What's the difference? Baiting vs. Attracting

[Zem18]

Just a thought I had while reading the Dutchess county poaching thread so decided to start a discussion here. ( Sorry for long post) and didn't mean to hijack the other thread.

 

I have a tree stand that is under 25 yards from 2 apple trees. My FIL planted several varieties of apple trees several years ago that are low fenced in

,about another 30 yards past that.

This coming year we plan to put in a few 80 to 100 foot strips of some sort of food plot to keep deer coming to the area near the small orchard in the field. Many of the shows on TV call it " farming for wildlife". Couldn't this be considered baiting or is it termed " attracting" and what is the difference.

 

I'm not planting food plots to eat from, I want to attract deer. Wouldn't this be a form of baiting? And it doesn't matter if you are in a tree stand or on the ground in a pop up blind or natural blind or even just standing behind a tree trying not to be seen, you are still there to try and attract and kill wildlife. You stack the odds in your favor to get sightings in. So pouring out some corn or apples by your stand is wrong, but hunting over a "kill food plot" is totally acceptable or near apple trees or an orchard. Or the stand on the edge of the corn field that the deer hit every evening.

 

Some people jumped all over the guy who put liquid attractant on a stump all summer and then hunted over it. It's not much different than planting a food plot, except for being quicker and both are geared at attracting wildlife in order to kill them.

 

I know right from wrong and am familiar with the laws but this whole " baiting" debate seems to always be a gray area and causes some dissention among the ranks. Just curious to hear others opinions on food plots, hunting by corn fields, or an orchard, and why those aren't considered baiting as well.

 

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[nyantler]

The only difference is the Law and what ever side of the argument a hunter is on. 

[Zem18]

The only difference is the Law and what ever side of the argument a hunter is on. 

Well said.

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[fasteddie]

Let's say you plant a half acre food plot . The deer could come in to feed anywhere and not always the same place . Most food plots are even bigger in size . You have to guess where to put your stand or blind .

Now instead of a food plot you put out a corn pile or a pile of apples . The deer will come to the pile and there is no guessing as to where to have a stand or blind . They will come to a specific spot . 

If you shoot a deer in an apple orchard , no problem . If you take a pile of apples and place them in the woods , it's baiting . Hunting near an oak tree is okay but don't go out and pick up a bunch of acorns and place them by your stand . 

I don't have a food plot and I don't bait and I think anyone who says they are the same is full of crap ! 

[Robhuntandfish]

isnt one of the reasons listed by DEC to stop the spread of diseases?  That deer eating from exact same spot isnt the same as when they browse naturally?  dont know if I agree with that but think they have said that is one other reason for the no baiting law

[Four Season Whitetail's]

12 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

isnt one of the reasons listed by DEC to stop the spread of diseases?  That deer eating from exact same spot isnt the same as when they browse naturally?  dont know if I agree with that but think they have said that is one other reason for the no baiting law

Bull Crap!  That is just another DEC reach to stop something...Just like Urine ban.  We all know deer do not like to be alone for the most part. Bigger Bucks the exception. Deer eat everywhere side by side, Deer love licking on each other.  Only in the big woods or in middle of winter will you see deer grouped up and staying at a food pile. 

[ncountry]

Not much ... I'm normally  not a food plotter or baiter.lol..a few times a season I do hunt my Apple orchard that is loaded with apples.. I have walked through the orchard to my back stand and picked up 1/2 dozen apples to mostly eat and the rest I would throw under the single apple tree I'm watching over..ussually there are other apples already on the ground but there have been off years where the was a poor apple crop and there weren't. ; ) Shoot me.

Food plots typically will have a better benefit for the deer. More food..

I dont see a big advantage to hunting over bait vs food plot. If your hunting with a firearm who cares if they come out exactly where you want or 100yds on the other side of the foodplot.

 

[BizCT]

The only difference is the Law and what ever side of the argument a hunter is on. 

100% agree. A handful of throw and grow by me brings the best bucks in front of a camera. Same as illegal bait would.

