Clarification of the Draft Deer Management Plan from the DEC

[WNYBuckHunter]

To which some gun hunters may respond: why should bowhunters not be subject to the same DMP rules as the rest of the deer hunting fraternity? Just sayin......

You have a point there.

[orion]

"First we pay for a bow license even if we just want to use a bow in gun season we need a license."

You don't need a bow license to use your bow during rifle season

[Bendog]

I'm a bowhunter, but I could understand a gun hunter's sentiment if they replied: Your bow license entitles you to a lengthy season, first crack at whitetails that are largely unpressured, under weather conditions that are typically more comfortable that those experienced by gun hunters.....

Trying to see both sides here, and as I bowhunter I think we have it pretty good.....the Oct. 1 opener would be a long-awaited improvement.....

[Dave]

I'm a bowhunter, but I could understand a gun hunter's sentiment if they replied: Your bow license entitles you to a lengthy season, first crack at whitetails that are largely unpressured, under weather conditions that are typically more comfortable that those experienced by gun hunters.....

Trying to see both sides here, and as I bowhunter I think we have it pretty good.....the Oct. 1 opener would be a long-awaited improvement.....

Can't argue with that, all true. Plus we never paid for DMP.

Dave

[G-Man]

I think the crossbow will be brought in to help take those antlerless deer out on dmp's. Face it a lot of hunters will not shoot a doe!  they get the dmp but never fill it or report they filled it so the state wont issue more next year. The take for bow hunters is dismal when you look at total numbers of bow hunters in the woods. i believe many pass shots waiting for the "big one" so we are hurting ourselves in showing that bows alone are not effecient harvesting tools. The dec is mandated to controll numbers of deer and they will find tools that will accomplish this goal! if this means putting a gun season in the middle of archeery season or allow x-bows ..you bet they will do it! Ar's won't be the answer either they are there so you'll get fustrated and shoot a doe!! Shoot doe people really you wont hurt the herd they reproduce quicly (twins maybe even triplets).

[growalot]

I do my part

[Dave]

I do my part

That's how I do it, after I shoot and gut them I put them on back of my quad and drive them back to camp.

Dave

[Bendog]

I originally thought the $10 DMP application fee was a bad idea, since DEC needs us to be the management tool and could be pricing us out of the woods.....I've since had a change of heart (I prefer to use that phrase than to say I was wrong).....the $10 application fee means those who are getting DMPs are serious about using them....

make sense?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Where I hunt its hard to kill a doe. I would love to fill my doe tags each year but its tough. I can shoot at least 10 little bucks for every doe I have a shot at. I usually let the scrub bucks walk in hopes of shooting a doe. Maybe I should quit hunting by all the buck sign  ;D

HAHAHAHA, wish I had that issue 

[growalot]

Yep I'm still on the safety issue...which isn't top on the talk list...so thought ppl that think a mere 50 yards isn't too close to shoot arrows next to someones home or livestock.

Missouri woman shot in face by nei                                                                                                                                      ST. LOUIS |          Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:56pm EDT         

    (Reuters) - An 80-year-old Missouri  woman enjoying a chocolate doughnut at her kitchen table was hit in the  face by a stray arrow apparently shot by a neighbor honing his archery  skills, police said on Wednesday.

The woman, great-grandmother  Margaret Shofner, calmly pulled the arrow out of her jaw on Tuesday  morning and put it on her table. She did not require hospitalization and  wasn't sure at first what hit her."I  pulled (the arrow) out and laid it on the table. That's when I realized  what it was," Shofner said, telling her story to local television not  long after the Tuesday morning incident."Who  would have thought an arrow was going to come into your house and hit  you," Shofner said. Her face was swollen and bruised but otherwise she  was unharmed.Police in the north  St. Louis suburb of St. John, Missouri, found nearby resident Robert  Joiner, 26, still practicing his bow and arrow shots an hour after the  shooting and was charged with second-degree assault and armed criminal  action, Capt. J.R. Morris of the St. John police said.Police  said Joiner was practicing archery with a compound bow when the arrow  apparently bounced off the hay bale he was shooting at and crashed  through Shofner's window. He was released on $25,000 bail.(Writing by Bruce Olson, editing by Cynthia Johnston)...would like the following.....

[WNYBuckHunter]

Well what you have here is a case of dumbass. The guy was shooting his bow toward a house, which is just plain stupid. All the laws in the world most likely wouldnt have stopped that from happening. The guy was not following basic safety rules to begin with. In Missouri, it is illegal to discharge a bow or firearm within 100 yards of an occupied structure, it is also illegal to knowingly discharge at any building or habitable structure unless doing so in self defense.

