.22 LR

[YFKI1983]

I have a Marlin 60c .22LR

 

Can I shoot .22 short from it? It says .22Long only but I don't really understand why if the bullet is the same diameter. I would assume that my only issue would be whether or not the semi auto would be able to cycle out the short round.

 

If anyone has any clarity on this, let me know. Thanks.

 

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[GreeneHunter]

I believe the short round does not have enough kick to eject itself and place the next round in the chamber ? But what the hell do I know !

[YFKI1983]

I believe the short round does not have enough kick to eject itself and place the next round in the chamber ? But what the hell do I know !

So theoretically I can shoot them but it would just turn my semi auto into a single shot.

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[Steve D]

8 minutes ago, YFKI1983 said:

Can I shoot .22 short from it? It says .22Long only but I don't really understand why

You can shoot shorts but will have to manually eject after each shot. The shorts do not generate enough pressure to work the action and eject the shell.

[philoshop]

The shorts certainly won't cycle the action, and they'll probably be wildly inaccurate because of the space between the bullet and the rifling. If one of the bullets in the .22 shorts is seated poorly you might also end up with a bullet stuck in your barrel. Pay attention to the target area to be sure all rounds actually leave the barrel.

[YFKI1983]

The shorts certainly won't cycle the action, and they'll probably be wildly inaccurate because of the space between the bullet and the rifling. If one of the bullets in the .22 shorts is seated poorly you might also end up with a bullet stuck in your barrel. Pay attention to the target area to be sure all rounds actually leave the barrel.

The bullet is not the same diameter?

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

20 minutes ago, philoshop said:

The shorts certainly won't cycle the action, and they'll probably be wildly inaccurate because of the space between the bullet and the rifling. If one of the bullets in the .22 shorts is seated poorly you might also end up with a bullet stuck in your barrel. Pay attention to the target area to be sure all rounds actually leave the barrel.

There were lots of rifles that were classified for 22 short, 22 Long and 22 LR. I have a savage single shot that lists all 3. I have never seen a 22 long but have shot shorts and Long Rifles out of it and it shoots fine.  I believe there was also a 22 extra long. 

[Steve D]

24 minutes ago, YFKI1983 said:

The bullet is not the same diameter?

Both bullets are the same diameter 0.21" The shorts have a shorter casing and a shorter bullet.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

11 minutes ago, Steve D said:

Both bullets are the same diameter 0.21" The shorts have a shorter casing and a shorter bullet.

They aren't .223?

 

[Steve D]

          The "official" Measurements

             .223" - .22 Short, Long, Long Rifle

• .224" - .22 WMR, .222 Remington, .223 Remington, .22-250 Varminter, .223 WSSM

My verniers  are not the best. They read the .22 long rifle and .22 short as 0.21-.022.

 Also measures my .223 hornady v-max at 0.21 but then again I am not measuring the base that is in the shell

[airedale]

4 hours ago, YFKI1983 said:

Can I shoot .22 short from it? It says .22Long only but I don't really understand why if the bullet is the same diameter. I would assume that my only issue would be whether or not the semi auto would be able to cycle out the short round.

Yes you can fire a 22 short out of your rifle, the bullet diameters on LRs, Longs and Shorts are the same .223. It is not recommended out of your rifle for several reasons. As has already been mentioned a short will not operate the action so they will have to be fed and ejected manually. Accuracy will be not as good as LRs because the rifling twist is suited to the 40 gr LR bullets usually a 1 in 16, shorts on the other hand will be more accurate in dedicated firearms chambered specifically for the short (Somewhere around 1 in 20) where it will not have to make a jump to engage the rifling and the rifling twist will be slower providing better accuracy. Also there will be smudging and residue in the LR chamber just ahead of the short's case mouth from powder burning so it is always advised to give your rifle a good cleaning after firing a bunch of shorts as the LR rounds might be sticking on that residue upon chambering. It has also been said firing shorts in excessive numbers can actually put a burn ring in the LR chamber. Personally I think it would have to be a huge number fired before that would happen. 