I would actually prefer it if NY allowed baiting so that everyone would be on an even playing field. Like parts of CT, NJ, etc. I would never illegally bait but people definitely do around here and it works because there isn’t much other food sources besides acorns.


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[steve863]

My opinion has always been that food plots are baiting.  Now, I have absolutely nothing against food plots, but lets call it what it really is.  I know people who plant food plots will argue that it's not baiting and give me the story that they do it to help the deer, but how many would plant food for the deer if they didn't hunt?  The answer is few to none.

 

 

[ncountry]

I would think that there would be a lot more personal satisfaction in killing a deer over a food plot vs bait. Similar to the actual hunt a lot of time and effort went into the plot.. I have a friend that shoots a nice buck every year in his plots. Simple easy,no brainer hunts.. in order for this to work. He put a lot of time and effort into the plots, hinge cutting , brush rows,etc.... I am sure more time ,effort and thought than went into some of his big woods bucks..

Edited December 5, 2017 by ncountry
Sp

[WNYBuckHunter]

Growing food plots, hinge cutting, leaving tree trimmings, planting soft and hard mast trees, etc is legal. Pouring food from a bag, placing mineral blocks, piling up food, etc is not. Thats the difference.

The way I see it, its all just hunting a food source, pretty much the same as hunting a crop field, abandoned orchard or even a natural oak flat or stand of beech trees. I would rather not spend money on bags of corn, deer feed, etc even if it was legal. Most likely all I would use would be mineral supplements if I could.

[erussell]

Its a moot point to argue about it. Not ever going to be legal in NY. And from what ive read they are looking for ways to crack down even more on it. It wouldnt suprise me  if you saw stiffer penalties in the future. Which i dont think will stop it law breakers are law breakers.

[Hunter007]

I think it involves  a stand or a blind in front of a big pile of something that drives the deer crazy to get at it .  That natraully you would not find in the deers  environment. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Storm914

[chas0218]

1 hour ago, nyantler said:

The only difference is the Law and what ever side of the argument a hunter is on. 

Yup, no difference in my mind and could careless which people prefer to do legal or not. Either way you are using some sort of non-natural substance/something that is not normally in that area to draw in deer. Either way you're bringing deer in with something they don't usually have in that area. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by chas0218

[chas0218]

51 minutes ago, ncountry said:

Not much ... I'm normally  not a food plotter or baiter.lol..a few times a season I do hunt my Apple orchard that is loaded with apples.. I have walked through the orchard to my back stand and picked up 1/2 dozen apples to mostly eat and the rest I would throw under the single apple tree I'm watching over..ussually there are other apples already on the ground but there have been off years where the was a poor apple crop and there weren't. ; ) Shoot me.

Food plots typically will have a better benefit for the deer. More food..

I dont see a big advantage to hunting over bait vs food plot. If your hunting with a firearm who cares if they come out exactly where you want or 100yds on the other side of the foodplot.

 

No different than bringing a couple apples with you and eating them and throwing the leftovers onto the ground. If that's the case I bait them next to the highway too when I chuck my apple cores out my window. Like I said I really could careless how people want to hunt legal or not. The CWD argument is bull crap.

[moog5050]

Food plots, like crops are available 24/7 and thus, even if being used, are not necessarily a draw whereby you can pattern deer.  A feeder, on the other had, as used where legal is typically on a timer and like pavlovs dogs, out come the deer to hit the bait before its all gone at the same time each day.  I thinks its the specific timing/pattern and small location that makes baiting so effective  where legal.  Drop a big bag of corn and jump in a tree on day one, probably not so effective since the deer are not conditioned.  Do it every day for a month at the same time and things change.  Having hunted parcels with plots and without, I have not seen a huge difference.  In fact, I can only think of one deer that I killed in a food plot and that was an early season doe.  Maybe it makes a bigger difference in areas with less browse and ag.  Maybe I just stink at hunting around food plots.

