PA Girth Chart vs Live Weight Comparison

[Hunter007]

11 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

On live weight, per SJ's numbers, it looks like +/- 1 pound in weight and +/- 1/8" in distance.  

A animal with the same dimensions  can still  have either more fat or more muscle mass they have different weights so logic tells  me no chart can be that accurate sorry,    if you happened to get good results doing it that way .

Could just have been luck. 

Do a lot of animals it is going to very alot just like with people .

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Storm914

[wolc123]

3 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

A animal with the same dimensions  can still  have either more fat or more muscle mass they have different weights so logic tells  me no chart can be that accurate sorry,    if you happened to get good results doing it that way .

Could just have been luck. 

Do a lot of animals it is going to very alot just like with people .

 

That is very true.  Big chests must be a genetic thing in the area where I killed my last three bucks (including the bb).  All of them had thick meat over the rib-cages compared to other deer I have processed.  Odds are that they were all related since they were all killed within a couple hundred yards of each other and had all fed their whole lives from the same clover patch.   A DNA test would be the only way to know for sure.  I still have bio material from each if anyone wants to volunteer that service.    

[Hunter007]

6 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

That is very true.  Big chests must be a genetic thing in the area where I killed my last three bucks (including the bb).  All of them had thick meat over the rib-cages compared to other deer I have processed.  Odds are that they were all related since they were all killed within a couple hundred yards of each other and had all fed their whole lives from the same clover patch.   A DNA test would be the only way to know for sure.  I still have bio material from each if anyone wants to volunteer that service.    

That is true , Was just going to add that you get a chart  that was done from a certain region .

The deer in that region being genetically  more related and eating the same foods  will get you better result then , farther away from wherever they got there numbers  from it's going to very alot  more .

Edited November 21, 2018 by Storm914

[Four Season Whitetail's]

That is very true.  Big chests must be a genetic thing in the area where I killed my last three bucks (including the bb).  All of them had thick meat over the rib-cages compared to other deer I have processed.  Odds are that they were all related since they were all killed within a couple hundred yards of each other and had all fed their whole lives from the same clover patch.   A DNA test would be the only way to know for sure.  I still have bio material from each if anyone wants to volunteer that service.    

If you really knew the way of the Whitetail Deer you would see how foolish that statement sounds.


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[wolc123]

Just now, Four Season Whitetail's said:

If you really knew the way of the Whitetail Deer you would see how foolish that statement sounds.


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Do you want the lower jaw from this one to do an accurate age estimate ?  How about the tongue ?

[Jdubs]

53 minutes ago, Steuben Jerry said:

I'll post up the usable meat weight when she gets it back from her processor.

Don't forget to include the deer nuts!

Edited November 21, 2018 by Jdubs

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Do you want the lower jaw from this one to do an accurate age estimate ?  How about the tongue ?

Why would One care? In some circles that buck is not a shooter regardless. The statement that 3 bucks being related in an area is a big time stretch and to say some may be related because of how thick meat may be around the ribs is foolish at best. So many other factors would be in play before DNA.


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[Steuben Jerry]

34 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

 Read the title of the post to get a better idea about that.

I am sure that our fine neighbor's to the south used a lot more than one data point to come up with that chart.

 

edit:

I see that he weighed it today and it was killed yesterday and I can't imagine that he would leave the guts in it overnight so you are probably right about that.   Some bucks carry more weight in the rear and that was probably the case here.  

No, can't say I've ever hung them in the garage with their inner workings intact.  

[Steuben Jerry]

12 minutes ago, Jdubs said:

Don't forget to include the deer nuts!

Lol, guts are gone but twig and berries are still attached.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Steuben Jerry

[G-Man]

1st it's not my chart it's the pa game departments chart.

The same game department that placed antler restriction on the entire state that so many here want as well.. but if their chart is faulty them.perhaps their antler restriction idea is also faulty..

perhaps the directions of pulling the tape tight need to be followed as well as how it was gutted splitting the ribs along sternum would also result in a smaller result as chest cavity would be collapsed and not natural .. if not done to the same standard when chart was created the chart will not be anywhere near as accurate.  And if In fact the deer was suppose to only weigh 140 by the chart and it in fact weighs more.. would that not give you back more useable meat which is the end free result of the chart..  and it is not just Pennsylvania here is another link from whitetails unlimited

https://www.whitetailsunlimited.com/media/media-resources/calculate-live-weight-of-deer.phtml/

[Robhuntandfish]

I use this guy! 

