Gun Ownership Up & Violent Crime Down per FBI

[virgil]

I guess you considered your parents to be bullies as well, when they tried to keep you from doing someting stupid and dangerous as a child.

isn't this the same rationale that the Westboro Baptist Church uses for protesting at the funerals of soldiers?  they feel that their beliefs are the only ones that matter and that they are justified in their attempts to further their cause by any means.

[Mr VJP]

On the contrary, it is the opinion of people that are willing to give up the rights of gun owners in America, that are a threat to me and every other gun owner in this country.  I just have a low tolerance for that type of thinking.  I can not see giving that opinion any respect either.

[steve863]

So yes, I do find it a bit offensive to read hunter and gun-owner comments that spit out the name of the NRA like they are some kind of allies of criminals. Sorry, but I have a pretty low opinion of those that spew the doctrine of the Schumers, Kennedys, Boxers, Fiensteins, Bradys, and a long list of other private gun ownership enemies and continue to try to destroy the reputation of the one organization that has done more to defend our ability to continue to own firearms. The motives of such people are clear, and they shouldn't be all that surprised to find out that their anti-gun views are quite offensive to many and likely most of the members of this forum.

Sorry that you are first discovering this, but there are more of us out there than you obviously realized.  Some are reluctant to let their opinions known about this, especially on a forum such as this, while I surely am not.  I will say it again, and you guys can do the math if you are capable.  If only 4 million are NRA members out of 70 million gun owners out there, you can scratch your own heads as to why they only have less than 6% of gun owners as members.  Of course in your own minds you are the defenders of freedom while 66 million other gun owners and the rest of non-gun owners in this country are all left-wing communists.  Whichever way you slice it guys, you are obviously outnumbered, even amongst your fellow gun owners!  LOL

[Dave]

So yes, I do find it a bit offensive to read hunter and gun-owner comments that spit out the name of the NRA like they are some kind of allies of criminals. Sorry, but I have a pretty low opinion of those that spew the doctrine of the Schumers, Kennedys, Boxers, Fiensteins, Bradys, and a long list of other private gun ownership enemies and continue to try to destroy the reputation of the one organization that has done more to defend our ability to continue to own firearms. The motives of such people are clear, and they shouldn't be all that surprised to find out that their anti-gun views are quite offensive to many and likely most of the members of this forum.

Sorry that you are first discovering this, but there are more of us out there than you obviously realized.  Some are reluctant to let their opinions known about this, especially on a forum such as this, while I surely am not.  I will say it again, and you guys can do the math if you are capable.  If only 4 million are NRA members out of 70 million gun owners out there, you can scratch your own heads as to why they only have less than 6% of gun owners as members.  Of course in your own minds you are the defenders of freedom while 66 million other gun owners and the rest of non-gun owners in this country are all left-wing communists.  Whichever way you slice it guys, you are obviously outnumbered, even amongst your fellow gun owners!  LOL

That is a ridiculous comment to make. It's like saying that if you don't go to church you don't believe in God. You are assuming that the gun owners and hunters who are not NRA members are against the NRA. They may very will agree with the NRA but just don't pay to do it.

Dave

[steve863]

So yes, I do find it a bit offensive to read hunter and gun-owner comments that spit out the name of the NRA like they are some kind of allies of criminals. Sorry, but I have a pretty low opinion of those that spew the doctrine of the Schumers, Kennedys, Boxers, Fiensteins, Bradys, and a long list of other private gun ownership enemies and continue to try to destroy the reputation of the one organization that has done more to defend our ability to continue to own firearms. The motives of such people are clear, and they shouldn't be all that surprised to find out that their anti-gun views are quite offensive to many and likely most of the members of this forum.

Sorry that you are first discovering this, but there are more of us out there than you obviously realized.  Some are reluctant to let their opinions known about this, especially on a forum such as this, while I surely am not.  I will say it again, and you guys can do the math if you are capable.  If only 4 million are NRA members out of 70 million gun owners out there, you can scratch your own heads as to why they only have less than 6% of gun owners as members.  Of course in your own minds you are the defenders of freedom while 66 million other gun owners and the rest of non-gun owners in this country are all left-wing communists.  Whichever way you slice it guys, you are obviously outnumbered, even amongst your fellow gun owners!  LOL

That is a ridiculous comment to make. It's like saying that if you don't go to church you don't believe in God. You are assuming that the gun owners and hunters who are not NRA members are against the NRA. They may very will agree with the NRA but just don't pay to do it.