[fasteddie]

58 minutes ago, ncountry said:

I dont see a big advantage to hunting over bait vs food plot. If your hunting with a firearm who cares if they come out exactly where you want or 100yds on the other side of the foodplot.

 

Try that while hunting with a bow during archery season .You set up in the food plot and I will setup at the bait pile and tell me they are equal or that there is no advantage . 

[growalot]

58 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

100% agree. A handful of throw and grow by me brings the best bucks in front of a camera. Same as illegal bait would.

I would actually prefer it if NY allowed baiting so that everyone would be on an even playing field. Like parts of CT, NJ, etc. I would never illegally bait but people definitely do around here and it works because there isn’t much other food sources besides acorns.


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Only quoted you because it was shortest post with what will be my point...

You have those buck on cam...I have 14 different plots...Apple's, chestnuts, 200 oak, ect...ect.. hundreds of. Cam pics...THAT SAID Biz...how many deer do we have in our freezers?....hhhhmmmm. Plots are no more a guarantee then an ag field..in fact they may hurt...getting them in a night time feeding patterns ...

[growalot]

5 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

Try that while hunting with a bow during archery season .You set up in the food plot and I will setup at the bait pile and tell me they are equal or that there is no advantage . 

Better yet a timed feeder...telling them exactly what time to show up with the sound of feed dispersing...

[ncountry]

6 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

Try that while hunting with a bow during archery season .You set up in the food plot and I will setup at the bait pile and tell me they are equal or that there is no advantage . 

Lol.. No doubt.. I have hunted enough field edges to know.they never come out where you want them too. Often, after a little time you can pattern them to specific trails.. but I have noticed the nicer bucks never seem to use the same ones.. I don't know this..  I have a feeling one is more likely to see a mature buck in a plot than at a corn pile?

[fasteddie]

12 minutes ago, growalot said:

Better yet a timed feeder...telling them exactly what time to show up with the sound of feed dispersing...

I remember taking the kids to Lolli Pop farm . You put money in a feed dispenser , turn the crank and the goats would all head toward toward  the noise .They were conditioned to the sound and knew there would be feed there . I would imagine it would be quite similar with a feed dispenser for deer or other wildlife . 

[chas0218]

22 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Food plots, like crops are available 24/7 and thus, even if being used, are not necessarily a draw whereby you can pattern deer.  A feeder, on the other had, as used where legal is typically on a timer and like pavlovs dogs, out come the deer to hit the bait before its all gone at the same time each day.  I thinks its the specific timing/pattern and small location that makes baiting so effective  where legal.  Drop a big bag of corn and jump in a tree on day one, probably not so effective since the deer are not conditioned.  Do it every day for a month at the same time and things change.  Having hunted parcels with plots and without, I have not seen a huge difference.  In fact, I can only think of one deer that I killed in a food plot and that was an early season doe.  Maybe it makes a bigger difference in areas with less browse and ag.  Maybe I just stink at hunting around food plots.

No doubt, hunting from a bait pile doesn't seem like it would be much different than a small corn plot. Where I hunt in the southern tier browse is limited and have seen food plots bring deer to property where browse is lacking. On my parents property in 8F with close to 70 acres in ag fields food plots have very little draw.

[Doewhacker]

There are a lot of factors on why a plot or bait would or wouldn't work but I agree the end goal is the same, to feed and keep deer in an area.

We'll see what a plot does in my area next year when I give it a shot.

[BizCT]

47 minutes ago, growalot said:

Only quoted you because it was shortest post with what will be my point...

You have those buck on cam...I have 14 different plots...Apple's, chestnuts, 200 oak, ect...ect.. hundreds of. Cam pics...THAT SAID Biz...how many deer do we have in our freezers?....hhhhmmmm. Plots are no more a guarantee then an ag field..in fact they may hurt...getting them in a night time feeding patterns ...

My 50 foot "plots" were eaten and all gone before 10/1. Next year, I will adjust accordingly somehow.

[BigVal]

I usually just buy a truck load of c'mere deer and put it by my stand. It brings some deer in.