat a crossbow like a gun.".

3-"It will add hunting pressure!".

 

1- If you don't want 'clowns' hunting your area, knock on as many private land owners doors as you can find and ask permission to hunt that land. It takes 5 minutes to ask someone for permission to hunt land. Or get a lease.

2- I highly doubt that. You cannot "spray and pray" with a crossbow.

3- If ten people in your area buy a crossbow and start hunting, it will not mean any more pressure then if ten people buy a traditional or a compound bow*.

 

*Side note; If you are hunting a 50 acre piece of public land and have an issue with other people being there, find a bigger spot.

 

Even this post makes no factual basis, but it does lean on common sense and a want for the sport to grow. 

[stoneam2006]

I'm not gonna try and remember it all but there was some good info and concerns but not enough to stop it IMO ....go read the thread I started....

O and btw I'm pro xbow incase you missed it lol

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[DirtTime]

I'm not gonna try and remember it all but there was some good info and concerns but not enough to stop it IMO ....go read the thread I started....

O and btw I'm pro xbow incase you missed it lol

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I know.

 

I am just trying to understand solid reasoning of the opposition. I could see the complaints if air rifles or ML's were added to the archery season. But a crossbow?

Like I said, if hunters want the woods to themselves, knock on doors and get permission to hunt private land, get a lease if you can, or buy land.

[G-Man]

I thought a traditional bow and a compound were both considered vertical bows? <`shruggs`>

Though they are bith vertical they are different, same as a long bow is different from a recurve, a wheeled compound, vs cam, each is a improvement over another technology.

PA for example has a muzzleloader season but it is flintlock only, no scopes allowed, I primitive season,is just that a primitive season.. we have an archery season that allows all forms of bow,except the redheaded step child the crossbow. Which is still a string pushing a arrow from a bent bow ...

I've said it before the only people that have a right to complain are the traditional recurve/long bow men. But they still continue to hunt with their implement of choice sise be side with the compound, yet compound hunters do not want to hunt side by side with a crossbow.. makes no sense. .... I even have a friend who hunts all of gun season with his bow because he likes it..

For those set against a crossbow , a question is have you ever shot one? And have you ever taken one in the woods in a hunting senairio? Have you heard the sound one makes when fired it's like a pop gun going off...never be able to get a second shot off in most circumstances. They arent the gun you believe them to be....

What's the old saying never judge someone till you walk a mile in their shoes....

[chas0218]

If I could afford to buy one this season I would use a xbow what is the point in owning a compound anymore no need to practice more than a couple times just cock and shoot.

 

To me it was more about the ability to be stealthy and out play the game.

[grampy]

If I could afford to buy one this season I would use a xbow what is the point in owning a compound anymore no need to practice more than a couple times just cock and shoot.

 

To me it was more about the ability to be stealthy and out play the game.

 

You still need to be "stealthy and out play the game" to get within 30 yards or so, to kill with a crossbow. 

[Al Bundy]

......"The old guy with the bum shoulder is kind of a horse ball reason for the xbow.  A guy who's shoulder is bad enough that he can't shoot a vertical bow, is really going to use the xbow?"

 

Never heard of the phrase "horse ball". Maybe I am not old enough. The answer to the above question is a REASOUNDING absof***inglutely.  I am a guy whos shoulder is bad and I have used and will continue to use my xbow until I can no longer walk, crawl, limp, stumble, stagger, be pushed pulled, carried, carted, dragged, etc to the woods.....

 

"Cocking a xbow with a bum shoulder ain't no fun, holding a xbow with a bum shoulder ain't no fun..."

 

      Cocking and holding an xbow with a bum shoulder is more do-able than holding a compound at full draw for a needed amount of time.  You also have TWO shoulders in case you were not aware.  One screwed up limits your compound use severely, not so much your XBOW use.

 

"climbing a tree with a bum shoulder ain't no fun..."

 

One does not need to climb a tree to shoot a deer . There is something called a ground-blind.  Pretty cool invention. You can also climb a ladder stand one armed. You can also sit in a chair, on an apple crate, etc etc etc. 

 

"gutting and dragging out a deer with a bum shoulder ain't no fun.  Face it, the xbow is for the healthy."

 

Gutting and dragging by yourself .."aint no fun" but is do-able.  Maybe there should be a provision that says "old injured bow hunters should be allowed to carry rifles during bow season."  Ill vote for it..

 

I guess injured bow hunters should be rounded up and shot in the pasture. Just make sure you use a cross bow.. its more humane method.

 

[NYBuckHunter27]

If I could afford to buy one this season I would use a xbow what is the point in owning a compound anymore no need to practice more than a couple times just cock and shoot.

 

To me it was more about the ability to be stealthy and out play the game.

 

And this is exactly why guys are against crossbows, look at this mentality. This is also why crossbows will be popular with many guys because they feel it is easier than a vertical bow. Less practice=more wounded deer......

[NYbuck50]

ill shoot my compound until i cant pull it back anymore. 

[G-Man]

And this is exactly why guys are against crossbows, look at this mentality. This is also why crossbows will be popular with many guys because they feel it is easier than a vertical bow. Less practice=more wounded deer......

I know you know hunters that pick up that compound and practice a week before the season ... same thing maybe worse. plus you practice all before season and when it starts how many take the time to keep practicing ? you may not release a arrow till almost mid nov , considering if they dont practice from start of season and many do not , 40 daysor more with no practice?? the pick it up and good to go is a poor argument in todays set up of pins,peeps, kisserbuttons, and mechanical releases....

[WNYBuckHunter]

If full inclusion happens, Ill finally buy one. I wont stop hunting with my compound though. I will use which ever one the situation calls for. Some of my stands would be no good for a crossbow.

[WNYBuckHunter]

And this is exactly why guys are against crossbows, look at this mentality. This is also why crossbows will be popular with many guys because they feel it is easier than a vertical bow. Less practice=more wounded deer......

 

Its easier to make a good shot with less practice, so in turn you have less deer wounded by guys that go out there regardless of not putting in the proper amount of practice.

[maytom]

Think I would stick with my compound bow. Just use to that way of shooting, hunting, etc. Although, maybe when I get older down the road, that might be a possibility?

[Al Bundy]

..."Think I would stick with my compound bow. Just use to that way of shooting, hunting, etc. Although, maybe when I get older down the road, that might be a possibility? "

 

Might be.. might not be... depends on if others get their way and tell you its not your choice to make. 

[Fredbear2]

I'll hunt with both ! Some stands would be better with crossbow than my Bow.