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Is It Possible That Spring Hunters Are Missing More Turkeys At Under 35 Yards With The Combination Of A Triple Extra Full Choke Tube And New TSS And Longbeard ER Turkey Ammo??

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1 hour ago, Belo said:

i will agree that "slam dunk" is a bit much. I might not call hunting with that setup unethical, but it's also not super responsible. You really owe it to yourself to know how your gun shoots. You spend all the time getting ready and getting up at 4am, but not enough time to shoot a few shells downrange? 

I honestly think the safer distance for most loads and setups is 20 and under. just my .02. 

 

1 hour ago, mookyj said:

Would have to honestly disagree as you wouldn't have a clue as to how it patterned. in many cases, different loads shift the point of aim and or blow out the patterns. This is true even in same model gun and barrel and even further same make and model choke. Seen the same model guns and with the same model, chokes shoot vastly different with the same shells. Micromachining tool marks are what is not 100% the same. Many cases results are similar, but how would you know? To knowingly go after them without confirming as to how it patterns or where your zero is, is much like buying a new gun, and boresighting it at 10 pm the night before opening day. Your quarry deserves more respect than that.

We are talking 30 yards here. With #5 lead shot....:rolleyes: Not talking buckshot patterns, a couple hundred pellets shot at the head/neck of a turkey from 30 steps away through a full choke.

Nothing wrong with being ethical and patterning a gun, but if this is a difficult shot, you may want to rethink things a little...

Edited by Uncle Nicky
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You did say you are hunting turkey this year with a 410 hand gun did you not ?
You didn't here me say anything negative about that notice .
But you and a few others  seem to go out of your way for some reason at me  when you don't even know me .
Chill out .
 
 
 

There’s no comparison to someone who is trying something different and has put a lot of time and money into testing to know the limitations and someone going out without a clue.

Have a good day pard. Please continue to entertain us with your nonsense.


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24 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:


No choke is probably incorrect, unless the fella you’re talking about screwed the choke out of his gun. Most barrels that are not threaded for a choke tube are indeed choked barrels. I have a 20ga H&R single shot with a modified chocked barrel that is very capable of killing turkeys at 30yds and has done it before. That being said I wouldn’t t push it much past that because the pattern does fall of quickly.


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it was his statement "i need to get it threaded, it has no choke". I'd post the pic of the pattern, but it was shared privately and it's a moot point. 


"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching, even when the wrong thing is legal"

-Aldo Leopold 

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4 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:


There’s no comparison to someone who is trying something different and has put a lot of time and money into testing to know the limitations and someone going out without a clue.

Have a good day pard. Please continue to entertain us with your nonsense.


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And how do we know  that ? if I said  to you  I was using a 410 hand gun for Turkey    that I patterned , guaranteed there  would be a negative  reaction  from you And others on here .

 

 

 

 

 

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And how do we know  that ? if I said  to you  I was using a 410 hand gun for Turkey    that I patterned , guaranteed there  would be a negative  reaction  from you And others on here .
 
 
 
 
 

When I first posted about it I stated that I was using handloads and that with testing im confident out to 7yds. Not really that confusing.

I’m done, have a good day.


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7 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:


When I first posted about it I stated that I was using handloads and that with testing im confident out to 7yds. Not really that confusing.

I’m done, have a good day.


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Just saying if I said that very same thing you and othes would be here criticizing me .

Remember this post I will show you what I mean when I post a idea that I have for deer season next year just to change it up . Watch what happens   I will wait  though.

 

Edited by Storm914

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6 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Just saying if I said that very same thing you and othes would be here criticizing me .

Remember this post I will show you what I mean when I post a idea that I have for deer season next year just to change it up . Watch what happens   I will wait  though.

 

I don't think he's saying theres anything wrong with trying something new, he's just saying that he spent a lot of time and money figuring out what the limitations were of what he was planning on trying. Im sure he would have something to say if someone wanted to try the same thing as him, but decided not to test it out first. Thats what seems to be his main gripe. 

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53 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

 

We are talking 30 yards here. With #5 lead shot....:rolleyes: Not talking buckshot patterns, a couple hundred pellets shot at the head/neck of a turkey from 30 steps away through a full choke.

