grampy

Any News On Full Inclusion For 2018?

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Seems as if by now, we would have heard something from Ric, from the Crossbow Coalition, on a Bill to be voted on this year. Looks like at least another year will slip by without full inclusion. Pretty sad really.

PLEASE, this is not meant to start another crossbow debate! We already have hundreds of pages on that. It's just the musings, of a soon to be 61 year old bowhunter, who is having issues shooting his bow, and still wants to hunt the month of October. 

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It seems they have sold enough crossbows in the last few years that the crossbow companies could grease the right palms to make it happen . We all know they fastest way to get government to do any thing is to pay them money in some way or another.

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13 minutes ago, grampy said:

Seems as if by now, we would have heard something from Ric, from the Crossbow Coalition, on a Bill to be voted on this year. Looks like at least another year will slip by without full inclusion. Pretty sad really.

PLEASE, this is not meant to start another crossbow debate! We already have hundreds of pages on that. It's just the musings, of a soon to be 61 year old bowhunter, who is having issues shooting his bow, and still wants to hunt the month of October. 

grampy, couldn't you get an medical exemption under the current rules that would allow you to use a crossbow during regular bow season?

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17 minutes ago, goosifer said:

grampy, couldn't you get an medical exemption under the current rules that would allow you to use a crossbow during regular bow season?

You need to be almost disabled to qualify for a special permit, which thankfully I am not. Had surgery on my right shoulder last May, but it's still giving me a hard time. And the left shoulder needs surgery too, but not sure when I'll submit to the knife again. Just came up from shooting four arrows downstairs. That's all I could do. In the very near future my bow hunting days will be done. Nothing will ever take the place, of the love I have for my bow. But at least with a crossbow, I can still participate.

Edited by grampy
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My former FIL bought one last year and shot a 6 point two days into crossbow.  He just can't pull that bow back at 70 and a bad shoulder. But he is glad to have two weeks at the least.  Would be nice for it to be open and more opportunities for youngsters as well.

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I will believe NY state crossbow full-inclusion when I see it.  Until then, I am very thankful that the Northern zone opens up almost a month earlier under the current regulations, and I can hunt deer up there for three days in mid-October prior to the opening of the early ML season.   It is also great that the crossbow is legal during the peak of the rut in the Southern zone.       

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I’m in the same boat two,bad shoulders , went from shooting 30 arrows  in practice last year  to not being able to draw once .

There is no medical exemption that allows use of a cross bow in bow season , although I too hear these stories of a guys neighbors friend who has one.

I think basically they use one and tell folks they have some special permit to do so. Something I can see someone being tempted to do .

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22 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

I’m in the same boat two,bad shoulders , went from shooting 30 arrows  in practice last year  to not being able to draw once .

There is no medical exemption that allows use of a cross bow in bow season , although I too hear these stories of a guys neighbors friend who has one.

I think basically they use one and tell folks they have some special permit to do so. Something I can see someone being tempted to do .

You can apply for a modified archery permit and use a draw-loc. That's what I did.

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15 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

Correct , but there is not one for crossbow in bow .

For me I’m not sure I’d like using that draw loc .

I don't like the draw-loc at all, it is very awkward using it and just doesn't feel right to me. I hope they pass full inclusion and will be able to enjoy the warmer days of the archery season in early October.

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1 hour ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

I’m in the same boat two,bad shoulders , went from shooting 30 arrows  in practice last year  to not being able to draw once .

There is no medical exemption that allows use of a cross bow in bow season , although I too hear these stories of a guys neighbors friend who has one.

I think basically they use one and tell folks they have some special permit to do so. Something I can see someone being tempted to do .

Thats what goes down up here. Private land owners use them at will all during the archery seasons.

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16 minutes ago, Real World Hunter said:

Thats what goes down up here. Private land owners use them at will all during the archery seasons.

Was talking to a ECO that I know pretty well.  He told me that the #1 thing he wrote tickets for this past season, was hunting with a crossbow out of season. So your observations seem spot on.

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When I could no longer pull back my compound , and Moog said it’s dialed down as low as the bow could go , I bought a crossbow the next day .

The temptation to use use it right away was great, I hunt private land  never see another person, don’t park in sight of the road , I could easily walk in and out with my compound and leave the crossbow in a building on site , just in case.

A couple hundred dollar fine would be nothing to me, I just didn’t want to be “ that guy” but the gap was not that long, if I had to miss all but the last two,weeks the temptation may have been to great .

Edited by Stay at home Nomad
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Grampy and Nomad, you might consider a 35-40lb DW.   It will kill Deer just as dead and should be significantly easier to draw than 50lbs.   I hear of plenty of folks that successfully hunt with 40lb recurves.   A compound of similar weight should produce way more KE.  Just a thought.  Nothing wrong with the xbow but might be worth trying a lower DW if you want to stay with a compound.   