Dave

Actually if you do believe in God, why wouldn't you go to church?  At least a good percentage of the time if not every Sunday.  There are plenty of churches out there of all denominations that should fill anyones bill who claims to believe in a God.

Once again you boys are twisting things the ways you THINK people should think.  I have yet to hear any of you address the reasons for why you think 66 million gun owners choose not to join the NRA?  Saying that the 4 million are the savers of freedom while not addressing the other 66 million gun owners reasons for not joining is BS in it's purest form. The best you guys can do is call them cheap and not wanting to pay dues.  Anyone with half a brain can figure that there's got to be more reasons than that when people pay more for their freakin cell phones per month than a 1 years membership to the NRA would cost.  Of course you guys are far from rational thinkers, so I won't be holding my breath for  honest and straightforward reasons directly out of your own mouths.

[Dave]

So yes, I do find it a bit offensive to read hunter and gun-owner comments that spit out the name of the NRA like they are some kind of allies of criminals. Sorry, but I have a pretty low opinion of those that spew the doctrine of the Schumers, Kennedys, Boxers, Fiensteins, Bradys, and a long list of other private gun ownership enemies and continue to try to destroy the reputation of the one organization that has done more to defend our ability to continue to own firearms. The motives of such people are clear, and they shouldn't be all that surprised to find out that their anti-gun views are quite offensive to many and likely most of the members of this forum.

Sorry that you are first discovering this, but there are more of us out there than you obviously realized.  Some are reluctant to let their opinions known about this, especially on a forum such as this, while I surely am not.  I will say it again, and you guys can do the math if you are capable.  If only 4 million are NRA members out of 70 million gun owners out there, you can scratch your own heads as to why they only have less than 6% of gun owners as members.  Of course in your own minds you are the defenders of freedom while 66 million other gun owners and the rest of non-gun owners in this country are all left-wing communists.  Whichever way you slice it guys, you are obviously outnumbered, even amongst your fellow gun owners!  LOL

That is a ridiculous comment to make. It's like saying that if you don't go to church you don't believe in God. You are assuming that the gun owners and hunters who are not NRA members are against the NRA. They may very will agree with the NRA but just don't pay to do it.

Dave

Actually if you do believe in God, why wouldn't you go to church?  At least a good percentage of the time if not every Sunday.  There are plenty of churches out there of all denominations that should fill anyones bill who claims to believe in a God.

Once again you boys are twisting things the ways you THINK people should think.  I have yet to hear any of you address the reasons for why you think 66 million gun owners choose not to join the NRA?  Saying that the 4 million are the savers of freedom while not addressing the other 66 million gun owners reasons for not joining is BS in it's purest form. The best you guys can do is call them cheap and not wanting to pay dues.  Anyone with half a brain can figure that there's got to be more reasons than that when people pay more for their freakin cell phones per month than a 1 years membership to the NRA would cost.  Of course you guys are far from rational thinkers, so I won't be holding my breath for  honest and straightforward reasons directly out of your own mouths.

Seems to me that you have a great deal of disrespect for the members on this site who don't share your opinion. Either they can't figure things out or they have half of a brain.  As in life there are people who lead and those who follow so maybe, the people who don't put their money where their mouth is are riding on the coat tails of those who do. In many states they don't have the restrictive gun laws as we do here in the North East so they don't have the problems we do. But if they did, they would join in a heart beat.

Dave

[virgil]

As in life there are people who lead and those who follow so maybe, the people who don't put their money where their mouth is are riding on the coat tails of those who do.

Or, maybe they just don't believe that their rights are in as much danger as others on this forum- or that concessions on gun rights will lead to the downfall of the country.  Or, maybe they believe that compromising some of their rights will make for a better and safer society for everyone.

[steve863]

Seems to me that you have a great deal of disrespect for the members on this site who don't share your opinion. Either they can't figure things out or they have half of a brain. 

Dave

I don't have respect?? Hahahaha  Please go back to the beginning of this thread and tell me who was the guy called out by the person starting this thread?  I had NO intentions of wasting my time with him or any of you on this topic, but he obviously had the desire to drag me thru the mud here for he thinks his "facts" are so irrefutable.  I ask you guys some simple questions and you do your damndest to not address them.  If you guys just regurgitate what the NRA  tells you and can't have an opinion of your own, then people surely won't think highly of your intelligence.