 

[wolc123]

19 minutes ago, Steuben Jerry said:

Lol, guts are gone but twig and berries are still attached.

Ah, that explains it, your wieght included the nuts.  I left them in the woods this time figuring the antlers and empty sack would be enough for "proof of sex".  Those from the bb were not all that great when cooked anyhow.  Maybe butter is the secret ingedient in making them good.  I know Chef and Rinella use that in their recipe (I used olive oil ) .

Th bb liver that am eating now as I type is "to die for" however. I also left that in the woods from the 3.5.  I always find older deer livers a little on the chewy side.

[Five Seasons]

This live weight thing baffles me. Who isn’t field dressing their deer as soon as reasonable?

Easier drag, better for the meat.

And a scale is hard on the back? Not with a a $40 digital hanging scale and a $80 harbor freight hoist...

This whole thing is nonsense.


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[wolc123]

41 minutes ago, Belo said:

This live weight thing baffles me. Who isn’t field dressing their deer as soon as reasonable?

Easier drag, better for the meat.

And a scale is hard on the back? Not with a a $40 digital hanging scale and a $80 harbor freight hoist...

This whole thing is nonsense.


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I always try and get the guts out asap, but there are some exceptions.  On more that one occasion, dropping a doe with a shoulder blade shot, and not getting on that job right away, has resulted in the harvest of a trailing buck.  In that situation, I like to delay it for about a half hour.  I was delayed a half hour on the buck pictured above, because I had to get help to drag him thru a swamp.  That is how long it took for my brother to arrive at the site.  I did not want that muddy swamp water inside the carcass.   

If you have enough headroom for a hanging scale on your hoist then I agree with the back strain thing.  I do not have that much room where I skin and hang (I use to prior to insulating the garage).  

If you think the PA chest girth chart is "nonsense", why don't you complain to the PA game commission ?  I find it a handy tool to estimate the volume of venison that I need to last my family thru the year.   In fact, next to Chef's recommendation to the butt-out II, I consider G-man's recommendation of the PA chest girth chart the most valuable information I have learned on this site.  It may not give an exact weight but it is close enough for me.  

Now that I put one on the scale for comparison, I have an idea of what kind of "correction factor" to apply.  Weight is not all that important to me anyhow.  When you put a fresh-killed deer on scale, most of that weight is made up of water, which has no nutritional value.  Volume of venison is my main concern.   I know about how many quart packages I need for a year.  Keeping records of chest girth per quarts of lean meat obtained would likely be more consistent than correlating it to scale weight.    

Edited November 22, 2018 by wolc123

[philoshop]

The only time(s) I haven't gutted the deer where it fell is when I had to float it out of a swamp situation. They float better with an intact body cavity; and it keeps all the nasty swamp stuff away from the meat.

[Five Seasons]

I always try and get the guts out asap, but there are some exceptions.  On more that one occasion, dropping a doe with a shoulder blade shot, and not getting on that job right away, has resulted in the harvest of a trailing buck.  In that situation, I like to delay it for about a half hour.  I was delayed a half hour on the buck pictured above, because I had to get help to drag him thru a swamp.  That is how long it took for my brother to arrive at the site.  I did not want that muddy swamp water inside the carcass.   
If you have enough headroom for a hanging scale on your hoist then I agree with the back strain thing.  I do not have that much room where I skin and hang (I use to prior to insulating the garage).  
If you think the PA chest girth chart is "nonsense", why don't you complain to the PA game commission ?  I find it a handy tool to estimate the volume of venison that I need to last my family thru the year.   In fact, next to Chef's recommendation to the butt-out II, I consider G-man's recommendation of the PA chest girth chart the most valuable information I have learned on this site.  It may not give an exact weight but it is close enough for me.  
Now that I put one on the scale for comparison, I have an idea of what kind of "correction factor" to apply.  Weight is not all that important to me anyhow.  When you put a fresh-killed deer on scale, most of that weight is made up of water, which has no nutritional value.  Volume of venison is my main concern.   I know about how many quart packages I need for a year.  Keeping records of chest girth per quarts of lean meat obtained would likely be more consistent than correlating it to scale weight.    

