Accuracy Issues

[DanD]

I have shot Aerolite Powerbelts and 2 pellets of 777 from my CVA Accura since I bought it with good accuracy and success on deer. In sighting it in this year, I couldn't get it to group consistently with the same load (from the same package) as prior years. Checked scope mounts and cleaned everything with no change in accuracy. Bought some Barnes TMZ sabots to test, and have had much better results with the same propellant. Do I just chalk this up to one of life's great mysteries and move on? Struggling to walk away from this without having a concrete answer as my muzzleloader (and the muzzleloader only area) is my go to for the first few weeks of the regular season.

[Jeremy K]

When I first got into muzzleloading I used pellets ,I could hardly even set the round for a second shot without cleaning . You said you cleaned everything so is it possible that the propellant has picked up some moisture somehow? It really doesn't make sense that gun stopped shooting the same recipe that it liked before. Those accura are a sweet set up . I have 2 cva myself that shoot so nice.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

How old are the powerbelts? is is possible the gas check on the back is getting hard or more stiff with age (cue pygmy). Eerratic gas blow by on that seal I would think could effect accuracy. I was thinking it could have been issues with the 777 until you said the Barnes shot well. (personally i would bet the Barnes will perform better for you in the long run, so you may just want to accept fate. 

[DanD]

4 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

How old are the powerbelts? is is possible the gas check on the back is getting hard or more stiff with age (cue pygmy). Eerratic gas blow by on that seal I would think could effect accuracy. I was thinking it could have been issues with the 777 until you said the Barnes shot well. (personally i would bet the Barnes will perform better for you in the long run, so you may just want to accept fate. 

Didn't think of the potential gas check issue with older Powerbelts, but they are maybe 2 years old at most. 777 on the other hand is probably 5-6 years old. Starting to question if it was the 777 as I started taking only pellets from the lower level somewhere along the line in my quest for accuracy. Might just need to buy another box of pellets and re-shoot to satisfy my need for an answer. 

[Buckmaster7600]

Do yourself a huge favor and switch over to blackhorn209 powder. Pellets are absolute garbage for a litany of reasons, dirty, inconsistent, very sensitive to moisture among others. You did good going to Barnes bullets they are a much better bullet than the powerbelts in my opinion. The only issue I have with the Barnes bullets is I’m not a huge fan of their sabots so I use the bullets and put them in Harvestor sabots with very good accuracy.

Just for my curiosity how bad were the groups with the powerbelts?


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[DanD]

20 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Do yourself a huge favor and switch over to blackhorn209 powder. Pellets are absolute garbage for a litany of reasons, dirty, inconsistent, very sensitive to moisture among others. You did good going to Barnes bullets they are a much better bullet than the powerbelts in my opinion. The only issue I have with the Barnes bullets is I’m not a huge fan of their sabots so I use the bullets and put them in Harvestor sabots with very good accuracy.

Just for my curiosity how bad were the groups with the powerbelts?


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in prior years, I could do 1-2" groups at 100 with the PowerBelts. This year, I struggled to do 2" at 50 yards...

I've read about the blackhorn209. I'd need to get the breachplug, and learn my way around measuring the powder. Do you use speedloaders so you don't have to measure when you're in the field?

[Jeremy K]

I highly recommend the switch . I prefill a few tubes and keep them in my pocket,  it's as easy as taking a tube and dumping it in and pushing the round to the bottom. Never any cleaning between shots. You'll feel the difference in your shoulder the first time you shoot it. 

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, DanD said:

in prior years, I could do 1-2" groups at 100 with the PowerBelts. This year, I struggled to do 2" at 50 yards...

I've read about the blackhorn209. I'd need to get the breachplug, and learn my way around measuring the powder. Do you use speedloaders so you don't have to measure when you're in the field?

I have only used 209, but its pretty easy to use.  Yes speedloaders with the measured powder and then another with bullets and primer.  Pygmy was able to kill two deer that came in together using it last season.

[Robhuntandfish]

I also shoot 777 pellets and powerbelts.  If you do figure out would love to know in case it happens to me .  I have thought about changing but I just can't cause at 100 the gun is dead bull every time. Prob my most accurate gun at 100 all the time. But..... After each shot it drops 2", then 4" until it is cleaned. But with muzzle if the first is dead on and second is 2" low I am good with that. 

