Carrying Crossbow/compound bow simultaneously

[chrisw]

Just thought I'd give another update on the matter of carrying a crossbow while deer hunting before the 2 week season. I went online and asked the DEC central dispatch this very question. "Is it legal to possess a crossbow afield while deer hunting before the 2 week crossbow deer season for the use of turkey hunting.?"

 

I just got off of the phone with a Sargeant at the DEC Central dispatch, he called me regarding the email. He then described the very same reason the other DEC officer I talked to.

"You are actively pursuing a deer while in possession of an implement with which is illegal to take deer during the current season." He told me that the full gamut of rules has not been detailed in the hunting regulations guide for crossbow use but this is no different than carrying a firearm while bowhunting. He reiterated that the way the seasons are currently laid out this is ILLEGAL.

If anyone would care to ask the same question or any other questions I'll gladly give the phone number to the DEC central Dispatch and you can hash out your disagreements with them, after all they are the very people you'll be talking to if you get caught... I was and am not pointing fingers at anyone but simply clearing up shady areas in law that none of us were too clear on.

 

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, chrisw said:

 

Just thought I'd give another update on the matter of carrying a crossbow while deer hunting before the 2 week season. I went online and asked the DEC central dispatch this very question. "Is it legal to possess a crossbow afield while deer hunting before the 2 week crossbow deer season for the use of turkey hunting.?"

 

I just got off of the phone with a Sargeant at the DEC Central dispatch, he called me regarding the email. He then described the very same reason the other DEC officer I talked to.

"You are actively pursuing a deer while in possession of an implement with which is illegal to take deer during the current season." He told me that the full gamut of rules has not been detailed in the hunting regulations guide for crossbow use but this is no different than carrying a firearm while bowhunting. He reiterated that the way the seasons are currently laid out this is ILLEGAL.

If anyone would care to ask the same question or any other questions I'll gladly give the phone number to the DEC central Dispatch and you can hash out your disagreements with them, after all they are the very people you'll be talking to if you get caught... I was and am not pointing fingers at anyone but simply clearing up shady areas in law that none of us were too clear on.

 

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I could see that they could ticket you once you did "actively pursue a deer. ie shot at one or actually took one. Since both the bow and crossbow are legal implements for taking turkey it would seem you could walk into the woods with a bow, crossbow and a shotgun loaded with shot and crawl into a blind to call turkey if you wanted. 

 

[growalot]

Quote

I just wanted to let you know that is going to take a little more time to get answers to you about carrying more than one weapon while hunting. As I said on the phone, it is not a simply question and it involves looking a number of different laws and regulations. One person who I need to talk to is out of the office for a few days, so I will get an answer to you as soon as I can.

Lets update shall we? I put a call into Albany this a.m. I told them exactly what was needed...to talk to a person well versed in the laws...then explained the situation and let them know I needed a written law emailed to me that specifically states the legalities of the cross bow issue and carrying both weapons ... the above was their first response several hours after trying to find something...so there is the update.

Edited October 23, 2017 by growalot

[chrisw]

I could see that they could ticket you once you did "actively pursue a deer. ie shot at one or actually took one. Since both the bow and crossbow are legal implements for taking turkey it would seem you could walk into the woods with a bow, crossbow and a shotgun loaded with shot and crawl into a blind to call turkey if you wanted. 
 

If you are actively pursuing turkeys then you probably could get away with that... "Actively pursuing" is not when you take a shot or kill one... Actively pursuing means hunting, we all know that, let's not twist the words to mean what we want to hear. Let's not pretend these officers are idiots either, most are hunters and fisherman just like us.

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[OtiscoPaul]

3 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I could see that they could ticket you once you did "actively pursue a deer. ie shot at one or actually took one. Since both the bow and crossbow are legal implements for taking turkey it would seem you could walk into the woods with a bow, crossbow and a shotgun loaded with shot and crawl into a blind to call turkey if you wanted. 