I do a lot of 22 rimfire shooting and as far as I am concerned the 22 short is pretty much obsolete, it's ballistics are duplicated in a good selection of LR loadings so a lot of the stuff listed above is avoided. So bottom line for me unless I had a rifle or handgun actually chambered in 22 Short I would pass on even messing around with them.

A side note the Remington 552 is the one Auto loader that comes to mind that has been engineered to fire all three type of 22s and is pretty reliable.

Edited December 8, 2017 by airedale

[philoshop]

I don't want to be argumentative here, but I've seen a number of guns labelled LR only with bullets from 'shorts' lodged in the barrel.  It depends on the particular gun and the characteristics of it's chamber, leade, and forcing cone. If it says ".22 LR Only"  there's probably a reason for it.

[Steve D]

4 hours ago, philoshop said:

don't want to be argumentative here, but I've seen a number of guns labelled LR only with bullets from 'shorts' lodged in the barrel.

You could be right...I have never seen it so can't say. When I have shot shorts from a long rifle I made sure the barrel was clean since the .22 caliber will foul up the barrel faster than anything. Had to clean it often when I shot the cb. 22's. Very dirty caliber. If you have a scope on you can actually watch the cb .22 go down range.

[YFKI1983]

Only reason I want to shoot the shorts is because they are much quieter than than longs. Not sure there is any other benefit

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[Steve D]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 8:56 PM, YFKI1983 said:

Only reason I want to shoot the shorts is because they are much quieter than than longs

You can also use cb .22 long rifle if you can find them and they are very quiet  but you will still have to eject them manually. They are also slow but will do the job at short distances.

 

[YFKI1983]

You can also use cb .22 long rifle if you can find them and they are very quiet  but you will still have to eject them manually. They are also slow but will do the job at short distances.
 

Fast enough to hit a squirrel? I'll be embarrassed if they duck my shot

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[Steve D]

5 minutes ago, YFKI1983 said:

Fast enough to hit a squirrel? I'll be embarrassed if they duck my shot

 They will kill a squirrel but you won't be able to shoot over 50 yds. and I would highly recommend a four power scope. You can actually see the bullet go looking through a scope and it is easier to sight in. I never shot them with open sights so not sure how accurate they would be.

[DirtTime]

I read this a couple days ago, I have been a little reluctant to post. I called S&M to ask if shooting a .22 short from my M&P would work. I was advised not to use the shorts as they do not seat right in the chamber because of the shorter brass on the .22 short vs the .22LR.

People who are far more knowledgeable then I have posted, but, I would not try it.

Shotguns have barrels made to accept shells from 2-3/4 through 3-1/2 in mag shells. Rifles don't work in the same same way.

Just my thoughts, with any rifle, use the ammo fitting the rifle for max performance and not have breech issues. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by ....rob

[mowin]

I've got a old Winchester ( can't remember the model without digging it out from the back of the safe) tube fed that is a LR ONLY.  I've shot hundreds if not thousands of rounds of shorts, and longs through that rifle when I was a kid.  Dad taught me to shoot with that rifle.  Thing is so wore out won't cycle a LR round, lol. Wouldn't sell it for a million bucks. Every so often I dig it out and can still see dad's smile as he taught me to safely handle a gun, and learn how to shoot.  Thinking I need to honor dad this week by getting that old Winchester out and firing a few rounds.  

[wildcat junkie]

11 hours ago, ....rob said:

I read this a couple days ago, I have been a little reluctant to post. I called S&M to ask if shooting a .22 short from my M&P would work. I was advised not to use the shorts as they do not seat right in the chamber because of the shorter brass on the .22 short vs the .22LR.

People who are far more knowledgeable then I have posted, but, I would not try it.

Shotguns have barrels made to accept shells from 2-3/4 through 3-1/2 in mag shells. Rifles don't work in the same same way.