Nothing wrong with being ethical and patterning a gun, but if this is a difficult shot, you may want to rethink things a little...

not at all, your assumptions are unfounded and opinion based on ignorance, not a factual observation. Actually, a wives tale  If your point of aim is off then all bets are off. Far too many examples of stock patterns that couldn't kill a gobbler at 25 yards much less 30, not to mention pulled a foot to the right or left and just as much high or low.  Rep'd hevi shot for years and their tubes and done plenty of pattern single shot contests to bear witness to your claim as untrue. It is irresponsible and lacking in ethics to promote using a turkey gun without knowing what it does at any distance with a given choke and shell. Nothing difficult about being tremendously dumb about it.

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5 minutes ago, mookyj said:

not at all, your assumptions are unfounded and opinion based on ignorance, not a factual observation. Actually, a wives tale  If your point of aim is off then all bets are off. Far too many examples of stock patterns that couldn't kill a gobbler at 25 yards much less 30, not to mention pulled a foot to the right or left and just as much high or low.  Rep'd hevi shot for years and their tubes and done plenty of pattern single shot contests to bear witness to your claim as untrue. It is irresponsible and lacking in ethics to promote using a turkey gun without knowing what it does at any distance with a given choke and shell. Nothing difficult about being tremendously dumb about it.

WOW.

How did our ancestors ever exterminate turkeys in most parts of the country before we had all this technology and scientists like MookyJ?:rolleyes:

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1 minute ago, Uncle Nicky said:

WOW.

How did our ancestors ever exterminate turkeys in most parts of the country before we had all this technology and scientists like MookyJ?:rolleyes:

easy, they shot them beforehand and knew what their guns did rather than guess like you. you've heard of range day and patterning? Dumb argument, willfully ignorant and willing to argue from an indefensible and less than a noble position


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1 minute ago, mookyj said:

easy, they shot them beforehand and knew what their guns did rather than guess like you. you've heard of range day and patterning? Dumb argument, willfully ignorant and willing to argue from an indefensible and less than a noble position

I don't know about that mooky.  My grandafther killed many turkey back in the 90's and early 2000's with a number 5 shell out to 35 yards. He never patterened his gun and I doubt he ever used anything more than a modified. Now i agree that its a bit irresponsible to not pattern your gun, but it would probably work. 

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I first heard about---: Prairie Storm over at the Old Gobbler site. A few Turkey hunters were happy with them. They pattern well.  My shot opportunity the rest of May will be close as, I am hunting in and near Swamps this Spring. A Gobblers best friend is Skunk Cabbage!  You need to really look for him.

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1 minute ago, mookyj said:

easy, they shot them beforehand and knew what their guns did rather than guess like you. you've heard of range day and patterning? Dumb argument, willfully ignorant and willing to argue from an indefensible and less than a noble position

 

Come on now.  I'm no turkey hunting expert, but my Remington 11/87 has never really been patterned.  I've only used the full choke that was one of the 3 chokes that came with the gun.  Never tried any other choke and never really compared the different turkey loads available.  I buy whatever turkey shells I find in the store.   Guess what?  Any stationary bird I've fired at that was less than 40 yards ended up DEAD!  There may have been a couple of misses at birds that were probably too far off with my open sight gun, but everyone is entitled to a miss.  I surely never missed one because he was too close.  No rocket science involved, yet it has worked for me.

 

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Going from my early expierence from 1990 on, I used 2 3/4" Turkey Loads. I don't remember any patterning until the late 90s. I shifted around between Winchester and Remington Turkey Ammo. 

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19 minutes ago, mookyj said:

easy, they shot them beforehand and knew what their guns did rather than guess like you. you've heard of range day and patterning? Dumb argument, willfully ignorant and willing to argue from an indefensible and less than a noble position

My friend, I met you once in person and know you vaguely from Facebook (where you always make it a point to spout your unsolicited opinion on just about everything & anything). While I may not have written a couple books that nobody bought (like you have), I've spent as much time in the woods as most here. And as usual, you are making a lot of assumptions about me, while having absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Easy to be a keyboard toughguy from a distance, eh Mike?

Both my shotguns I hunt turkeys with are patterened, and worked on by Rob Roberts. I've spent many hours patterning both of them, and as I mentioned before, I rarely miss or cripple turkeys these days; I know my guns' and my limitations. If you can tell me you've never missed or crippled a bird, that would no doubt make you a liar as well as a pompous ass. My original point was, if I had to substitute a high-brass #5 in any of my turkey guns, or any of my shotguns for that matter, it WOULD be a slam dunk shot on a turkey at 30 yards....I know this because I HAVE patterened all my guns, and know their & my limitations. Any gun I buy that can't hold a decent pattern gets sold, why would I keep them?

