fixed vs mechanical broadheads

[wolc123]

hueyjazz (from harvest thread): 

"Second year of hunting with crossbow but first year with success.  I really put two and two together this year and figured from my first year mistakes when I could believe I missed a buck at thirty yards.   I didn't realize was how different fix broad heads shot than the same weight field points.  Practicing during summer I fire the crossbow sighted in with field point but with using the fix broad head." 

What I was keeping on a half dollar at fifty yards with a field point was close to missing target.  I went to mechanicals and made a point of making sure they were on target.  Success was in the making."

 

What type of fixed broad heads were you using last year ?   What crossbow ?  What mechanical broad heads on this year's buck ?

I had a similar experience (on targets not deer thankfully) with Allen fixed 125 grain broad heads that I got at Walmart.  They hit about 12" away from field points at 30 yards.   125 grain fixed Muzzy's flew identical to the field points however, and Wasps were also very close, in my 300 fps Barnett Recruit.  I have had 100 % success on deer with 125 grain mechanicals (5 for 5)  which have always flew identical to my field tips.

I bought (6) "Blackout" o-ring style 125 grain broad heads, on clearance from Bass Pro Shops around 10 years ago.   I destroyed one of them on a target with my old compound bow, to verify that it flew the same as a field point (which it did).  I killed a buck with the compound with the second one that same year.  That was the last deer I shot my vertical bow at.  He "jumped" the string, resulting in a strike to the neck (thru the juggular), which fortunately killed him very quickly and within 40 yards of taking the arrow.  

I used the other (4) of those new mechanicals to kill (4) bucks with my crossbow, all of them dropping dead within 40 yards of taking the bolts from ranges of 15 - 59 yards.   Unfortunately, I was now out of mechanical broad heads.  The price of new ones seemed unreasonable, so I swapped some parts and sharpened some blades to make one good one from the (4) used ones.  I also tested some of my old fixed heads, determining that the Muzzy's and Wasps were suitable replacements.   

Since Culver posted the non-biased Navy-base study (clearly showed that a crossbow with a mechanical broad head offered the best chance of a recovered deer), I was reluctant to hunt with the fixed broad heads.   I used my single remaining (rebuilt/sharpened) mechanical to kill my buck this season and I was not able to locate the bolt that made that kill.

This year, my Recruit required considerable vertical adjustment on the target range before hunting, probably to make up for some string/cable stretch or limb relaxation after (5) seasons of use.   In anticipation of some worsening next year, I picked up (3) new NAP 100 grain mechanical broad heads.  Next year I will sight in with 100 grain field tips and trust that the NAP mechanicals will fly identical.        

  

 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by wolc123

[Lawdwaz]

4 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

hueyjazz (from harvest thread): 

"Second year of hunting with crossbow but first year with success.  I really put two and two together this year and figured from my first year mistakes when I could believe I missed a buck at thirty yards.   I didn't realize was how different fix broad heads shot than the same weight field points.  Practicing during summer I fire the crossbow sighted in with field point but with using the fix broad head." 

What I was keeping on a half dollar at fifty yards with a field point was close to missing target.  I went to mechanicals and made a point of making sure they were on target.  Success was in the making."

 

What type of fixed broad heads were you using last year ?   What crossbow ?  What mechanical broad heads on this year's buck ?

I had a similar experience (on targets not deer thankfully) with Allen fixed 125 grain broad heads that I got at Walmart.  They hit about 12" away from field points at 30 yards.   125 grain fixed Muzzy's flew identical to the field points however, and Wasps were also very close, in my 300 fps Barnett Recruit.  I have had 100 % success on deer with 125 grain mechanicals (5 for 5)  which have always flew identical to my field tips.

I bought (6) "Blackout" o-ring style 125 grain broad heads, on clearance from Bass Pro Shops around 10 years ago.   I destroyed one of them on a target with my old compound bow, to verify that it flew the same as a field point (which it did).  I killed a buck with the compound with the second one that same year.  That was the last deer I shot my vertical bow at.  He "jumped" the string, resulting in a strike to the neck (thru the juggular), which fortunately killed him very quickly and within 40 yards of taking the arrow.  