Just my thoughts, with any rifle, use the ammo fitting the rifle for max performance and not have breech issues. 

Rimmed cartridges headspace on the rim, not the case mouth. Only rimless straight wall case headspace on the case mouth.

Rimless semi-auto pistol cartridges are an example.

As pointed out earlier, in a semi-auto 22lr action, the blow back might not be sufficient with 22rf short cartridges to cycle the action.. With bolts/levers, etc, the danger lies in erosion of the chamber ahead of the mouth of the case of the 22rf short cartridges being repeatedly fired in a 22lr chamber over a long period of time. This will cause 22lr cases to hang up when fired in a chamber thus eroded.

[wildcat junkie]

10 hours ago, mowin said:

 

 

10 hours ago, mowin said:

I've got a old Winchester ( can't remember the model without digging it out from the back of the safe) tube fed that is a LR ONLY.  I've shot hundreds if not thousands of rounds of shorts, and longs through that rifle when I was a kid.  Dad taught me to shoot with that rifle.  Thing is so wore out won't cycle a LR round, lol. Wouldn't sell it for a million bucks. Every so often I dig it out and can still see dad's smile as he taught me to safely handle a gun, and learn how to shoot.  Thinking I need to honor dad this week by getting that old Winchester out and firing a few rounds.  

See text highlighted in red below.

5 minutes ago, wildcat junkie said:

Rimmed cartridges headspace on the rim, not the case mouth. Only rimless straight wall case headspace on the case mouth.

Rimless semi-auto pistol cartridges are an example.

As pointed out earlier, in a semi-auto 22lr action, the blow back might not be sufficient with 22rf short cartridges to cycle the action.. With bolts/levers, etc, the danger lies in erosion of the chamber ahead of the mouth of the case of the 22rf short cartridges being repeatedly fired in a 22lr chamber over a long period of time. This will cause 22lr cases to hang up when fired in a chamber thus eroded.

 

[wildcat junkie]

On 12/8/2017 at 12:58 PM, philoshop said:

The shorts certainly won't cycle the action, and they'll probably be wildly inaccurate because of the space between the bullet and the rifling. If one of the bullets in the .22 shorts is seated poorly you might also end up with a bullet stuck in your barrel. 

 

On 12/8/2017 at 1:11 PM, YFKI1983 said:

The bullet is not the same diameter?

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On 12/8/2017 at 1:34 PM, Steve D said:

Both bullets are the same diameter 0.21" The shorts have a shorter casing and a shorter bullet.

There will be a long "jump" before the bullet engages the rifling. This is not desirable in any chamber as it tends to strip the driving surface of the bullet resulting in poor engagement with the rifling.

Edited December 11, 2017 by wildcat junkie

[mowin]

6 hours ago, wildcat junkie said:

 

See text highlighted in red below.

 

Never had one hang up, get caught, fail to exit the barrel.  

IMO, go ahead and shoot shorts in a LR only.  Not going to hurt a thing.  

[wildcat junkie]

6 hours ago, mowin said:

Never had one hang up, get caught, fail to exit the barrel.  

IMO, go ahead and shoot shorts in a LR only.  Not going to hurt a thing.  

Then what do you mean "won't cycle a LR round"?

Does it still "cycle" 22rf short rounds?

Edited December 12, 2017 by wildcat junkie

[mowin]

20 minutes ago, wildcat junkie said:

Then what do you mean "won't cycle a LR round"?

Does it still "cycle" 22rf short rounds?

This rifle I'm referring to, has had thousands of rounds through it. My dad purchased it in 1945. He shot the snot out of it, then my two brothers shot the snot out of it before I got my hands on it. The countless shorts that were shot out of that auto, didn't do a dam thing to it.  No, the shorts or longs won't cycle the action, but they didn't wear the action out where it won't cycle the LR rounds.  

Plain and simple, the shorts and longs didn't harm this LR only auto.  The many LR rounds did. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by mowin