[Mr VJP]

At one time in the history of the world, the majority of people thought the Earth was the center of the universe.  Even after that, the majority of the people on this planet thought it was flat.  So much for the majority being smarter or right.  So majority is no proof of gun owners being smarter than better informed NRA members.

P.S.  The majority of Americans voted for Obama in the last election too.  Once again, how informed is the majority in this country?

[nyantler]

So yes, I do find it a bit offensive to read hunter and gun-owner comments that spit out the name of the NRA like they are some kind of allies of criminals. Sorry, but I have a pretty low opinion of those that spew the doctrine of the Schumers, Kennedys, Boxers, Fiensteins, Bradys, and a long list of other private gun ownership enemies and continue to try to destroy the reputation of the one organization that has done more to defend our ability to continue to own firearms. The motives of such people are clear, and they shouldn't be all that surprised to find out that their anti-gun views are quite offensive to many and likely most of the members of this forum.

Sorry that you are first discovering this, but there are more of us out there than you obviously realized.  Some are reluctant to let their opinions known about this, especially on a forum such as this, while I surely am not.  I will say it again, and you guys can do the math if you are capable.  If only 4 million are NRA members out of 70 million gun owners out there, you can scratch your own heads as to why they only have less than 6% of gun owners as members.  Of course in your own minds you are the defenders of freedom while 66 million other gun owners and the rest of non-gun owners in this country are all left-wing communists.  Whichever way you slice it guys, you are obviously outnumbered, even amongst your fellow gun owners!  LOL

That is a ridiculous comment to make. It's like saying that if you don't go to church you don't believe in God. You are assuming that the gun owners and hunters who are not NRA members are against the NRA. They may very will agree with the NRA but just don't pay to do it.

Dave

Actually if you do believe in God, why wouldn't you go to church?  At least a good percentage of the time if not every Sunday.  There are plenty of churches out there of all denominations that should fill anyones bill who claims to believe in a God.

Once again you boys are twisting things the ways you THINK people should think.  I have yet to hear any of you address the reasons for why you think 66 million gun owners choose not to join the NRA?  Saying that the 4 million are the savers of freedom while not addressing the other 66 million gun owners reasons for not joining is BS in it's purest form. The best you guys can do is call them cheap and not wanting to pay dues.  Anyone with half a brain can figure that there's got to be more reasons than that when people pay more for their freakin cell phones per month than a 1 years membership to the NRA would cost.  Of course you guys are far from rational thinkers, so I won't be holding my breath for  honest and straightforward reasons directly out of your own mouths.

The reason that 66 million gun owners don't belong to the NRA is simply apathy... the same reason that only 30% of the U.S. population votes... the same reason that only a dozen people out of hundreds at your local gun club do all the work for the club.. Simple American made APATHY... like Dave says... people would rather ride on others coat tails than get involved ... it might take up too much of their MTV, or beer drinking time... or interrupt their texting... and lets face it.. it IS because they are cheap as well... oh, and I might as well throw in ingnorant to what is really going on with our gun rights... I'm curious whether Steve or virgil support any hunting or gun related organizations... maybe they're just waiting for their new poster boy Mark Zuckerberg to start up a "kill what you eat" club that they can join.. :

[WNYBuckHunter]

So yes, I do find it a bit offensive to read hunter and gun-owner comments that spit out the name of the NRA like they are some kind of allies of criminals. Sorry, but I have a pretty low opinion of those that spew the doctrine of the Schumers, Kennedys, Boxers, Fiensteins, Bradys, and a long list of other private gun ownership enemies and continue to try to destroy the reputation of the one organization that has done more to defend our ability to continue to own firearms. The motives of such people are clear, and they shouldn't be all that surprised to find out that their anti-gun views are quite offensive to many and likely most of the members of this forum.

Sorry that you are first discovering this, but there are more of us out there than you obviously realized.  Some are reluctant to let their opinions known about this, especially on a forum such as this, while I surely am not.  I will say it again, and you guys can do the math if you are capable.  If only 4 million are NRA members out of 70 million gun owners out there, you can scratch your own heads as to why they only have less than 6% of gun owners as members.  Of course in your own minds you are the defenders of freedom while 66 million other gun owners and the rest of non-gun owners in this country are all left-wing communists.  Whichever way you slice it guys, you are obviously outnumbered, even amongst your fellow gun owners!  LOL

That is a ridiculous comment to make. It's like saying that if you don't go to church you don't believe in God. You are assuming that the gun owners and hunters who are not NRA members are against the NRA. They may very will agree with the NRA but just don't pay to do it.

