tughillmcd

Do You Support Crossbow Full Inclusion into the NY Archery Season?

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If it we're all the same (archery) the section on this site would.be titled archery hunting. Not "bow hunting" and "crossbow hunting"

With that said I admit I have seen bad hunters using crossbows and probably left a bad taste in my mouth about it. 

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Here is the problem with the fear it will lead to muzzelloader included in.. It will happen with out crossbow a lot faster than with..Dec want deer take..if.:-! Boy hunters up the take there is no reason for muzzleloader.. That is the truth of it..if not included you will see a special flintlock/ primitive season during archery

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I've hunted almost everyday of my life.. the rest have been wasted!

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29 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Yes it is. Its an arrow propelled by energy stored in the limbs, off of a string. It kills with a broadhead in the same manor as any other type of bow. The Ravin is actually slightly more similar to a vertical bow in that the arrow doesnt travel down any type of (whats referred to as) rail or "barrel". It sits on a rest just like a vertical bow. Just because they market it as "shooting rifle like groups" at 100 yards, doesnt mean you should be taking 100 yard shots through the woods with it.

Its also not legal to hunt with in NY due to it not being wide enough to meet the regs.

Ravin.JPG

xbow.JPG

one of the question asked if those limits should be removed. You know the definition of pornography right? "You can't describe it, but you know it when you see it". You can use all the terminology you like with me to explain how this is the same as a compound, but I know what archery is when I see it. Full rest, no draw, auto-cocking, scope, buttstock, pistol grip...not archery in my book.

Edited by Belo

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32 minutes ago, tughillmcd said:

Fasted compound is the PSE Full Throttle at 370 fps and the fastest crossbow is the Scorpyd at 450 fps.

How many people shoot the fastest compound? The average compound is  shooting around 325- 340 while the average crossbow is shooting around 350. 

Not that far off. If you want to compare speed as the litmus test, then compare your fastest compound to a longbow or recurve. Or better yet, compare the average traditional to the average compound. 

speed is not my issue and i don't think it's many others. It's that one of the most critical aspects of archery is knowing when to draw. Waiting so your movement doesn't spook the deer, not drawing too early so you can hold it and hold it steady enough for a clean release. Many archers also shoot standing. A crossbows movement is no different than gun hunting. Archers don't hunt because it's easy, they do it for the challenge. 

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30 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I didnt ask for fears.

I know. But isn't that what us gun owners use as the defense to not giving an inch with tighter gun control laws?

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20 minutes ago, Belo said:

one of the question asked if those limits should be removed. You know the definition of pornography right? "You can't describe it, but you know it when you see it". You can use all the terminology you like with me to explain how this is the same as a compound, but I know what archery is when I see it. Full rest, no draw, auto-cocking, scope, buttstock, pistol grip...not archery in my book.

Its not auto cocking, you still have to draw it manually.

 

BTW, you know YOUR version of archery, and thats it. Weve debated about the real definition of archery before, and yours is close, but it doesnt match.

 

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2 minutes ago, Belo said:

I know. But isn't that what us gun owners use as the defense to not giving an inch with tighter gun control laws?

Apples and oranges. Lets try to stay on subject.

Im still waiting to hear an answer to what I asked. Not holding my breath though.

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I honestly don't care either way, But I do like the split seasons.....I won't fight for or against full inclusion, just like it the way it is. I've used both, no comparison between the two when it comes down to the challenges involved.

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31 minutes ago, BigVal said:

If it we're all the same (archery) the section on this site would.be titled archery hunting. Not "bow hunting" and "crossbow hunting"

With that said I admit I have seen bad hunters using crossbows and probably left a bad taste in my mouth about it. 

When we created it, the only reason we separated them was to keep the infighting to a minimum. I originally wanted to leave the crossbow threads in the bow hunting section. The site owner and some of us moderators discussed what to do, and this is what we decided upon.

 

Its funny though, the anti-crossbow crowd just cant help themselves, and visit the crossbow forum constantly just to piss and moan.

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3 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Its not auto cocking, you still have to draw it manually.

 

i mean...

 

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4 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Apples and oranges. Lets try to stay on subject.

Im still waiting to hear an answer to what I asked. Not holding my breath though.

The DEC. They want deer dead. In their eyes there's nothing more efficient than the firearm. 

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1 minute ago, Belo said:

The DEC. They want deer dead. In their eyes there's nothing more efficient than the firearm. 

Still not an answer to what I asked, and its a huge leaping assumption to boot.

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3 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Still not an answer to what I asked, and its a huge leaping assumption to boot.

that was my answer. you just don't like it. anyhow, the fear of firearms is not my rallying cry against the crossbow in archery season. I have about 8 other reasons before i get to that one. And yes we're all just making the same points over and over again that we've made for 5+ years now :)

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I draw on just about every deer that comes through, it's good pratice . It's rare to get busted . All I know is every year more guys at work get their first bow and kill deer . 

Perhaps it's because we have lots of time off , and going to work is like a two month hunting camp in the Fall, so they learn a lot from others ?

But I would think and gun hunters especially shotgun hunters ( closer range ) know when to and not to move , it's not like that's exclusive to bow .

