grampy

7mm-08 and H4831 Powder?

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Just picked up some IMR-4831 powder to use for reloading 270 win. With a 140 gr. Nosler BT. using 51.5 grains of powder.

My question, to the reloading guru's here, is could I use this powder for 7mm-08 too? Would be using 140 gr. Nosler BT's for this as well. Was thinking 44.5 grains?

Or should I just go out and try to find some 'Big Game' powder, as that is what Nosler says is most accurate, using the same 45.5 grains?

The more I learn about this stuff. The more I realize, how much I don't know, and how much more I need to learn!!!!

 

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5 minutes ago, grampy said:

Just picked up some IMR-4831 powder to use for reloading 270 win. With a 140 gr. Nosler BT. using 51.5 grains of powder.

My question, to the reloading guru's here, is could I use this powder for 7mm-08 too? Would be using 140 gr. Nosler BT's for this as well. Was thinking 44.5 grains?

Or should I just go out and try to find some 'Big Game' powder, as that is what Nosler says is most accurate, using the same 45.5 grains?

The more I learn about this stuff. The more I realize, how much I don't know, and how much more I need to learn!!!!

 

What's the book say?

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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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Re-17 is good with 140 grainers, RE-15 is better with 120’s. 

Work loads up by starting with the low charge and go up from there noting accuracy each step of the way. Just because a certain load may work for one guy doesn’t mean it will work for you. 

My sons Axis 7-08 does really well with 120 ttsx and Re15 at max load. Savage tends to have a tight allowance from magazine to chamber so you may need to work your OAL a bit.  

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IMR only has it listed for the 7mm-08 in heavier weight bullets. If it was me I would get a powder that is more suited to the smaller case size. There are powders that are listed under both calibers and weights that you listed.  You can get a square peg to fit into a round hole if it is undersized or you get a big enough hammer...lol. That is just my advice.

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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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23 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

IMR only has it listed for the 7mm-08 in heavier weight bullets. If it was me I would get a powder that is more suited to the smaller case size. There are powders that are listed under both calibers and weights that you listed.  You can get a square peg to fit into a round hole if it is undersized or you get a big enough hammer...lol. That is just my advice.

You are absolutely right!  I don't want to go "close enough". Should have known better. The book didn't have these two rounds using the same powder. So I'll just go by the book. Especially since I'm so new to reloading. 

Was just thinking, with almost the same bullet, why couldn't I use the same powder???  Better I stop thinking, and just follow the book. 

Thanks guy's!

 

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3 minutes ago, grampy said:

You are absolutely right!  I don't want to go "close enough". Should have known better. The book didn't have these two rounds using the same powder. So I'll just go by the book. Especially since I'm so new to reloading. 

Was just thinking, with almost the same bullet, why couldn't I use the same powder???  Better I stop thinking, and just follow the book. 

Thanks guy's!

 

There are powders out there that will load those two cartridges. H4895 comes to mind (becasue I use it). SO you could find one that would work in both but probably wouldn't be optimum in either. If that made sense. 

 

Edited by Culvercreek hunt club
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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2 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

There are powders out there that will load those to cartridges. H4895 comes to mind (becasue I use it). SO you could find one that would work in both but probably wouldn't be optimum in either. If that made sense. 

Yes. It makes perfect sense. Thanks Bob.

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I don't have my reloading book in front of me but I use IMR 4350 in a lot of my rifles along with the IMR 4831. I like the IMR 4831 for my small rifles (.222 Rem, and .243 win) and IMR 4350 in my bigger calibers (.270 win, 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, .308 win)

Edited by chas0218
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Newb question - is the difference on all these powders primarily burn rate?

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3 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Newb question - is the difference on all these powders primarily burn rate?

Yes.....Burn rate is the main difference, but there are some other differences, such as sensitivity to extreme temperature...

Some powders perform more consistently  at very high  and/or very low ambient temp,  but that it not generally a big deal unless you are hunting in the desert or in the Arctic...