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I’m going to Panama and getting shot up with stem cells, I will,be able to draw my bow, my hair will grow back and my man boobs will go away .

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2 hours ago, grampy said:

Was talking to a ECO that I know pretty well.  He told me that the #1 thing he wrote tickets for this past season, was hunting with a crossbow out of season. So your observations seem spot on.

The older fellas that i know who use them on their own property have two trains of thought and one is they own the property and pay the taxes so will do whatever they see fit and second they are willing to take the chance and pay the little fine if caught rather than sit their bow season out.

There is still time to get in included and Ny would have no problem waiting a month or two before the season to announce it.

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I told my wife since I could not hunt the last three days, I’d just  start those two weeks of xbow three days early , what some call Larry logic .

I still could not do that though . A fine would be no problem , if you kill a buck and get caught , they’ll take the deer, maybe your xbow, that’s not worth it .

 

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On our own property, there is no doubt that no one would know, if I snuck my crossbow in the woods early. The real problem is that I would know. And if I were lucky enough to shoot a really nice buck, it would "lose" something for me. And what kind of example would I be setting for the young hunter with me? But to be completely honest, I have thought about it.

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2 hours ago, moog5050 said:

Grampy and Nomad, you might consider a 35-40lb DW.   It will kill Deer just as dead and should be significantly easier to draw than 50lbs.   I hear of plenty of folks that successfully hunt with 40lb recurves.   A compound of similar weight should produce way more KE.  Just a thought.  Nothing wrong with the xbow but might be worth trying a lower DW if you want to stay with a compound.   

Besides my right shoulder being in pain drawing the bow. My left shoulder will not hold the bow in the position needed, to keep the form needed to shoot. Shooting a gun or crossbow, I can keep my left elbow, close to my body with no pain at all.

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Seems kind of silly growing up there used to be only a few if any handicap parking spot at any store, now the doctors hand out the parking passes like they did with the opiods and store fronts are full of them, I counted 18 at the grocery store the other day it’s utterly ridiculous, as is when a hunter like Grampy that has a real need to use a crossbow but needs to be feed through a straw to get a permit,,, New York is so broken,, it just common sense...

 

Edited by Bowshotmuzzleloader

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6 minutes ago, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

Seems kind of silly growing up there used to be only a few if any handicap parking spot at any store, now the doctors hand out the parking passes like they did with the opiods and store fronts are full of them, I counted 18 at the grocery store the other day it’s utterly ridiculous, as is when a hunter like Grampy that has a real need to use a crossbow but needs to be feed through a straw to get a permit,,, New York is so broken,, it just common sense...

 

The issue has always been the definition of handicapped.  In nys you need to be a paraplegic and use a breath tube.. again this all comes down to our hunting regulations being voted on by our government rather than managed by a game department.. until we have an amendment giving the right to hunt and fish governed by game department we will always have an uphill battle for common sense  and reasonable regulations

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I've hunted almost everyday of my life.. the rest have been wasted!

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Right.  Some fear guys would flock to,their Dr. and he would sign off on anybody . It could be made that your GP can’t sign off, you would have to see an orthopedic.

The form could ask for tests done and results found, those of us with real injuries and conditions it would be no,problem , but fakers would be drastically reduced.

i just pulled my bow back 2x , first time since Nov. took about 3 seconds and it was an exaggerated draw. But that was better then not being able to,draw at all.

 

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For your sake, I hope they do get full inclusion. I never really supported full inclusion, but I do feel bad for those who cant shoot a vertical bow. We should at least ease up on the medical qualifications for full inclusion. Those who can't draw and accurately shoot bow meeting the minimum reqs should be allowed to use a crossbow in my eyes. 

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43 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

For your sake, I hope they do get full inclusion. I never really supported full inclusion, but I do feel bad for those who cant shoot a vertical bow. We should at least ease up on the medical qualifications for full inclusion. Those who can't draw and accurately shoot bow meeting the minimum reqs should be allowed to use a crossbow in my eyes. 

problem is in real life not in theory the verification process and scheduling a primary care doc visit to get a referral to see an orthopedic doc or whatever the process might be would basically waste a good portion of your season if it wasn't a pre-existing condition. if you're a vet dealing with a VA facility, forget it. might as well right off the whole season and try during the summer for the next one.
i actually think we're worse off, because right now there's minimal exposure to crossbows.  read this article and sign this paper in the guidebook isn't nearly enough. with full inclusion they'd be thoroughly covered under bow ed certification course.  this past season i saw more broken crossbows from very simple operator error mistakes, some brand new. if someone takes a game with a crossbow we call it what it is. no different than a hunter taking a deer with a stick bow versus a hunter with a gun.  you quietly assess it for whatever achievement you think it is and offer congrats if you like.

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I don't know  why someone over 65 can't use a crossbow in all archery now .

And it should be easier for people with medical reasons to use them also . 

 

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