I used the other (4) of those new mechanicals to kill (4) bucks with my crossbow, all of them dropping dead within 40 yards of taking the bolts from ranges of 15 - 59 yards.   Unfortunately, I was now out of mechanical broad heads.  The price of new ones seemed unreasonable, so I swapped some parts and sharpened some blades to make one good one from the (4) used ones.  I also tested some of my old fixed heads, determining that the Muzzy's and Wasps were suitable replacements.   

Since Culver posted the non-biased Navy-base study (clearly showed that a crossbow with a mechanical broad head offered the best chance of a recovered deer), I was reluctant to hunt with the fixed broad heads.   I used my single remaining (rebuilt/sharpened) mechanical to kill my buck this season and I was not able to locate the bolt that made that kill.

This year, my Recruit required considerable vertical adjustment on the target range before hunting, probably to make up for some string/cable stretch or limb relaxation after (5) seasons of use.   In anticipation of some worsening next year, I picked up (3) new NAP 100 grain mechanical broad heads.  Next year I will sight in with 100 grain field tips and trust that the NAP mechanicals will fly identical.        

  

 

 

Have you ever been approached by Random House Publishing?

 

[Jeremy K]

If a compound shoots a broadhead different then a field point ,your tune is most likely off . Is there room for adjustments on crossguns? 

[wolc123]

36 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

If a compound shoots a broadhead different then a field point ,your tune is most likely off . Is there room for adjustments on crossguns? 

I never tried the comparison with my compound, which was well-tuned.  Crossbows have no "tuning" that I am aware of.  I think, in the case of the Allen fixed broad heads, it was a weight issue.  I suspect that they were a lot heavier than 125 grains, since they hit muck lower than the 125 grain field points.   Possibly the most likely foreign manufacturer had a problem with metric conversion, or did not include the weight of the blades.   

That is why I am interested to hear what brand Huey used.

Edited December 29, 2019 by wolc123

[nyslowhand]

Only adjustment on Xbows for arrow/BH wgt or type is in the scope. Just need to readjust zero at whatever yardage the scope &/or Xbow mfger suggests. JMO, not a lot different than adjusting sight/pins for arrow or BH variation on a compound bow.

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by nyslowhand

[nyslowhand]

1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

 Next year I will sight in with 100 grain field tips and trust that the NAP mechanicals will fly identical.        

I saw about a 1" variation in (30yrd) zeroing from FPs to NAP Spitfires. Of course, might vary with different Xbow specs. 

[suburbanfarmer]

1 hour ago, nyslowhand said:

Only adjustment on Xbows for arrow/BH wgt or type is in the scope. Just need to readjust zero at whatever yardage the scope &/or Xbow mfger suggests. JMO, not a lot different than adjusting sight/pins for arrow or BH variation on a compound bow.

 

Cam timing and A2A length needs to be in tune as well. Most importantly how one cocks the crossbow makes a difference between shots.

If one pulls harder on right hand vs left then the center or nock point changes in xbow.

[wolc123]

5 hours ago, suburbanfarmer said:

Cam timing and A2A length needs to be in tune as well. Most importantly how one cocks the crossbow makes a difference between shots.

If one pulls harder on right hand vs left then the center or nock point changes in xbow.

That is not something I have heard of before.    In the excitement after killing what was probably my heaviest buck ever, with my crossbow back in 2017, I lost the Barnett rope-pulley cocking device, that came with my 150 pound draw Recruit.  For the rest of that season (while hunting for antlerless deer), I struggled without it, but it was tough on my fingers.  I ended up making a couple of "draw-handles", using steel hooks, hinge pins, chain and duct tape.  These actually work better than the factory rope-pulley, allowing for a much faster draw.   