Burn rate is  the main thing, though... As a general rue of thumb you use  fast burning powders for small cases, medium for medium cases   and slow burners for larger cases...There are exceptions though...Some fairly large  straight walled cartridges such as the 45-70 perform best with fast burning powders...Another good reason to rely upon tested and published load data..

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3 minutes ago, Pygmy said:

Yes.....Burn rate is the main difference, but there are some other differences, such as sensitivity to extreme temperature...

Some powders perform more consistently  at very high  and/or very low ambient temp,  but that it not generally a big deal unless you are hunting in the desert or in the Arctic...

Burn rate is  the main thing, though... As a general rue of thumb you use  fast burning powders for small cases, medium for medium cases   and slow burners for larger cases...There are exceptions though...Some fairly large  straight walled cartridges such as the 45-70 perform best with fast burning powders...Another good reason to rely upon tested and published load data..

And I thought you only knew dirty jokes Dan!

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2 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

And I thought you only knew dirty jokes Dan!

Hey now !!!  One or two of my favorite jokes aren't dirty at all !!

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The case size of the 7mm08 would be better suited to a faster burning powder than H4831 or IMR 4831 which are both popular with 270 handloaders and other cases of similar size like the 280.  I have never loaded the 7mm08 but I may as my wife's rifle is chambered in 7mm08.  I did a little research going through my most up to date manuals and the consensus in both the Lyman and Ken Water's "Pet Loads" is if one is wanting to duplicate factory 140 gr performance Winchester 760 is a favorite, the best accuracy across the board with most bullets seems to favor Hodgdon's H380. So those two powders would be a good starting point. 

There is a huge choice to be had in powders these days and there are many with burn rates similar to H380 And WW760 that would not be bad choices either, stick with your manuals recommendations for starting loads.

I posted a comprehensive powder burn rate chart here in the loading section of this board. 

A little experimenting should have you producing top notch ammo Grampy, it is fun and part of the process.

Al

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Al hit it on the head well. If you find yourself in a bind and need to search for another powder for one you have used, this burn rate chart will give you a good starting point. Find one near the one you used and it should get you going in developing a new load.  

http://www.wwpowder.com/PDF/Burn Rates - 2015-2016.pdf

 

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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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2 hours ago, grampy said:

Just picked up some IMR-4831 powder to use for reloading 270 win. With a 140 gr. Nosler BT. using 51.5 grains of powder.

My book shows you can use the IMR-4831. Shows the starting grams as 52.0 with the max being 56.3 grains. The other powders listed are: IMR-4064, H-414, N160,  IMR4350, RX19, AA-3100, H-4831, RX22, & IMR-7828. The preferred being the N160 with a starting grain of 50.0 and a max of 55.5 grains.

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1 hour ago, airedale said:

The case size of the 7mm08 would be better suited to a faster burning powder than H4831 or IMR 4831 which are both popular with 270 handloaders and other cases of similar size like the 280.  I have never loaded the 7mm08 but I may as my wife's rifle is chambered in 7mm08.  I did a little research going through my most up to date manuals and the consensus in both the Lyman and Ken Water's "Pet Loads" is if one is wanting to duplicate factory 140 gr performance Winchester 760 is a favorite, the best accuracy across the board with most bullets seems to favor Hodgdon's H380. So those two powders would be a good starting point. 

There is a huge choice to be had in powders these days and there are many with burn rates similar to H380 And WW760 that would not be bad choices either, stick with your manuals recommendations for starting loads.

I posted a comprehensive powder burn rate chart here in the loading section of this board. 

A little experimenting should have you producing top notch ammo Grampy, it is fun and part of the process.

Al

Being new to all this. I never realized, just how many different powders are available! Literally hundreds of powder, caliber, bullet combinations!

And a powder, that would be perfect in one round, may be much less desirable in another, or not work at all. Due to burn rates. Never knew any of this, until I recently decided to try reloading.