For anyone new or just starting out, I would strongly suggest knowing your gun and patterning their gun BEFORE heading to the field. And try a #5 high brass also, you just never know when you might need to shoot one.:rofl:

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

My friend, I met you once in person and know you vaguely from Facebook (where you always make it a point to spout your unsolicited opinion on just about everything & anything). While I may not have written a couple books that nobody bought (like you have), I've spent as much time in the woods as most here. And as usual, you are making a lot of assumptions about me, while having absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Easy to be a keyboard toughguy from a distance, eh Mike?

Both my shotguns I hunt turkeys with are patterened, and worked on by Rob Roberts. I've spent many hours patterning both of them, and as I mentioned before, I rarely miss or cripple turkeys these days; I know my guns' and my limitations. If you can tell me you've never missed or crippled a bird, that would no doubt make you a liar as well as a pompous ass. My original point was, if I had to substitute a high-brass #5 in any of my turkey guns, or any of my shotguns for that matter, it WOULD be a slam dunk shot on a turkey at 30 yards....I know this because I HAVE patterened all my guns, and know their & my limitations. Any gun I buy that can't hold a decent pattern gets sold, why would I keep them?

For anyone new or just starting out, I would strongly suggest knowing your gun and patterning their gun BEFORE heading to the field. And try a #5 high brass also, you just never know when you might need to shoot one.:rofl:

 

 

Let's be frank. I have no problem repeating anything I wrote in person and will gladly repeat in front of you. My contact info is easily found on the web, if you need it, no problem. I make it my rule to only type what I would say in person. those that know me, will attest to that. My guess a transference of accusations based on your own actions and intentions.

As I laid out why I honestly disagreed with you, you are now backtracking while trying to disparage my other activities. Please tell the peanut gallery how many books I have sold.... I'll wait for your informed response. It's more than a few 1000 so guess higher. Made money on it.

I'll also wait to see you dig up where I have stated never a missing or crippled bird. I have a well-told blog post on two boxes of underloaded Winchesters (i have the letter from the factory) that were the source of several gut-wrenching experiences with losing a bird. I have had a couple of pulled shots and murdered a few trees in that effort. Again, pointless for you to accuse me of such denial, as it is out there of what misfortune's I have had.

As you appear inclined to disparage me with utter bullshit, it is clear you don't read my blog otherwise you would have not written such a foolish remarks. I am well enough versed in the mechanics of patterning as part of the professional side job I had conducting seminars and rep'ing Hevi-Shot. I left Hevi-shot when they began pushing their 75+ yard campaign as I disagreed in principle as I conducted seminars on how far is too far and indifference to their marketing ...

I have gone on by your assertions and what I opinion as bad advice you originally spouted. All the patterning experience you claim, you left out of your original statements so it would appear you are engaging in click bait. Dumb, but that 's what it appears to be. In your effort to insult me as a book author or as a liar you expose to the group your intentions to just stir the pot and be the elephant in the room. 

For you to be now expressing the virtue's of patterning says much about your original intentions.  And yes I'll gladly repeat this to you in person at a time and place of convenience.

"My original point was, if I had to substitute a high-brass #5 in any of my turkey guns, or any of my shotguns for that matter, it WOULD be a slam dunk shot on a turkey at 30 yards."  Is still reckless and foolish advice in my opinion. So unless you patterned it to know you would be the actual "pompous ass"


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Let's be frank. I have no problem repeating anything I wrote in person and will gladly repeat in front of you. My contact info is easily found on the web, if you need it, no problem. I make it my rule to only type what I would say in person. those that know me, will attest to that. My guess a transference of accusations based on your own actions and intentions.
As I laid out why I honestly disagreed with you, you are now backtracking while trying to disparage my other activities. Please tell the peanut gallery how many books I have sold.... I'll wait for your informed response. It's more than a few 1000 so guess higher. Made money on it.
I'll also wait to see you dig up where I have stated never a missing or crippled bird. I have a well-told blog post on two boxes of underloaded Winchesters (i have the letter from the factory) that were the source of several gut-wrenching experiences with losing a bird. I have had a couple of pulled shots and murdered a few trees in that effort. Again, pointless for you to accuse me of such denial, as it is out there of what misfortune's I have had.
As you appear inclined to disparage me with utter bullshit, it is clear you don't read my blog otherwise you would have not written such a foolish remarks. I am well enough versed in the mechanics of patterning as part of the professional side job I had conducting seminars and rep'ing Hevi-Shot. I left Hevi-shot when they began pushing their 75+ yard campaign as I disagreed in principle as I conducted seminars on how far is too far and indifference to their marketing ...
I have gone on by your assertions and what I opinion as bad advice you originally spouted. All the patterning experience you claim, you left out of your original statements so it would appear you are engaging in click bait. Dumb, but that 's what it appears to be. In your effort to insult me as a book author or as a liar you expose to the group your intentions to just stir the pot and be the elephant in the room. 
For you to be now expressing the virtue's of patterning says much about your original intentions.  And yes I'll gladly repeat this to you in person at a time and place of convenience.
"My original point was, if I had to substitute a high-brass #5 in any of my turkey guns, or any of my shotguns for that matter, it WOULD be a slam dunk shot on a turkey at 30 yards."  Is still reckless and foolish advice in my opinion. So unless you patterned it to know you would be the actual "pompous ass"