 

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2 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Just curious, can you explain what arguments supporting full inclusion would be able to be used to support adding guns to an archery season?

 

Well the most essential reason for full inclusion is: I want to hunt more season and earlier.

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3 minutes ago, Belo said:

that was my answer. you just don't like it. anyhow, the fear of firearms is not my rallying cry against the crossbow in archery season. I have about 8 other reasons before i get to that one. And yes we're all just making the same points over and over again that we've made for 5+ years now :)

I dont like it because it doesnt answer my question. Good lord, you get riled up into a tizzy over crossbows so badly that your reading comprehension just shuts off.

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2 hours ago, tughillmcd said:

Arguments like "it propels an arrow utilizing the energy from bent limbs and strings at similar velocities as vertical bows?

Yep, that sure sounds like a muzzleloader to me!

Nope, not arguments like that.

IMO a crossbow, in a practical sense, actually has more in common with a firearm than a vertical bow.

Have any of you ever seen a pre-teen girl pick up a compound bow and on her third ever shot get within an inch of bullzeye at 30 yards with over 100 FPE? Because I have with a crossbow.

I know y'all will get your way eventually. So this is just delaying the inevitable.

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1 hour ago, growalot said:

Core I am having a difficult time understanding your logic. Take no offense but Cross bows are in the best time of buck hunting...the last two weeks in bow and going into gun season...Now you may say who would use it in gun and that makes no difference. Though it does because at the first signs of gun pressure those buck follow doe to safer zones. Gun hunters,including some bow are thinking aahh gun more reach better odds... Though now with having the lower safety zones for archery, it could actually  give them better opportunities with 150' for compound and only 250' for cross bow. There are some nice buck taken early season but mainly doe and notice on the forum...Guys are not burning vacation and family time during early season bow...Why would gun hunters be angry?...They could  pick up a cross bow early season with no problems. If anything in early bow not prime time is what they should want and have now. I have to say depending on what happens during bow season...I will be sitting in a stand dressed in orange down in the swamp with my cross bow opening day of gun...it's the legal weapon I can use down there. Also less chance of running off the property due to blood loss not shock. If it is public land pressure...I'm pretty sure guys won't be burning time much more in early season bow with a cross bow than now. Maybe the first couple of years until they realize they aren't seeing all the buck they thought were running past archers before they could be out there. Rarely does ones imagination match reality.

Well take public land for example, that I've hunted. Bow season I never see anybody. The deer are pretty chill. By the time gun season is over the deer are few in far between because all the people going through the woods have had these deer hissing and blowing for weeks. It's less, i think, about the sound of the guns and more about the people. Xbows are infinitely easier to use than vertical bows. They take virtually no practice and effective range is significantly more than bow. And they keep charging up in tech (now well over 400 FPS, with kinetic energy 2-3X that of a vertical bow, with better accuracy, too). Open it up to Oct 1 now instead of a casual month of few hunters (most can't be bothered to get proficient with a bow, and some can't due to injury) and you'll see ever increasing numbers of xbow hunters, so by the time Mid-November comes around those people who refuse for whatever reason to shoot arrows will be getting only the stupidest or least lucky deer.

I don't care if xbow is extended a bit so that anybody, even those who are injured (shoulders, etc.) can hunt with an effective implement at peak rut. Have xbow start at nov1. I just like to have a few weeks of vertical only.

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If it is public land pressure...I'm pretty sure guys won't be burning time much more in early season bow with a cross bow than now. Maybe the first couple of years until they realize they aren't seeing all the buck they thought were running past archers before they could be out there. Rarely does ones imagination match reality.

I stand by that...If it is due to amount of ease that bothers a person ..Well then put them in 2 weeks first of Oct., when mostly doe are taken anyhow...Then leave vertical only for the prime last weeks during prime time...Also one could say hey by inclusion your helping out on public land...some of those gun toting small game hunters just may take up deer with cross bow...eliminating all that moving around they tend to do AND eliminating all that gun noise you dislike ...The point is anyone can find the good and bad in any change...putting in some real compromise while changing is better than fighting and being annoyed amongst our selves. When compound were brought in there were limitations put on them...no lighted sights,lasers are the 2 I recall...there should be no difference in the cross bow leave the limitations the have now...


The Kindle just doesn't work right and   I have decided not to feed the bullies and distracters...it's call the ignore feature. They only have power when fed.

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25 minutes ago, Core said:

Well the most essential reason for full inclusion is: I want to hunt more season and earlier.

Nope, you said that "most arguments" for full crossbow inclusion can be applied to putting guns in an archery season. I asked what arguments can transfer.

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32 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Different bow. We were talking about the Ravin.

we're talking about all crossbows. if you can pull it back with any kind of mechanical assistance than it's just not the same.

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26 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I dont like it because it doesnt answer my question. Good lord, you get riled up into a tizzy over crossbows so badly that your reading comprehension just shuts off.

i'm really not riled up at all. i'm just not motivated to do work today. i think it's a good discussion.

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1 minute ago, Belo said:

we're talking about all crossbows. if you can pull it back with any kind of mechanical assistance than it's just not the same.

You mean like a release and cams with a let off?

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