Can one of you more left leaning posters explain your thinking to me

[ApexerER]

First, Lets keep this civil. I am really interested in hearing a different way of thinking. I would say I am pretty conservative. My views to me, are just common sense. 

Border: Not only do I want a strong border in the country, I want to deport anyone that doesn't belong here. We have millions and millions of illegals in our public schools, speaking different languages, putting huge burdens on school system budgets and teachers. Their parents aren't paying any taxes that go into the schools budget. We are paying out billions in health care, keeping people detained and in jail. I know not all but many of the illegals are criminal and many have been found guilty, been deported and come right back so it must not be very hard to come back in. There is an enormous financial burden to having these people in our country, state, cities and towns. Money that can be better spent on our citizens. I welcome anyone that wants to come to this country the correct way. I could go on and on about this subject but my point is clear. No we want to pay for illegals health care and college and be a sanctuary state? All that will do is bring more here. NY alone spent almost 10 billion dollars of a 171 billion dollar budget. So 6 percent of our budget went to people that shouldn't even be here!

Tax and Health Care: I know this is two subjects but I am going to put it into 1 because it is all about money. To me, this is simple. The more left leaning the person you vote for is, the more you are going to pay in taxes/healthcare. Unless of course you don't pay taxes and your health care is free. We live in on of the very few states that have a income tax, property tax and a sales tax and all 3 of those taxes are amongst the highest in the country. We don't have amazing infrastructure. Where is all this money going? To me it is going to all the people that don't work and don't pay taxes. Why should a person that doesn't work get food stamps per week that are higher than my grocery bill? I don't want anyone starving to death but why should they eat steak when I am eating hamburger? I know one person that was briefly on food stamps when she got out of a bad situation and she couldn't believe how much she was given. Why in this case do we still hear about kids that don't eat unless they get free lunches at school? All that food stamp money and they can't make lunch for their kids? Why does a person that gets section 8 housing, social security, food stamps and whatever other programs they are entitled to get more in help then the average person makes? How does that make sense? I am tired of hearing health care is a right for all....why is it a right that I have to pay almost as much as my mortgage for my family health plan through my employer and the person that never made anything of themselves, may or may not have a job sometimes gets it for nothing? 

Laws: I am tired of laws that don't make sense and only hurt law abiding citizens. The SAFE act was made because of Newtown. Which was horrible and I can't imagine being one of the parents that lost their children. But what in the safe act would have stopped that from happening? A mother purchased a firearm knowing she had a whacko kid and he stole that gun. Plain and simple. Now we are talking about making laws because of one Limo crash (again horrible) when there was already a bunch of broken laws. This new law is only going to hurt business that rely on buses, trucks, limo's etc. Why is making laws for the sake of making laws a good thing? All these laws hurt business, mandating a minimum wage, family leave act etc. 

LGBT: Its 2019, I don't care if you are black, white, green, yellow, gay, straight, transgender or whatever. By why are we remaking the rules, making everyone uncomfortable for the sake of 1. Over and over again. My daughter is 13 and middle school. There is one transgender kid in the whole school. He is a boy that I guess identifies as a girl, makes the teachers call him Rose etc. Now this boy is allowed to use the same locker room and bathroom as my daughter making her and the rest of the student population uncomfortable. How has this become acceptable? 

Drug Legalization: I have mixed feelings about this. Mostly because I know you can get marijuana just about anywhere these days. But my question to Cuomo would be, I speak to my 13 year old daughter almost daily about the importance of staying away from drugs. Now we are making one legal. One that I have been saying stay away from. How many more kids are there going to be that do nothing but get high and play video games with no other care in the world. No drive. 

Budget: This one is quite simple to me. At some point we are going to have to pay the piper. How can we continue spending trillions more than we take in? I have literally had left leaning people tell me the deficit doesn't matter....What? How can anyone go on spending more than they take in forever? It isn't sustainable IMO

There are many more things I could go on about but I am sick of typing and getting aggravated going over everything in my head IMO is wrong. 