 

This is the point...there are countless scenarios to debate that's why once a law is written and interpreted by courts and law enforcement the honus is on us to understand it and if we don't and get busted a plea of ignorance will not be accepted.

2 minutes ago, growalot said:

Lets update shall we? I put a call into Albany this a.m. I told them exactly what was needed...to talk to a person well versed in the laws...then explained the situation and let them know I needed a written law emailed to me that specifically states the legalities of the cross bow issue and carrying both weapons ... the above was their first response several hours after trying to find something...so there is the update.

This attitude is exactly what's wrong with America today...no amount of information is good enough once you've made up your mind...continue to stand your ground in the face of facts.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 minute ago, chrisw said:

If you are actively pursuing turkeys then you probably could get away with that... "Actively pursuing" is not when you take a shot or kill one... Actively pursuing means hunting, we all know that, let's not twist the words to mean what we want to hear. Let's not pretend these officers are idiots either, most are hunters and fisherman just like us.

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They aren't idiots, they also don't have ESP. I know guys that hunt with a bow and a shotgun for turkeys in the spring. carry both to a blind. so what magical action of having any of the three listed would make you a deer hunter vs a turkey hunter?

[chrisw]

They aren't idiots, they also don't have ESP. I know guys that hunt with a bow and a shotgun for turkeys in the spring. carry both to a blind. so what magical action of having any of the three listed would make you a deer hunter vs a turkey hunter?

Because you can't hunt deer in the spring would be my first guess...???

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, OtiscoPaul said:

This is the point...there are countless scenarios to debate that's why once a law is written and interpreted by courts and law enforcement the honus is on us to understand it and if we don't and get busted a plea of ignorance will not be accepted.

This attitude is exactly what's wrong with America today...no amount of information is good enough once you've made up your mind...continue to stand your ground in the face of facts.

what is the action that makes us a deer hunter vs a turkey hunter? If you aren't in possession of a deer carcass tag would that suffice?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, chrisw said:

Because you can't hunt deer in the spring would be my first guess...???

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so if you don't have a deer tag but do have a turkey tag and are out with a bow during turkey, you must be a poacher trying to take deer?

[chrisw]

what is the action that makes us a deer hunter vs a turkey hunter? If you aren't in possession of a deer carcass tag would that suffice?

That's something you'd have to hash out with the officer obviously. If you can prove to him you were only turkey hunting and he believes you then you'd be all set probably...

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[OtiscoPaul]

21 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

what is the action that makes us a deer hunter vs a turkey hunter? If you aren't in possession of a deer carcass tag would that suffice?

In this case the fact she is carrying both afield indicates she is actively pursuing both...as the code is currently understood you may not pursue whitetails while in possession of an xbow until that season begins.

My interpretation may be flawed again this is why it's already been decided by law enforcement.

Edited October 23, 2017 by OtiscoPaul

[growalot]

hahaha

[chrisw]

so if you don't have a deer tag but do have a turkey tag and are out with a bow during turkey, you must be a poacher trying to take deer?

Who accused anyone of being a poacher? I'm telling you what 2 officers now have told me. I never said you were a poacher if you do have both with you, I said both officers I've talked to have said it's not legal. Stop trying to kill the messenger.

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

9 minutes ago, chrisw said:

Who accused anyone of being a poacher? I'm telling you what 2 officers now have told me. I never said you were a poacher if you do have both with you, I said both officers I've talked to have said it's not legal. Stop trying to kill the messenger.

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Don't get riled. I am having a conversation. I have run across more than one officer that didn't know their ass from their elbow. I got in an argument with one two years ago up north that was giving me crap for no back tag and he wan't buying that it wasn't required in the NZ.  It wasn't until we drove down the road further to get service on my phone that I proved it to him and he didn't even apologize for his attitude. 

