Steve D

Contest Shut Down By Antis

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 Locals react to Hancock Fire Department cancelling coyote hunt           

After intense backlash and a petition acquiring more than 20,000 signatures against the event, the Hancock Volunteer Fire Department's second Annual Coyote Hunting Tournament has been cancelled.      https://wbng.com/2019/12/31/207689/

 

Shut down Hancock NY Fire Department’s Coyote Hunting Tournament Fundraiser https://www.change.org/p/hancock-volunteer-fire-department-shut-down-hancock-ny-fire-department-s-coyote-hunting-tournament-fundraiser

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Those are the same people that will complain when their cats/ dogs start coming up missing from coyotes getting them . No clue ....

Edited by rob-c
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I hope every small cat and dog gets eaten by yotes in their town. And also boo to the FD for laying down and bowing out. 

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Switching gears to habitat improvements!

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I'm sure we could get 50,000 for support

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Switching gears to habitat improvements!

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This is just another reminder, that there are many out there right now. That would love nothing more, than to do away with hunting as we know it.

Together we stand. Divided we fall.

 

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3 hours ago, Bolt action said:

Interestingly there are only app. 1,000 residents in Hancock.. yet they have 20,000 signatures. 

I was thinking the same thing.  Hancock is a small town.  Wish it was possible to get a better law passed to protect hunters and our rights since we have become a major minority in this country.

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I don't have the details at my fingertips, but I believe the contest was still on, but it's was being handled by a different group.  Hancock FD got pressure from the mayor to get out of it.  The contest itself was still on though.

Edited by Rattler
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I'm sure we could get 50,000 for support

It really pisses me off that antis can rally
like that and we can’t/won’t/don’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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I find a duck's opinion of me is very much influenced by whether or not I have bread

-Mitch Hedberg

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The mayor killed it off after the signatures and anti-campaign. FD was not expecting that to happen. FD was upset with mayor.

Here's the kicker...same said mayor was on FB groups less than 60 days prior asking hunting-specific groups how they could increase hunting-related tourism in their small town/immediate area.

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1 minute ago, phade said:

The mayor killed it off after the signatures and anti-campaign. FD was not expecting that to happen. FD was upset with mayor.

Here's the kicker...same said mayor was on FB groups less than 60 days prior asking hunting-specific groups how they could increase hunting-related tourism in their small town/immediate area.

 

Maybe if the Catskill region got rid of antler restrictions and started giving out some doe permits he'd get more hunter tourism in this area.  Right now there isn't much incentive to hunt there.  Nothing to do with the issue of this thread, but just answering this stupid mayor's question here.

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, steve863 said:

 

Maybe if the Catskill region got rid of antler restrictions and started giving out some doe permits he'd get more hunter tourism in this area.  Right now there isn't much incentive to hunt there.  Nothing to do with the issue of this thread, but just answering this stupid mayor's question here.

 

 

 

I think that's exactly the point - the main cause of this is the mayor who seems like a poor leader. Not the antis, not the FD, not the hunter, but the mayor. 

Bad leader.

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7 minutes ago, left field said:

I don't know much about coyote hunting but aren't these contests controversial even within the hunting community? 

nope

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7 minutes ago, left field said:

I don't know much about coyote hunting but aren't these contests controversial even within the hunting community? 

Some hunters are not fans of any hunting "contest". My personal view is... When prizes, be it money or merchandise, are introduced into hunting it tends to bring out the worst in some hunters. Some of whom will have no problem pushing the envelope of hunting regulations and ethics to win one of those prizes, or establish themselves as "the winner". I have no problem with a celebrated day where hunters get together for a city, county or state wide group hunt, but making it a contest has never set well with me.

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Joe Servello
New York Antler Outdoors
http://www.nyantler-outdoors.com

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30 minutes ago, nyantler said:

Some hunters are not fans of any hunting "contest". My personal view is... When prizes, be it money or merchandise, are introduced into hunting it tends to bring out the worst in some hunters. Some of whom will have no problem pushing the envelope of hunting regulations and ethics to win one of those prizes, or establish themselves as "the winner". I have no problem with a celebrated day where hunters get together for a city, county or state wide group hunt, but making it a contest has never set well with me.