You need that to estimate how much venison you need?

Most people I know understand that they need a certain combo of big (160+) medium (120-160) and small. And of course understanding what they will lose from wounds.

And that tool is 40 pounds off...


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[UpStateRedNeck]

On 11/21/2018 at 5:17 PM, turkeyfeathers said:

At 4 am bar closing time I’ve miscalculated a few woman’s weight based on chest I saw   Didn’t weigh them but was slightly ashamed as I snuck out of their house 

I still catch hell for this from my buddies.

[wolc123]

On 11/21/2018 at 6:09 PM, G-Man said:

1st it's not my chart it's the pa game departments chart.

The same game department that placed antler restriction on the entire state that so many here want as well.. but if their chart is faulty them.perhaps their antler restriction idea is also faulty..

perhaps the directions of pulling the tape tight need to be followed as well as how it was gutted splitting the ribs along sternum would also result in a smaller result as chest cavity would be collapsed and not natural .. if not done to the same standard when chart was created the chart will not be anywhere near as accurate.  And if In fact the deer was suppose to only weigh 140 by the chart and it in fact weighs more.. would that not give you back more useable meat which is the end free result of the chart..  and it is not just Pennsylvania here is another link from whitetails unlimited

https://www.whitetailsunlimited.com/media/media-resources/calculate-live-weight-of-deer.phtml/

I  got around to butchering the 182 pound, 42" chest girth western NY buck that I took on opening day last night (was up past midnight doing it).  After 11 days of hanging with the hide on and the temp at 33 - 40 degrees, it was aged just right.  The meat felt like it did when fresh killed.   Surprisingly, the meat damage was far less than I expected, having taken (3) 12 gauge sabot slugs (one just below the spine, one just above and a "finisher" to the neck).  All three passed thru, so energy transfer was incomplete.  The bloodied meat likely totaled around 1 pound.  I also trimmed off most of the fat, which might have totaled 5 pounds.   I left the liver in the woods, as I always do from deer more than 6 months old.  I wonder if the PA chart considers that part of the edible meat.  The heart was big (kept for pickling), probably weighing about 1.5 pounds.   The high slug took out just a couple of chops and what remained of the tenderloins filled (3) quart bags.  I also made (2) small quart-bag sized roasts.  The rest made (38) quart bags of grind.   We ate the tenderloins the day after the kill.   The total weight of edible meat that we kept had to be around 90 pounds.  The PA chart shows 94 pounds edible for a 42" chest girth and 103 pounds edible for a 182 pound carcass weight.     That is plenty close enough for me.  Next time I might not pull the tape measure quite so tight, then maybe the weight correlation will be a little closer.   The PA chart showed a field-dressed weight of only 170 pounds for a 42" chest girth. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by wolc123

[Dom]

Time to bust chops.to get an accurate measurement  You would need to use a seamstress tape and not a shop/carpenters ruler Subtract 4 inches and you will be closer to the weight chart.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I  got around to butchering the 182 pound, 42" chest girth western NY buck that I took on opening day last night (was up past midnight doing it).  After 11 days of hanging with the hide on and the temp at 33 - 40 degrees, it was aged just right.  The meat felt like it did when fresh killed.   Surprisingly, the meat damage was far less than I expected, having taken (3) 12 gauge sabot slugs (one just below the spine, one just above and a "finisher" to the neck).  All three passed thru, so energy transfer was incomplete.  The bloodied meat likely totaled around 1 pound.  I also trimmed off most of the fat, which might have totaled 5 pounds.   I left the liver in the woods, as I always do from deer more than 6 months old.  I wonder if the PA chart considers that part of the edible meat.  The heart was big (kept for pickling), probably weighing about 1.5 pounds.   The high slug took out just a couple of chops and what remained of the tenderloins filled (3) quart bags.  I also made (2) small quart-bag sized roasts.  The rest made (38) quart bags of grind.   We ate the tenderloins the day after the kill.   The total weight of edible meat that we kept had to be around 90 pounds.  The PA chart shows 94 pounds edible for a 42" chest girth and 103 pounds edible for a 182 pound carcass weight.     That is plenty close enough for me.  Next time I might not pull the tape measure quite so tight, then maybe the weight correlation will be a little closer.   The PA chart showed a field-dressed weight of only 170 pounds for a 42" chest girth. 