They are BOTH legal implements in the woods for turkey and there is NO WAY they could get a conviction for you having both. it isn't like having a shotgun loaded with slugs that has no other purpose than deer and there are specific regulation banning them. . I wouldn't carry both anyway but would love to see that fight. NOWHERE in the NYS Environment law  list carrying these would be presumptive evidence that you are deer hunting so I don't get where they are pulling this out of. 

 

Oh, And if DEC is ticketing anyone for this they are accusing the person of being a poacher. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[growalot]

Culver...not just turkey, all small game ,turkey and coyote can be killed during bow season with a cross bow.

[chrisw]

They aren't idiots, they also don't have ESP. I know guys that hunt with a bow and a shotgun for turkeys in the spring. carry both to a blind. so what magical action of having any of the three listed would make you a deer hunter vs a turkey hunter?

If you really wanted to follow this twisted road of logic, can I walk around the woods all fall in camo with a bow or rifle in my hand without a hunting license? Do you think you could convince the officer that you aren't "actively pursuing" anything? I doubt it. Again, there is officer discretion here and whether he buys your story is up to him or her. I'm not disagreeing with you that the law should be better stated and visible, I'm only telling you you're chances of getting pinched for this, law or not, are extremely high.

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[OtiscoPaul]

35 minutes ago, chrisw said:

If anyone would care to ask the same question or any other questions I'll gladly give the phone number to the DEC central Dispatch and you can hash out your disagreements with them, after all they are the very people you'll be talking to if you get caught... I was and am not pointing fingers at anyone but simply clearing up shady areas in law that none of us were too clear on.

 

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Thanks again Chris I appreciate being informed and if I have any further questions I'll debate them with the authorities rather than members on a hunting website who are not incharge of enforcement (or their own emotions fur that matter).

[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, OtiscoPaul said:

Thanks again Chris I appreciate being informed and if I have any further questions I'll debate them with the authorities rather than members on a hunting website who are not incharge of enforcement (or their own emotions fur that matter).

Must be part of the snowflake crowd that can't bare to have a challenging conversation? I'll be sure to copy you in when we discuss unicorns and rainbows. 

[turkeyfeathers]

And I can carry a shotgun loaded with slugs in the morning to shoot coyotes    Heck I can even do it tonight right?   And during shotgun deer season

Pretty sure nowhere is written I can't carry 2 muzzleloaders during ML season either.

Edited October 23, 2017 by turkeyfeathers

[chrisw]

Thanks again Chris I appreciate being informed and if I have any further questions I'll debate them with the authorities rather than members on a hunting website who are not incharge of enforcement (or their own emotions fur that matter).

No problem, the whole idea here was to learn something or look further into a question. Not debate on why I should be able to keep doing what I've been doing. Law enforcement officers are people too, they aren't always correct, but I'd be willing to bet on average they know more 90% of the time than anyone on this site about wildlife laws and regulations. That's their job.

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 minute ago, turkeyfeathers said:

Pretty sure nowhere is written I can't carry 2 muzzleloaders during ML season either.

That is another discussion I got into with an ill informed Encon office. 

[growalot]

Thanks for quoting that Culver ...I put him on block after he told me I need to thank ChrisW...lol

[OtiscoPaul]

3 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Must be part of the snowflake crowd that can't bare to have a challenging conversation? I'll be sure to copy you in when we discuss unicorns and rainbows. 

If snowflake means openminded and prefers facts to emotional anecdotes then I guess so.

[chrisw]

And I can carry a shotgun loaded with slugs in the morning to shoot coyotes    Heck I can even do it tonight right?   
Pretty sure nowhere is written I can't carry 2 muzzleloaders during ML season either.

Yes you can, as far as I know, try it while also carrying a bow though and convince the officer you weren't also deer hunting. I have no idea on the 2 muzzleloader topic, you can call and ask if you are interested...

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

I'm all about following the laws and I know that most the Encon are good folks that try. But they are not infallible.