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by ApexerER

[The_Real_TCIII]

I’m pretty far right but there is just no way to deport 15mm illegals. Create a path to citizenship that includes 500 hours of community service. Create 15mm taxpayers. And lock down the borders!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Culvercreek hunt club]

10 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

I’m pretty far right but there is just no way to deport 15mm illegals. Create a path to citizenship that includes 500 hours of community service. Create 15mm taxpayers. And lock down the borders!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You create a path to citizenship for those that have value. If you are here and do not have a marketable trade, do not have means to support yourself or family, have a criminal record- you get the boot. It's unrealistic to say we are going to take them out all  at a one time. You remove them as they present themselves or the authorities come across them. The easiest way is to have them remove themselves. You do that buy removing any incentive  to stay. No  health care, no social programs, no more sanctuary.  The big nut is we need to take the anchor baby issue head on and as soon as RBG takes a dive  and we get another SCOTUS appointment this should happen. 

I am sick of having illegals present themselves for work, we run the paperwork and find it is not consistent with the Fed Records and they are illegal and have either forged ID or another person's ID and the Government doesn't want to do a damn thing. I could have them sitting right in front of me or one of our managers and no agency  wants to act. 

[Marion]

I’m pretty far right but there is just no way to deport 15mm illegals. Create a path to citizenship that includes 500 hours of community service. Create 15mm taxpayers. And lock down the borders!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

500 hours you kidding me that's it? I say mandatory military service if you want to be here otherwise bye bye

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[The_Real_TCIII]

500 hours you kidding me that's it? I say mandatory military service if you want to be here otherwise bye bye

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Sounds good to me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[ApexerER]

No opinion from anyone that disagrees with me? Why, it is obvious from some of you posts that you have a differing opinion....

[ApexerER]

17 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

You create a path to citizenship for those that have value. If you are here and do not have a marketable trade, do not have means to support yourself or family, have a criminal record- you get the boot. It's unrealistic to say we are going to take them out all  at a one time. You remove them as they present themselves or the authorities come across them. The easiest way is to have them remove themselves. You do that buy removing any incentive  to stay. No  health care, no social programs, no more sanctuary.  The big nut is we need to take the anchor baby issue head on and as soon as RBG takes a dive  and we get another SCOTUS appointment this should happen. 

I am sick of having illegals present themselves for work, we run the paperwork and find it is not consistent with the Fed Records and they are illegal and have either forged ID or another person's ID and the Government doesn't want to do a damn thing. I could have them sitting right in front of me or one of our managers and no agency  wants to act. 

I agree with everything other than what you say about a path to citizen ship. Why should they get a path when there are plenty of people waiting to do it the correct way. You want citizen ship. Get in line!

You forgot about schooling as well. No more school for non citizens. Why should public schools that use our tax dollars have to pay for this burden. 

And don't even think about coming here and waiving the Mexican or whatever other flag. If you want to do that stay and your country and fix that one!

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by ApexerER

[Culvercreek hunt club]

20 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

I agree with everything other than what you say about a path to citizen ship. Why should they get a path when there are plenty of people waiting to do it the correct way. You want citizen ship. Get in line!

You forgot about schooling as well. No more school for non citizens. Why should public schools that use our tax dollars have to pay for this burden. 

And don't even think about coming here and waiving the Mexican or whatever other flag. If you want to do that stay and your country and fix that one!

 

I can see that. I don't take exception to any of what you said. I was just saying that if they had a marketable skill there may be a case for keeping them here. I know there are a lot of industries that are very short handed with good employees. 

[The_Field_Ager]

On 1/17/2019 at 3:11 PM, The_Real_TCIII said:

I’m pretty far right but there is just no way to deport 15mm illegals. 

Sure there is. It will just take time. Years of work for a new agency dedicated to this work. Many jobs will be created

[The_Real_TCIII]

47 minutes ago, The_Field_Ager said:

Sure there is. It will just take time. Years of work for a new agency dedicated to this work. Many jobs will be created

Sounds expensive

[diplomat019]

46 minutes ago, The_Field_Ager said:

Sure there is. It will just take time. Years of work for a new agency dedicated to this work. Many jobs will be created

NO MORE GOVERNMENT!!!   