Dave

Actually if you do believe in God, why wouldn't you go to church?  At least a good percentage of the time if not every Sunday.  There are plenty of churches out there of all denominations that should fill anyones bill who claims to believe in a God.

Once again you boys are twisting things the ways you THINK people should think.  I have yet to hear any of you address the reasons for why you think 66 million gun owners choose not to join the NRA?  Saying that the 4 million are the savers of freedom while not addressing the other 66 million gun owners reasons for not joining is BS in it's purest form. The best you guys can do is call them cheap and not wanting to pay dues.  Anyone with half a brain can figure that there's got to be more reasons than that when people pay more for their freakin cell phones per month than a 1 years membership to the NRA would cost.  Of course you guys are far from rational thinkers, so I won't be holding my breath for  honest and straightforward reasons directly out of your own mouths.

Not to get too far off with the religion stuff, but there are many many people that believe in god but dont go to church. Some of them just dont care to go to church, then there are others that believe in god, but not organized religion, and those are only two of the countless reasons people have for not going. Sorry steve, but you are making wayyyyy too many assumptions about this and the number of NRA members and why there arent more. You should have figured out by now that most people are just plain lazy and dont do alot of things like some think they should.

[virgil]

I'm curious whether Steve or virgil support any hunting or gun related organizations... maybe they're just waiting for their new poster boy Mark Zuckerberg to start up a "kill what you eat" club that they can join.. [img alt=:]http://huntingny.com/forums/Smileys/akyhne/rolleyes.gif[/img]

i do/have supported DU, NAHC, !% for the Planet, Montana Trout Foundation, Yellowstone Park Foundation.  not getting the Zuckerberg reference- i'm sure someone else on this forum will understand this witty reference.  who exactly are 'they' and why would you think that zuckerberg is 'their posterboy'.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I'm curious whether Steve or virgil support any hunting or gun related organizations... maybe they're just waiting for their new poster boy Mark Zuckerberg to start up a "kill what you eat" club that they can join.. [img alt=:]http://huntingny.com/forums/Smileys/akyhne/rolleyes.gif[/img]

i do/have supported DU, NAHC, !% for the Planet, Montana Trout Foundation, Yellowstone Park Foundation.  not getting the Zuckerberg reference- i'm sure someone else on this forum will understand this witty reference.  who exactly are 'they' and why would you think that zuckerberg is 'their posterboy'.

It would be a reference to this...

http://huntingny.com/forums/index.php/topic,4848.0.html

[ramrod]

i can see both sides of this argument

on one side you have the "give em an inch they take a mile" mentality and if you dont fight every single screwy gun law they try to throw at the law abiding gun owners then it will certainly get out of hand.  to an extent, i agree.

but on the other side you cant just scrap all of the current laws and regulations and make it a free for all.  i dont want to be standing in line at gander mountain behind a blood or crip flying gang colors waiting to legaly buy an easily obtainable glock  knowing that he is not likely headed to a nysrpa sponsored competition.

i was an nra member for a good many years. i elected to not renew my membership a few years ago based on the amount of junk mail i received from them and not to mention the hassling phonecalls.  a good portion of my membership dues was spent on postage, telephone operators, and magazine publication. 

    i have talked to a good number of people that feel the same way and have not renewed their membership for those very same reasons.

  i am a member of a local gun club and participate in competitive shooting on a weekly basis.  i hunt almost every season available and own all kinds of firearms for hunting, target, and personal protection. 

i wonder how many of the 66million gun owning non members were once members that just simply tired of the heckling?

[Dave]

i was an nra member for a good many years. i elected to not renew my  membership a few years ago based on the amount of junk mail i received  from them and not to mention the hassling phonecalls.  a good portion of  my membership dues was spent on postage, telephone operators, and  magazine publication. 

    i have talked to a good number of people  that feel the same way and have not renewed their membership for those  very same reasons.

Ramrod , the same thing holds true if you have ever donated money to any organization. Cancer research, Salvation Army, Red Cross, Animal groups that protect dogs etc. They must sell your information to everyone

who is looking for money and it never stops. When this happened to me I stop donating period you can't support every group that's looking for money, you would go broke.

Dave

[ELMER J. FUDD]

  Ramrod hit the nail on the head w/ the inch & mile quote. Pro gun advocates seem to be fighting a losing battle. So why not shoot for the stars and land on the moon? I don't see why any other gun owner would mock an organization or individual doing more for their rights than they are.