But haven't had the problem you mentioned with the same load. 

[Jeremy K]

Here's my set up ,mine stays locked at 100g ,drop a round in the tube and pour in the powder. Stick it in the rubber holder ,rinse and repeat. I switched to a federal 209 shot primer with the Blackhorn also. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I like these and I still use with the 777 pellets until mine are used up. Bullet is inserted into the narrow end with the tip of the bullet facing in. pellets or powder in the tube and primer in the little holder on the top. Thumb flip the top and dump in charge. place narrow end inline with the muzzle and rod right through the tube to push the bullet in. pop off the old primer and Grab the cover and slide in a new primer. ready to fire again. I have tried a few different styles and like this one best. (they make 50 and 45 caliber ones. (I think 45 is green)

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Culvercreek hunt club

[virgil]

I have those things and never knew that the ramrod gets pushed right through the tube.  Good to know.  Thanks.

[Buckmaster7600]

in prior years, I could do 1-2" groups at 100 with the PowerBelts. This year, I struggled to do 2" at 50 yards...
I've read about the blackhorn209. I'd need to get the breachplug, and learn my way around measuring the powder. Do you use speedloaders so you don't have to measure when you're in the field?

Yes you need a new breech plug, measuring is simple as it gets, you can weigh every charge or just measure by volume.

I use speed loaders with powder and bullets.


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[Billdogge]

Barnes and Blackhorn 209

[sbuff]

I'd re check mounts and bases,barrel lugs etc.

Where was the powder stored?

[DanD]

On 10/22/2019 at 10:29 AM, DanD said:

I have shot Aerolite Powerbelts and 2 pellets of 777 from my CVA Accura since I bought it with good accuracy and success on deer. In sighting it in this year, I couldn't get it to group consistently with the same load (from the same package) as prior years. Checked scope mounts and cleaned everything with no change in accuracy. Bought some Barnes TMZ sabots to test, and have had much better results with the same propellant. Do I just chalk this up to one of life's great mysteries and move on? Struggling to walk away from this without having a concrete answer as my muzzleloader (and the muzzleloader only area) is my go to for the first few weeks of the regular season.

I shot my CVA again with the same 777 and Barnes TMZ 250 grain sabots. 4 shots at 75 yards were ~1" apart. More than enough for the dense hillsides I hunt. I did order the Blackhorn 209 breach plug, tool, and propellant. I highly doubt it will come soon enough for me to re-sight in before the season, but I'm comfortable with what I have for the 2019 season.

[Jeremy K]

9 minutes ago, DanD said:

I shot my CVA again with the same 777 and Barnes TMZ 250 grain sabots. 4 shots at 75 yards were ~1" apart. More than enough for the dense hillsides I hunt. I did order the Blackhorn 209 breach plug, tool, and propellant. I highly doubt it will come soon enough for me to re-sight in before the season, but I'm comfortable with what I have for the 2019 season.

Looking forward to your reaction after the change. 

[The_Real_TCIII]

So if I want to shoot Blackhorn in my Encore I need a new breech plug?


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[sbuff]

Not for an encore you dont 

[sbuff]

Not for an encore you dont 

[Jeremy K]

48 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

So if I want to shoot Blackhorn in my Encore I need a new breech plug?


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The Blackhorn breech plug reduces the length of the flame channel ,other guns might be short enough to get a thorough burn.

[The_Real_TCIII]

It’s an old encore if that matters, like when they first came out


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[Jeremy K]

58 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

So if I want to shoot Blackhorn in my Encore I need a new breech plug?


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I lifted this picture from the modern muzzleloader site to show how they shorten the flame channel for maximum ignition . That's what makes the BHbreech plug different, if your flame channel is short it will work.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Jeremy K

[Jeremy K]

2 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

It’s an old encore if that matters, like when they first came out


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Maybe just check that it can handle the excess breech pressure so you're not wearing the gun after you shoot it.

[dbHunterNY]

4 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

It’s an old encore if that matters, like when they first came out


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i contacted them just over 10 years ago about my TC ProHunter with the quarter turn with a threaded plug (using tool not tool-less). they just said to use a 1/8" drill bit to make sure the primer hole is completely clear of build up as well as use a torch tip cleaner or something similar to make sure the flash hole at the end is clear. sent me photos.

Edited October 29, 2019 by dbHunterNY