[The_Real_TCIII]

Let everyone opposed to deportation sponsor an illegal for citizenship. $1,500 fee. $22.5BB into the economy just like that. 

[The_Field_Ager]

1 hour ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

Sounds expensive

In fact the agency would pay for itself over time if you look at the national expenditure maps for illegals state by state. NY is nearly 10 billion annually by itself. And folks wonder why we can't get our roads and bridges repaired...

[Hunter007]

On 1/17/2019 at 3:11 PM, The_Real_TCIII said:

I’m pretty far right but there is just no way to deport 15mm illegals. Create a path to citizenship that includes 500 hours of community service. Create 15mm taxpayers. And lock down the borders!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

15 million you say , you could just give those that are here already and don't break any other laws temporarily work  Visa's that need to be renewed ever few years .

And not have them voting or using are social system .

Like pretty much every other country does. 

They don't   let illegals  be citizens that's just crazy .

If they want that they have to go back and apply the right way .

Or what's the point .

[Rattler]

There are 22 million illegal aliens in the country now according to current estimates.  If we can't deport them, lets make them produce to stay here, but not in the regular economy and not as free citizens.

Arrest them and sentence them to confinement in a facility that provides 3 hots and a cot, provided they are willing to ride a stationary bike or walk a treadmill that is hooked up to an electric generating device.  These places would embody the leftist's dream of a true "green energy" producer, while solving the problem of illegals in the US.  Millions of illegals could generate a heck of a lot of energy.  Plus they prove they are willing to work and get healthy side effects from doing it.

If they refuse to do the work, they get deported.  When their sentence is up, they are put in line for legal immigration and can remain in the US while they wait, as long as they agree to continue to produce electricity at the facility.  It's a purely voluntary system too.  They decide what will be their fate.

Sound crazy?  Maybe some new thinking outside the box is what's needed.  Surely none of the current ideas are solving the problem.

 

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, Rattler said:

There are 22 million illegal aliens in the country now according to current estimates.  If we can't deport them, lets make them produce to stay here, but not in the regular economy and not as free citizens.

Arrest them and sentence them to confinement in a facility that provides 3 hots and a cot, provided they are willing to ride a stationary bike or walk a treadmill that is hooked up to an electric generating device.  These places would embody the leftist's dream of a true "green energy" producer, while solving the problem of illegals in the US.  Millions of illegals could generate a heck of a lot of energy.  Plus they prove they are willing to work and get healthy side effects from doing it.

If they refuse to do the work, they get deported.  When their sentence is up, they are put in line for legal immigration and can remain in the US while they wait, as long as they agree to continue to produce electricity at the facility.  It's a purely voluntary system too.  They decide what will be their fate.

Sound crazy?  Maybe some new thinking outside the box is what's needed.  Surely none of the current ideas are solving the problem.

 

I will add to that ,  put illegals on the wall and make them build it for free  for a work Visa no citizenship ever unless they go back and do it the legal way. 

[Hunter007]

More people equals more pollution more global warming I thought dems wanted to save the environment?  This country is already overpopulated as it is .

[DirtTime]

On 1/18/2019 at 8:46 AM, ApexerER said:

No opinion from anyone that disagrees with me? Why, it is obvious from some of you posts that you have a differing opinion....

I want to start by stating, to many, this is an outdoor site, so most don't bother with the banter that goes on in the "Political Section". They would rather talk about, well, being outdoors- hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, and everything related. It's not that they don't vote, or have strong feelings about certain matters, they come here to talk about the outdoors, and primarily hunting and fishing, not politics. Yes, there are some forums about beer, food, using a smoker, etc. .But they are fun, and enjoyable to people, because those forums allow people to be themselves on a human level, to bond, to maybe make a friend. Not like reading about conspiracy theories in every other post. I hope you understand my meaning here.

 

As for people agreeing with you. Most of us do. If I don't agree with something, I state it. I don't agree with the wall! It will do nothing to stop illegal immigrants, it will do nothing to stop drugs from entering this country, it won't stop the vile acts being committed by US citizens already here and that were born here, and it certainly won't do shit to counter-act the scum already here. Just a waste of tax payer money, just like giving free loaders welfare.