Edited December 29, 2019 by wolc123

[Buckmaster7600]

.  Next year I will sight in with 100 grain field tips and trust that the NAP mechanicals will fly identical.        

  

 

 

That’s disgusting to me, “trusting” it will be the same? Give me a break man, it’s 10$ or less.

Crossbows can absolutely be tuned via the cables.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hueyjazz]

This is Hueyjazz and you hit the nail on the head Wolc.  It was an Allen 125 grain fixed broadheads on a Jackal crossbow with Allen bolts.  And I would say the difference was 10"  low from the field point of same weight at 30 yards.   First year with crossbow I missed a buck at 25 yards.  By miss I mean I got hair and fat  on what I thought was going to be a well placed lung shot.  Ended up being a low glancing belly shot. 

I've killed a lot of deer with shotgun.  I'm a patience, meat hunter,  one shot, one kill kind of guy.  If I can't get the shot I want, on the deer I want, they walk.   The fact I missed at this distance after much practice with field points really POed me and I just couldn't out what I did wrong.  Buck fever left me in my teens.  Now I just a mild sweat watching deer while I wait for shot.  

For year two, I shot the same broadheads into my target.   Real low  At first I figure I must of whacked the scope unknowingly for the bolts to be this far off.  I switched back to field points which turned out to be dead on.  

I talked to my buddy whom also does crossbow and he only used mechanicals and has had good success. I got some 125 grain Swhackers.  They came with their own practice tips.  I re-sighted in scope and upgraded my bolts to Carbon Express.  I was staying on a half dollar at 30 yards and a orange at 50 yards with either tip.  (Destroyed target)  At same time I also moved to a CenterPoint Whisper 380 that I put a decent scope on.  The Jackal was fairly accurate but sounded like a bat hitting a wet sack when it went off.  Plus it was bulky in ladder  tree stand.

I'm very happy with present setup.  I own my own land and know it well.  I starting to like the early crossbow season better than gun.  But as long as there's an ethical deer in freezer each season, I'm good

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[wolc123]

2 hours ago, hueyjazz said:

This is Hueyjazz and you hit the nail on the head Wolc.  It was an Allen 125 grain fixed broadheads on a Jackal crossbow with Allen bolts.  And I would say the difference was 10"  low from the field point of same weight at 30 yards.   First year with crossbow I missed a buck at 25 yards.  By miss I mean I got hair and fat  on what I thought was going to be a well placed lung shot.  Ended up being a low glancing belly shot. 

I've killed a lot of deer with shotgun.  I'm a patience, meat hunter,  one shot, one kill kind of guy.  If I can't get the shot I want, on the deer I want, they walk.   The fact I missed at this distance after much practice with field points really POed me and I just couldn't out what I did wrong.  Buck fever left me in my teens.  Now I just a mild sweat watching deer while I wait for shot.  

For year two, I shot the same broadheads into my target.   Real low  At first I figure I must of whacked the scope unknowingly for the bolts to be this far off.  I switched back to field points which turned out to be dead on.  

I talked to my buddy whom also does crossbow and he only used mechanicals and has had good success. I got some 125 grain Swhackers.  They came with their own practice tips.  I re-sighted in scope and upgraded my bolts to Carbon Express.  I was staying on a half dollar at 30 yards and a orange at 50 yards with either tip.  (Destroyed target)  At same time I also moved to a CenterPoint Whisper 380 that I put a decent scope on.  The Jackal was fairly accurate but sounded like a bat hitting a wet sack when it went off.  Plus it was bulky in ladder  tree stand.

I'm very happy with present setup.  I own my own land and know it well.  I starting to like the early crossbow season better than gun.  But as long as there's an ethical deer in freezer each season, I'm good

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I am not at all surprised that it was Allen fixed broadheads.   Like I mentioned earlier, my guess is that they weigh a lot more than 125 grains.  I should probably throw one of them on a postal scale to verify that.   I will definitely make sure that my new 100 grain NAPS weigh the same as 100 grain field points but I will be damned if I will use a $ 12 mechanical broad head on a target (they did not come with a practice point).  I always try and keep my cost of venison at less than $ 1.00 a pound.   

