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4' or so it's likely not pitched that much to be below the frost line. if there ledge or rock under the pipe close to the frost depth it makes it a lot worse.  this isn't what i do, but i'd install the flex boot. also similar to a what's used around a foundation or alaskan garage slab i'd dig things up a little just to bury a ground frost insulation board over the area of the pipe. it's on the north side of your house and a bit shaded which doesn't help you and is what it is.  to double up on frost protection you might be able to put a slightly raised flower garden there. plant shade tolerant flowers and plants then when fall arrives lay down a bunch of straw that will just break down and can be worked into the soil. you'll want to make sure the line isn't busted though before you do anything. could be adding to it being wet unless it's just a low spot.


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1 hour ago, First-light said:

Question to you guys. I included a picture here. So I get the frost heave in the back of the cabin by the bathroom. I would imagine I put the french drain about 18" down 2' off the back of the cabin? This sound correct? Also I dig trench, lay fabric soil separator, put in some stone then pipe covered in the soil separator sock back fill with more stone. Tuck both ends of fabric and back fill some more. Does the top of the trench stay gravel or do you put a layer of topsoil back in? 

cabin.png

Just wondering if it is a better bet to dig some sort of ditch just above those 5 trees and below the tree line, opposite the tilled farmland, about where the length of dirt/grass is running left to right, and channel water away from your cabin. Hard to tell about the lay of your land from an overhead shot.

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what type of soil is there? clay/glacial till?   How does that property slope?


"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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29 minutes ago, Merlot said:

Just wondering if it is a better bet to dig some sort of ditch just above those 5 trees and below the tree line, opposite the tilled farmland, about where the length of dirt/grass is running left to right, and channel water away from your cabin. Hard to tell about the lay of your land from an overhead shot.

There is a ditch there. It is always wet. 


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1 hour ago, dbHunterNY said:

4' or so it's likely not pitched that much to be below the frost line. if there ledge or rock under the pipe close to the frost depth it makes it a lot worse.  this isn't what i do, but i'd install the flex boot. also similar to a what's used around a foundation or alaskan garage slab i'd dig things up a little just to bury a ground frost insulation board over the area of the pipe. it's on the north side of your house and a bit shaded which doesn't help you and is what it is.  to double up on frost protection you might be able to put a slightly raised flower garden there. plant shade tolerant flowers and plants then when fall arrives lay down a bunch of straw that will just break down and can be worked into the soil. you'll want to make sure the line isn't busted though before you do anything. could be adding to it being wet unless it's just a low spot.

So the line came up about 3/4 inch last year and 1.5 inches this year. I'm hoping the line didn't break. The area of the frost heave is an area where the water drains towards. Property wasn't graded properly when the cabin was built 11 years ago. I like the idea of the insulated board over the pipe.  


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8 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

what type of soil is there? clay/glacial till?   How does that property slope?

slope towards the road slightly left. Not sure on soil. I believe clay. When the place was built the builder asked for some of the top soil and said underneath is clay. 


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13 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

what type of soil is there? clay/glacial till?   How does that property slope?

back of cabinDSC00022.thumb.JPG.3da915ddc8c78d7bd76c7f07d4825197.JPG


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back of cabinDSC00022.thumb.JPG.3da915ddc8c78d7bd76c7f07d4825197.JPG

A French drain should work if daylighted down slope. I would NOT backfill Roth stone around the sewer pipe. If the soil is clay you create a pool of water. It will fill and not drain out well. Since is is being impacted by frost you run the risk of that dinner CJ freezing and possibly make the problem worse. I’d be he water is coming down the hill from behind I would try to intercept it as quickly as possible. Since it falls off towards road and left I would go behind the trees and down the left side towards the road.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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11 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:


A French drain should work if daylighted down slope. I would NOT backfill Roth stone around the sewer pipe. If the soil is clay you create a pool of water. It will fill and not drain out well. Since is is being impacted by frost you run the risk of that dinner CJ freezing and possibly make the problem worse. I’d be he water is coming down the hill from behind I would try to intercept it as quickly as possible. Since it falls off towards road and left I would go behind the trees and down the left side towards the road.

So don't put the drain by the house? Get it up behind trees in that ditch and daylight it out on leftside towards road? 


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Legends Lodge, "Where Legends are born"

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So don't put the drain by the house? Get it up behind trees in that ditch and daylight it out on leftside towards road? 

If that is where the water is coming from. I am a firm believer in getting the water as soon as you can
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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i agree with culver. it's a good idea to head off the water best you can before it gets there. if it's a low spot it might still get there being you've got clay and if over the pipe is gravel or something and not topped with clay.

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My 2 cents. 

1.  If you dig the trench and it is good solid till or clay and there is no migration of water in the subsoil (dealing with the majority as runoff) I would use the open french drain with perforated ADS slotted coil pipe in the fabric sock. Mound the stone a bit to act as a dam in freeze situation and it will slow the surface run off. Just 2-3" hump.

2.  If there is migration of water in the sub soil  and surface run off then I would still use an open trench design but would wrap the stone in fabric to stop migration of the soil fines into the stone and eventually clogging the stone over time This can use the ADS coil pipe with NO fabric sock.

3. It there is no surface run off and it is all sub soil migration of water then you can use a closed trench. stone wrapped in fabric with ADS slotted coil pipe with NO fabric sock

closed trench.JPG

open trench with fabric.JPG

open trench no fabric.JPG

Edited by Culvercreek hunt club
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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10 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

My 2 cents. 

1.  If you dig the trench and it is good solid till or clay and there is no migration of water in the subsoil (dealing with the majority as runoff) I would use the open french drain with perforated ADS slotted coil pipe in the fabric sock. Mound the stone a bit to act as a dam in freeze situation and it will slow the surface run off. Just 2-3" hump.

2.  If there is migration of water in the sub soil  and surface run off then I would still use an open trench design but would wrap the stone in fabric to stop migration of the soil fines into the stone and eventually clogging the stone over time This can use the ADS coil pipe with NO fabric sock.

3. It there is no surface run off and it is all sub soil migration of water then you can use a closed trench. stone wrapped in fabric with ADS slotted coil pipe with NO fabric sock

closed trench.JPG

open trench with fabric.JPG

open trench no fabric.JPG

Got it and thanks a whole bunch!


"We Feed 'em"

"He Breeds 'em"

Legends Lodge, "Where Legends are born"

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