Stop the stupidity. If you think anyone cares what your buck weighs them put it on a normal scale and show it. Until then it's just more bull !!


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[wolc123]

24 minutes ago, Dom said:

Time to bust chops.to get an accurate measurement  You would need to use a seamstress tape and not a shop/carpenters ruler Subtract 4 inches and you will be closer to the weight chart.

I don't see how that would help.  The weight was 12 pounds over not under.  I suppose a seamstress tape would have broken if I pulled it as tight as the carpenter's scale though, and the looser pull may have given better agreement with the PA chart.  I think the real reason both SJ's daughters and my own heavier field-dressed weights, compared to the PA chart predictions, is because the farther north you go, the heavier the deer get.      

[G-Man]

I would think edible meat would include heart and liver.. jmo though. Seems pretty close for any real purpose . They have coralated pretty close for me as well but I use a 1/4 in rope then measure that.. 

[wolc123]

26 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Stop the stupidity. If you think anyone cares what your buck weighs them put it on a normal scale and show it. Until then it's just more bull !!


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Can you PM me your address so I can send you the lower jaw for proper ageing ?  I will do the Euro on Saturday with my power washer.  I usually determine the age based on the skull size.  My preliminary guess for this one is, based on the 182 pound field-dressed weight and the 10" G-2 lengths is 3.5 years.   By "normal", are you talking about one of those $ 40 "made in China" Harbor-freight models ?   What is wrong with a "legal for trade", "made in USA", Chatilion butcher's balance ?   

[Buckmaster7600]

Chest girth of of 31” gutted weight 117lbs, my opinion of the pa chest girth chart is, its bullshit.

 

 

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[wolc123]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Chest girth of of 31” gutted weight 117lbs, my opinion of the pa chest girth chart is, its bullshit.

 

 

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Thanks for the additional data point.   Here is an "average"  NY correction factor using our three available data points:

1)  SJ's daughter's buck: 40" chest girth, 180 pound actual field-dressed weight,  PA chart prediction = 144 pounds (- 20.0 %).

2) My gun buck: 42" chest girth, 182 pound actual field-dressed weight, PA chart prediction = 170 pounds (- 6.59 %).

3) Your doe (congrats by the way): 31" chest girth, 117 pound actual field-dressed weight, PA chart prediction = 74 pounds (- 36.8 %).

 

Giving equal weight to each data points, the average correction would be 21.1 %.

For a NY deer, multiply the field dressed weight from the PA chart by 1.21.  That would give my 35" girth button buck a field-dressed weight of almost 120 pounds, probably a NY state record for a "wild" six month old.  FSW probably has a hard time fattening his tame ones up that much behind his fence.  That would also mean that the smaller-antlered, but larger chest girth (43"), that I killed in the same woods with my crossbow last season, had a field dressed weight of 220 pounds.  That would be a record for me.  My heaviest buck, that I had put on a scale prior to this year (and also my largest rack) was 178 pounds.   Like I mentioned before though, weight of a deer don't mean all that much to me since it is always more than 60 % water.  Water has no nutritional value.  Volume of venison is what I am after, and the chest girth method provides a better estimate of that.   

 

In all three cases here, where the deer was put on a scale, the NY deer are heavier than the weights predicted by the PA chart.   Maybe you were pulling the tape measure way too tight on your doe (did you use a seamstresses tape or mark a string like G-man).  My guess is that you got her on the scale very soon after gutting her. That ends up with a lot of water weight.   My buck had hung outside in a tree for about 6 hours prior to weighing and I think SJ put his daughter's  buck on a scale the day after gutting.   Allowing some time for the carcass to dry out gets rid of some of that water weight.  Thanks again for participating in this complicated mathematical experiment. I can give my daughter back her calculator now.

Edited December 6, 2018 by wolc123