If and when I ever do upgrade my Barnett Recruit, I will likely go with a Centerpoint.   I have not heard anything bad about them (other than the trigger and sight).  For a 2-week season (and I don't ever expect that to change), I am very reluctant to part with any extra cash however, and the Recruit has got it done for me every time so far.   I am hoping that changing to 100 grain broad heads next year will flatten it out a bit compared to the 125 grain that I had been using.   When it was new, I could use the top dot out to 40 yards, but last season I needed the top one at 20, the middle at 30, and the bottom at 40. 

Before I put a new string/cables on it, I will buy a Centerpoint, and just keep the Barnett Recruit as a spare.   That will not happen until the Barnett fails me on a deer, or breaks however.        

[suburbanfarmer]

14 hours ago, wolc123 said:

That is not something I have heard of before.    In the excitement after killing what was probably my heaviest buck ever, with my crossbow back in 2017, I lost the Barnett rope-pulley cocking device, that came with my 150 pound draw Recruit.  For the rest of that season (while hunting for antlerless deer), I struggled without it, but it was tough on my fingers.  I ended up making a couple of "draw-handles", using steel hooks, hinge pins, chain and duct tape.  These actually work better than the factory rope-pulley, allowing for a much faster draw.   

Crossbownation forum is detailed on how to do it, depending on make and model. The cocking rope sure helps but the cam timing and a2a is also needed to be super accurate. There are ppl like the field archer who is known for it.

[hueyjazz]

My first year I didn't know any better and unlike me, I didn't study up.  I figured there would be slight differences between bolt, field points and broad head but nothing like what I saw when I re-examined.  I was aware that uneven cocking would have an adverse affect and I've been anal about consistency for repeatability

I now surmise the Allen stuff is crap and have replaced it all.  I've often experience people trying to spend their way into better shooting rather than put the time in to acquire skills.  Well, that's the wrong order in my book and not the only sport this occurs in.  But I do believe in this case crap equipment took down adequate skill.  And I'm sure the more I get into crossbow I will itch  to get better equipment.  However, at this point the equipment is better than me.  This deer thought so too

[wolc123]

2 hours ago, hueyjazz said:

My first year I didn't know any better and unlike me, I didn't study up.  I figured there would be slight differences between bolt, field points and broad head but nothing like what I saw when I re-examined.  I was aware that uneven cocking would have an adverse affect and I've been anal about consistency for repeatability

I now surmise the Allen stuff is crap and have replaced it all.  I've often experience people trying to spend their way into better shooting rather than put the time in to acquire skills.  Well, that's the wrong order in my book and not the only sport this occurs in.  But I do believe in this case crap equipment took down adequate skill.  And I'm sure the more I get into crossbow I will itch  to get better equipment.  However, at this point the equipment is better than me.  This deer thought so too

It is possible to go overboard on the spending, practice, studying, etc., and many are guilty of that (I certainly was at one time).  Hopefully, Next season I will not regret not taking a practice shot with my new 100 grain NAP mechanical broad heads, rather than trusting that they will fly the same as field tips that I will have verified to have weighed the same.  If that does happen, at least Buckmaster will be able to say "I told you so".   I really would like to maintain my 100% success rate with my crossbow, but I am not willing to spend $12 more dollars to help make sure of it.   I can think of a many better uses for that "extra" cash.         

[stubborn1VT]

If you can afford some dental floss, use it to tie the blades closed.  It won't last forever, but you will be able to see where your broadheads are actually hitting.  You can also use a retired broadhead and super glue the blades shut. 

$12 is pretty cheap to make sure you don't wound an animal though.  Seems like willful ignorance, more than just being financially challenged.  After your experience with Allen products, wouldn't you try to do your homework?