I’ve never written a book or worked for an ammo company but I’ve shot a lot of turkey loads through a lot of shotguns and I will say out of the 100’s of gun, shell, choke combos I’ve shot I’ve never had one that wouldn’t kill a turkey with a mod or tighter choke and a high brass load of number 5’s at 30yds. No not all were dead centered on point of aim but all would have killed a turkey.

Yes you should always pattern before going into the woods and it’s something I would never do but If I had to I would do so with a very high level of confidence. I also would call it a slam dunk. A slam dunk is not 100% but it’s damn close.


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First time I went water fowl hunting with a buddy was the first time I had ever patterned a shotgun. Most of my "patterning" was based on how it looked int he snow after I shot a rabbit. I've shot an awful lot of small game growing up in that 35 yard and under window but those very valuable shells weren't wasted on paper...lol. I guess it's always a possibility to have a bad gun or a bad ammo combination (saw it with a buddy with 3.5" shells in his Mossy 835, shot a donut pattern but was fine with 3"). I think sometimes we do need a new book about how as hunters we can sure make the simple complex. 


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2 hours ago, Uncle Nicky said:

WOW.

How did our ancestors ever exterminate turkeys in most parts of the country before we had all this technology and scientists like MookyJ?:rolleyes:

 

2 hours ago, mookyj said:

easy, they shot them beforehand and knew what their guns did rather than guess like you. you've heard of range day and patterning? Dumb argument, willfully ignorant and willing to argue from an indefensible and less than a noble position

patterning a gun never required tech nicky. And I bet most of our ancestors weren't shooting out to 30 yards and if they were it's because their kids were hungry and the potential for a wounded bird a lot less important. 

I don't fully agree with mookyj's way of responding to your post, but I do think it's hard to argue that understanding your gear and equipment is a bad thing and just walking into the woods without understanding your setup, gear and geez even how the gun will kick and feel is not a good idea to promote. 

Edited by Belo

"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching, even when the wrong thing is legal"

-Aldo Leopold 

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2 hours ago, steve863 said:

 

Come on now.  I'm no turkey hunting expert, but my Remington 11/87 has never really been patterned.  I've only used the full choke that was one of the 3 chokes that came with the gun.  Never tried any other choke and never really compared the different turkey loads available.  I buy whatever turkey shells I find in the store.   Guess what?  Any stationary bird I've fired at that was less than 40 yards ended up DEAD!  There may have been a couple of misses at birds that were probably too far off with my open sight gun, but everyone is entitled to a miss.  I surely never missed one because he was too close.  No rocket science involved, yet it has worked for me.

 

technically ballistics are very much a form of rocket science lol

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"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching, even when the wrong thing is legal"

-Aldo Leopold 

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Sad to Say-- But, I think too many Spring Hunters see videos like this below this post and decide to take that 65--- 70+ yard shot on a Gobbler. Old Gene Nunnery would be spinning in his Grave if he knew what was going on!

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I have patterned quite a few shotshells over the years, but I have never  made a career of it...

 

In my humble amount of experience,  any load I have ever patterned  printed in basically the same spot  as long as the sights were the same....Shotgun velocities are not varied enough to produce drastic differences in POA  at average ranges....I have sighted in and centered patterns many times at 20 yards with light field or target loads and then confirmed them at 40 yards with heavy 3" loads, and have never seen a significant change in POA..  The difference between  high vel loads and target loads is only about 200 - 300 FPS, and that doesn't mean much with  shot energy or trajectory within normal shooting range...

I have never played around with the super long range ( 50 yards plus) stuff, nor do I intend to....

I don't intend to get into a pissing contest, but that has been my experience....I am no expert, but I have been patterning guns for close to 50 years..

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14 minutes ago, ODYSSEUS said:

 

Sad...That's not what the game is about...

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