 

Not sure what  answers you are looking for, but I gave an answer. This is how I feel. Like I said, I agree with on all you stated in your first post for this thread.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Rob...
spelling

[Adkhunter1590]

I’m ready to just say dump the government. Let’s go back to the Stone Age. Everyone for themselves. Survival of the fittest. Good luck to all, let the ultimate purge begin....

[greensider]

2 hours ago, Adkhunter1590 said:

I’m ready to just say dump the government. Let’s go back to the Stone Age. Everyone for themselves. Survival of the fittest. Good luck to all, let the ultimate purge begin....

Im with your idea all the way

[Culvercreek hunt club]

11 hours ago, Rob... said:

I don't agree with the wall! It will do nothing to stop illegal immigrants, it will do nothing to stop drugs from entering this country, 

 

The statistics that I have seen for the areas with a wall on the border do not support you comment. Just the opposite actually.  Have you seen any of the videos of vast areas of the border that literally have NO barrier at all. I agree that you are never going to stop it all and until you remove the incentive to come here illegally it won't stop. BUT, there has to be something done to secure the areas where they can just stroll across. There needs to be some resistance, some barrier.  

[diplomat019]

6 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I agree that you are never going to stop it all and until you remove the incentive to come here illegally it won't stop. 

Bingo!   So we should invest our time and money into tackling this issue instead of the wall.  Whats the point of the wall if we still incentivize illegal immigration?  People will still get here.  Just by a different route.  They’re not stupid. It’s such a complex issue that it’s a way bigger fix than a wall.  

[ApexerER]

12 hours ago, Rob... said:

I want to start by stating, to many, this is an outdoor site, so most don't bother with the banter that goes on in the "Political Section". They would rather talk about, well, being outdoors- hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, and everything related. It's not that they don't vote, or have strong feelings about certain matters, they come here to talk about the outdoors, and primarily hunting and fishing, not politics. Yes, there are some forums about beer, food, using a smoker, etc. .But they are fun, and enjoyable to people, because those forums allow people to be themselves on a human level, to bond, to maybe make a friend. Not like reading about conspiracy theories in every other post. I hope you understand my meaning here.

 

As for people agreeing with you. Most of us do. If I don't agree with something, I state it. I don't agree with the wall! It will do nothing to stop illegal immigrants, it will do nothing to stop drugs from entering this country, it won't stop the vile acts being committed by US citizens already here and that were born here, and it certainly won't do shit to counter-act the scum already here. Just a waste of tax payer money, just like giving free loaders welfare.

 

Not sure what  answers you are looking for, but I gave an answer. This is how I feel. Like I said, I agree with on all you stated in your first post for this thread.

I understand that some people are against the wall for the very reason you state. But I don't understand how a wall (with advanced detection features) can't at least stop a good portion of the issue. Where there is a will there is a way, but if that way is much harder and your chances of getting caught are increased to 90% that will, will would have to be extreme. 

As to what I was looking for: I am truly curious to have an intelligent conversation with a person that is pro illegal immigration. If you watch the news there seems to be a lot of them and I just don't understand that thought process. 

[virgil]

As to what I was looking for: I am truly curious to have an intelligent conversation with a person that is pro illegal immigration. If you watch the news there seems to be a lot of them and I just don't understand that thought process. 

 

Is anyone actually 'pro-illegal immigration'?  I've only heard people accuse others of this, but have never actually heard anyone say that illegal immigration is good.  Maybe it's happened and I missed it.

[ApexerER]

31 minutes ago, virgil said:

As to what I was looking for: I am truly curious to have an intelligent conversation with a person that is pro illegal immigration. If you watch the news there seems to be a lot of them and I just don't understand that thought process. 

 

Is anyone actually 'pro-illegal immigration'?  I've only heard people accuse others of this, but have never actually heard anyone say that illegal immigration is good.  Maybe it's happened and I missed it.

You watch the news and you would think 85% of the country is pro illegal immigration.