But thanks to you guy's, I am learning!!!  

Picked up a bunch more supplies over the weekend. Getting closer to my first loads. But still have much more to sort out.

Who say's an old dog can't learn new tricks???.................grin

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1 hour ago, Steve D said:

My book shows you can use the IMR-4831. Shows the starting grams as 52.0 with the max being 56.3 grains. The other powders listed are: IMR-4064, H-414, N160,  IMR4350, RX19, AA-3100, H-4831, RX22, & IMR-7828. The preferred being the N160 with a starting grain of 50.0 and a max of 55.5 grains.

Which book Steve?


"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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6 hours ago, grampy said:

 Nosler says is most accurate, using the same 45.5 grains?

 

 

You have to keep in mind this was in THERE test barrel every gun is a little different.No two guns are the same each one has it's sweat spot.That's why it's better to work up to a desired load.You might find that your gun likes 51.0 instead of the 51.5.I personally load 10 rounds at the starting load and go up .5 grains until i get a tight group. but that's how i was taught.

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For what it is worth....When I was loading 140 grain  Nosler BTs  in my 7MM08  I had a a sub -moa load with IMR 4064....I'll have to  check my log to give you the exact charge, which may or may not shoot well in YOUR rifle...

A few years back I switched to   Barnes X type  bullets in 120 grain with 44.0 grains of RL-15....I suspect that the same weight bullet in Nosler BT would perform as well...This load shot as accurately  in my rifle as the 140 grain load, kicked less and kills  deer just as dead...

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I looked in 3 reloading books I have no loads for 7-08 with IMR4831 the powder is for magnum loads like the 338 but also work well in the 270win. The burn rate may be to slow for the 7-08.

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My Hodgdon manual #26  ( copyright 1992)  lists the following loads for 139-140 grain bullets  in the 7MM08 with H4831...

Starting load 49.0 grains.....Maximum load 50.0 grains.....  They are claiming 2672 fps from an 18 1/2" Remington barrel...

That probably is not an optimum load,  but it certainly would  work out to 300 yards or so  if it produces  acceptable hunting accuracy ( say, 2  MOA)  from your rifle barrel...   What the heck, as long as you have the powder, it is worth a try...In fact I have a can of 4831  and some 140 grain bullets laying around...I may just load up a few and give it a try, just for s***s and giggles...

Not that I plan to quit using my old faithful established load with 120 grain bullets and RL-15....Hehehe..

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17 hours ago, Steve D said:

 

 

lyman.jpg

I only have the Lee and Nosler. Might have to pony up for that one

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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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30 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I only have the Lee and Nosler. Might have to pony up for that one

I got it at Ganders before they closed with a gift card. Softcover edition was only $27.00 with tax. The hard covers are usually a little bit more. It was the latest edition of anything they had on the shelf.. Last printing (for this one) was June 2015.

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One of the great things about loading custom ammo for your own use is the large number of component choices available. All aspects of shooting and hunting can be covered from ammo created and is put together by the handloader to obtain fine accuracy for target-varmint shooting, for plinking loads on the cheap, and for full power performance loads that provide the best terminal effects. There are powders along with bullets manufactured for all applications. It is fun and rewarding to concoct a handloading recipe that accomplishes your ammo goals.

So there can be a large number of powders that can be actually used to produce ammo that works for just about every individual cartridge. That being said there is usually one or two that will stand out and give the most efficient -optimum results as to velocity and accuracy. Those are the powders that will be producing ammo that performs exactly to what the shooter is looking for out of their particular firearm.

Factory ammo these days is better than ever, bullet selection and performance is much improved from what it once was and it is very accurate for the most part. That being said it is still a one size fits all proposition and that is where handloading has advantages. The tweaking of ammo for each individual firearm getting the most out of it. One inch groups  may be shrunk to 3/4" or even less, velocities may also be upped somewhat along with some pretty good savings for the shooters that like a lot of trigger time.

Al

 

Edited by airedale
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