  VJP was harsh when he said "if your not NRA, your nothin'" I think that's where this whole thing jumped off on an older thread. (correct me if I'm wrong) I appreciate guys that stand up for all of us though. My NRA membership ran out last year. I'll likely renew again, but maybe not until next year, whenever I get around to it....gotta run...

[WNYBuckHunter]

but on the other side you cant just scrap all of the current laws and regulations and make it a free for all.  i dont want to be standing in line at gander mountain behind a blood or crip flying gang colors waiting to legaly buy an easily obtainable glock  knowing that he is not likely headed to a nysrpa sponsored competition.

Do you really know how easy it is to obtain a handgun illegally? Especially for those already embedded in the gang or other criminal circles? Its a heck of alot easier for them than it is for you or I to obtain one legally. They dont have to add anything to a permit, or go to the county clerk, or wait a certain number of days, or stand there at Gander Mountain and wait for Glenn the gun dept worker to fill out the paperwork. They just go up the street to Jimmy the crack and gun dealer and hand over a few hundred bucks, its really that easy. All the gun laws in the world wont stop that from happening.

Now dont get me wrong, I do not agree with the free for all stance, but I am an NRA member and do not agree with many of the gun laws that are on the books or most of what is being proposed currently.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

...and WNY just hit the next nail on the head...

[ramrod]

Do you really know how easy it is to obtain a handgun illegally?

nope. honestly i dont "know" how easy it is.  iv heard that same ol' story about johnny the crackhead gundealer but never had i had the pleasure of meeting him.  ;D

what im saying is that without any gunlaws in place johnny and gander would be considered equals in the aspect of providing guns to criminals.

and id rather shop at gander then the corner of lyell ave and s salina.  ???

so within reason i can see where certain restrictions have their place.

and also where overkill comes into play as ppl like you and i have more and more hoops to jump thru to obtain a firearm legally but johnny keeps sellin em like cotton candy at a carnival no matter how many billions of tax dollars are spent on implementing new gun controlling measures.

[WNYBuckHunter]

the corner of lyell ave and s salina.  ???

As I type this, Im not far from that corner lol

[ramrod]

the corner of lyell ave and s salina.  ???

As I type this, Im not far from that corner lol

ha that was a reference to syr and roch.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yeah I figured out it wasnt just Rochester after I thought of where Salina St is. Im just off of Lyell right now (in Rochester) and Salina St (in Rochester) doesnt cross Lyell even though its close. Im in the general vicinity of both right now. Fun neighborhood 

[Dave]

I am sure the mean streets of Rochester do not compare to those in Brooklyn and the Bronx. But every town and city had it's criminal element that has access to illegal guns. It is unrealestic to think more regulations mean anything to these criminals and gang members. Simply put they don't buy guns legally and will never be able to. So who are these regulations aimed at? The law biding citizens of this country who foot the bill for everything this government imposes in them.

Dave

[steve863]

It is unrealestic to think more regulations mean anything to these criminals and gang members. Simply put they don't buy guns legally and will never be able to.

Dave

If we do away with NICS checks as some here advocate, or any other existing gun laws, what would be the difference between a legally bought gun and one illegally bought????  How would it be any different if one buys a gun at a gun shop with no questions asked or on a street corner?  When you say 'legal", you are implying there are laws associated with it.  If there were NO gun laws, there could be NO distinction to what is legal and what isn't, and in that case there would be NO difference buying one from a gun dealer or some slime bucket on a street corner.  Just an FYI for you fellas who hate ALL gun laws, yet use the same worn out tune that "criminals don't buy guns legally".

[Dave]

It is unrealestic to think more regulations mean anything to these criminals and gang members. Simply put they don't buy guns legally and will never be able to.

Dave

If we do away with NICS checks as some here advocate, or any other existing gun laws, what would be the difference between a legally bought gun and one illegally bought? ???  How would it be any different if one buys a gun at a gun shop with no questions asked or on a street corner?  When you say 'legal", you are implying there are laws associated with it.  If there were NO gun laws, there could be NO distinction to what is legal and what isn't, and in that case there would be NO difference buying one from a gun dealer or some slime bucket on a street corner.  Just an FYI for you fellas who hate ALL gun laws, yet use the same worn out tune that "criminals don't buy guns legally".

Well do they?