[Bendog]

Agreed....if we start molding laws in response to these types of accidents, we'll end up with a 2-mile setback requirement and a lot of other regs that will do nothing to stop incidents that are the direct result of stupidity, recklessness and negligence of the degree that no one could ever have imagined.....

[growalot]

Well see it never said he was shooting in the direction of her house....and said he was near by ...but how far n"near by"? it clearly said...

  arrow  apparently bounced off the hay bale he was shooting at

[growalot]

H Well I could get BOLD print off so I'll finish here

How many of you have had an arrow deflect off a limb ..tree...or target and go in a totally different direction?....a mere 50yrds is just Too damn close to shoot near occupied buildings

[Doc]

Well what you have here is a case of dumbass. The guy was shooting his bow toward a house, which is just plain stupid. All the laws in the world most likely wouldnt have stopped that from happening. The guy was not following basic safety rules to begin with. In Missouri, it is illegal to discharge a bow or firearm within 100 yards of an occupied structure, it is also illegal to knowingly discharge at any building or habitable structure unless doing so in self defense.

Ever wonder why we have laws that forbid shooting across the road, or the current limit of 500 feet from structures, or any number of laws against doing some stupid things. It is because there really are dumbasses out there. I know there are because I've seen them. Do such laws ever stop such stupid acts? ....... perhaps not 100%, but probably it does stop some. At the very least, it gives the law something additional to charge these stupid people with. What the heck, it's pretty stupid for somebody to get all drunked up and go flying down the expressway in the wrong direction. We have laws against all of that, and yet every so often you read about someone doing it. Should we eliminate those laws simply because such an acts are certifiably stupid? I think that just as there was justification for the 500 foot rule, it probably makes sense to at least consider whether exceptions to that law could be a move in the wrong direction, regardless of the intellect of the dumbasses that these laws are trying to control.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Well see it never said he was shooting in the direction of her house....and said he was near by ...but how far n"near by"? it clearly said...

  arrow  apparently bounced off the hay bale he was shooting at

Yeah he probably shot high and it bounced off the top of the haybale, ever see an arrow bounce of of a hay bale any other way? I havent. Even a 100 yard rule didnt stop this one from happening, which is why I dont think a 50 yard rule is going to help any in this type of a case.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Well what you have here is a case of dumbass. The guy was shooting his bow toward a house, which is just plain stupid. All the laws in the world most likely wouldnt have stopped that from happening. The guy was not following basic safety rules to begin with. In Missouri, it is illegal to discharge a bow or firearm within 100 yards of an occupied structure, it is also illegal to knowingly discharge at any building or habitable structure unless doing so in self defense.

Ever wonder why we have laws that forbid shooting across the road, or the current limit of 500 feet from structures, or any number of laws against doing some stupid things. It is because there really are dumbasses out there. I know there are because I've seen them. Do such laws ever stop such stupid acts? ....... perhaps not 100%, but probably it does stop some. At the very least, it gives the law something additional to charge these stupid people with. What the heck, it's pretty stupid for somebody to get all drunked up and go flying down the expressway in the wrong direction. We have laws against all of that, and yet every so often you read about someone doing it. Should we eliminate those laws simply because such an acts are certifiably stupid? I think that just as there was justification for the 500 foot rule, it probably makes sense to at least consider whether exceptions to that law could be a move in the wrong direction, regardless of the intellect of the dumbasses that these laws are trying to control.

Who said anything about eliminating the law? Apparently you missed my point, which is 50 yards or 100 yards, doesnt matter in a case like the one that was posted. MO has a 100 yard law, no distance law stopped this incident from happening.

Its just like the articles that were posted a while back in another thread about some moron shooting arrows into the air in a city neighborhood and people being struck by them. No distance law or even a no discharge law stopped that incident either. It was a case of stupid, and there is no fix for that.

[growalot]

That's right WNYH...no law could stop ignorance but for the life of me I don't under stand how so many men can look at an issue and have complete and udder tunnel vision...but it happens a lot here...not a slam just my observation....

this being a case in point...no it can't stop idiots but when those idiots cause bodily harm to another human they now have a leg to stand on in court for medical bills...loss of livestock or even life....

One more point to this and hey look it up please...but NYS DEC and courts already set a president where a guy was ticketed  and subsequently fined for harassment for making noise on his land while the neighbor bow hunted....at the time I believe he was mowing or cutting wood....what ever...now he may have been trying to disrupt the guys hunt....BUT now what happens when a guy sets up to bow hunt 50yrds off your back deck and you want to mow...play the stereo....have a party....cut wood...target shoot to get ready for gun?...mind you ....ppl doing these things tend to do them after work...right when guys hit the woods...so now you have a president where ppl can be arrested and fined for such things during actually any season for cross bows are in gun season...and some guys hunt with bow during gun...I'm sure no one on this forum is naive enough to think that won't happen....we aren't in a love they nieghbor society any more.....Hunting is 7 days a week....ppl in this state have a right to do as they wish on there lands with in the law...... hunting has no right to even come close to being able to take that away....changing to 50 yrds is what that will do to many ppl in this state...mark my words

[wdswtr]

There are some things missing from.  If an arrow glanced off a hay bale and by the time it reached the house how did it penetrate the house?  Unless the lady was sitting there in front of an open door or window.  Pulling an arrow out of your jaw and only having a bruise and some swelling.  How do you pull an arrow out of your jaw and not have a hole in it?  It doesnt say she pulled it out of her mouth.  Im confused on this whole story.  She must have stole the guys arrow and beat herself across the jaw with it and called the cops on the dude for revenge of sorts lol. This just makes no sense to me.

[WNYBuckHunter]

That's right WNYH...no law could stop ignorance but for the life of me I don't under stand how so many men can look at an issue and have complete and udder tunnel vision...but it happens a lot here...not a slam just my observation....

this being a case in point...no it can't stop idiots but when those idiots cause bodily harm to another human they now have a leg to stand on in court for medical bills...loss of livestock or even life....

One more point to this and hey look it up please...but NYS DEC and courts already set a president where a guy was ticketed  and subsequently fined for harassment for making noise on his land while the neighbor bow hunted....at the time I believe he was mowing or cutting wood....what ever...now he may have been trying to disrupt the guys hunt....BUT now what happens when a guy sets up to bow hunt 50yrds off your back deck and you want to mow...play the stereo....have a party....cut wood...target shoot to get ready for gun?...mind you ....ppl doing these things tend to do them after work...right when guys hit the woods...so now you have a president where ppl can be arrested and fined for such things during actually any season for cross bows are in gun season...and some guys hunt with bow during gun...I'm sure no one on this forum is naive enough to think that won't happen....we aren't in a love they nieghbor society any more.....Hunting is 7 days a week....ppl in this state have a right to do as they wish on there lands with in the law...... hunting has no right to even come close to being able to take that away....changing to 50 yrds is what that will do to many ppl in this state...mark my words

I hope you dont think Im slamming you in any way, Im not. Im just saying that no law prevented that incident. As far as you getting ticketed for hunter harassment, the judge has to see intent of the party to harass the hunter. Say for example, the guy mowing his lawn is flipping the hunter off, or something like that, then its harassment. Someone mowing their lawn or cutting wood while you are in a tree near their property is not considered harassment on its own.

[sits in trees]

hey ya know our congress is pretty much gonna decide on our fates and wether or not we have a financial existance, any social security and if we have to pay for our medical expenses with our homes and property when we are 65, and i sit here and seem more concerned about what the heck they are going to do with my hunting season!!!

[Doc]

Apparently you missed my point, which is 50 yards or 100 yards, doesnt matter in a case like the one that was posted. MO has a 100 yard law, no distance law stopped this incident from happening.

I think I replied to that comment when I said: "Do such laws ever stop such stupid acts? ....... perhaps not 100%, but probably it does stop some. At the very least, it gives the law something additional to charge these stupid people with."

[G-Man]

so the guy was already in violation of the law to begin with 100 yard rule ini missouri. i still dont see a problem with 50 yards. most normal people will be shooting away from buildiings. you cannot not let others do something because of a few idiots. using that reasoning no one would be allowed a gun either because it might accidentally go off.....

[Doc]

Probably it is because of the rural area that I live in, but I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would actually want to even hunt within 500 feet of someone else's house even with (and perhaps especially with) a bow. Personally, I would feel like I was infringing on other people's private space if I was skulking around their house that close. I had occasion to actually measure off 500' from my house once and was surprised just how close that actually is. It is close enough to hear conversations. It is close enough to watch cars come and go in the driveway. It is close enough to have someone's dog barking in your face all during your hunt. It is close enough to have any number of normal private activities that would just trash my hunt. I know hunting land is getting tough to come by, but are people really serious about wanting to hunt in other people's yards? I cannot imagine a situation that would supply a worse quality of hunt.

[WNYBuckHunter]

You wouldnt be hunting in anyones yard unless you had permission, and I can think of one spot, on my fathers land, in a rural area, where I could put a stand that I cant now. Its just under 300 feet away from one house, and 400 away from another. It would be a great spot in an inside corner, where you cant even see either house, and deer walk within 20 yards of it almost every day. It has a perfect tree in it that I used in the past for my practice stand. The old neighbor didnt care, but then sold his house and this new guy gave me crap about it even though I dont shoot or in any way face his yard or home when I was shooting targets. Hes just one of those people that like to try and throw his weight around. Now Im not saying I would hunt in that spot, but it would be nice to get my practice stand back.