I think there may be many hunters that agree with this. I do.

As a new hunter I spend a lot of time reading trying to catch up and certainly have fallen hard for the ethics and science of hunting, the idea of fair chase, the private connection to the woods, even the flowery language of the philosophers - "kill to hunt, not hunt to kill". However, I've never understood why that goes out the door when it comes to coyotes or other predators. "Kill to hunt" becomes "kill them all" in certain groups.

Based on some light reading,  the science of how efficacious predator control is remains very much up in the air. And yes, there is controversy in the hunting community, mostly due to the perception.

Mountain Journal contacted several widely respected experts on hunting, all of whom have spent their lives killing animals for food. One of them is Montanan Jim Posewitz, a member of the Montana Outdoor Hall of Fame and founder of Orion—The Hunter's Institute, who wrote a book titled Beyond Fair Chase that for years has been distributed to students young and old who enroll in state-sponsored hunter safety courses. He is also an authority not only on the hunting values of Theodore Roosevelt but in interpreting the North American Model.
 
Here is what’s poignant: Posewitz and others identify several legally permitted hunting activities in America that, in their determination, grossly fail to pass the rule of fair chase and ethical standards laid out in the North American Model. Those contradictions are giving hunting a bad name, they say, resulting in it losing its appeal and credibility among the overwhelming majority of Americans who do not hunt.
....
Few experts believe the trend line will ever be significantly reversed. Most agree that, if hunters refuse to take heed, hunting faces a reckoning.  A major challenge is holding the line on existing hunter numbers. Hunting arguably enjoys a disproportionate amount of political clout in Congress but that clout is concentrated in a demographic that is mostly white, male, gray haired and fading. Maintaining its influence, people like Posewitz say, means that hunting must be perceived as a virtuous, defensible activity.
 
“Those of us who value hunting don’t need PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) and the Humane Society to give hunting a black eye,” Posewitz told Mountain Journal.  “We’re doing that all by ourselves, against ourselves, with the proliferation of self-promoting videos on Youtube and selfies of people posing with dead animals on Facebook and other forms of social media. We’ve become our own worst enemy.”

While I'm generally adverse to soft language - people in my world die, they don't pass - a pickup truck filled with dead coyotes on facebook doesn't help anyone. 

Off to the gym ... yell at me later.

Edited by left field

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One of the school FFA's back in Illinois would have an annual "Pest Control Contest". Local businesses would donate to the fundraiser, and would pay kids who removed pests. There were even prices for different vermin, may 10 cents for a starling, 25 cents for rats etc. I don't think that would fly anymore, though they were still doing it as late as 2005, that was the last year I remember hearing about it. 

However, I certainly agree that it's not a good look to be making the taking of an animal look like a game. It certainly doesn't do anything to improve the image of hunters in a non-hunting world.

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Coyotes are simply Pests that NEED to be controlled.... Having a Contest encourages hunters who might have packed up for the season to get out there on a few Cold February Days and help!

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1 hour ago, left field said:
Mountain Journal contacted several widely respected experts on hunting, all of whom have spent their lives killing animals for food. One of them is Montanan Jim Posewitz, a member of the Montana Outdoor Hall of Fame and founder of Orion—The Hunter's Institute, who wrote a book titled Beyond Fair Chase that for years has been distributed to students young and old who enroll in state-sponsored hunter safety courses. He is also an authority not only on the hunting values of Theodore Roosevelt but in interpreting the North American Model.
 
Here is what’s poignant: Posewitz and others identify several legally permitted hunting activities in America that, in their determination, grossly fail to pass the rule of fair chase and ethical standards laid out in the North American Model. Those contradictions are giving hunting a bad name, they say, resulting in it losing its appeal and credibility among the overwhelming majority of Americans who do not hunt.
....
Few experts believe the trend line will ever be significantly reversed. Most agree that, if hunters refuse to take heed, hunting faces a reckoning.  A major challenge is holding the line on existing hunter numbers. Hunting arguably enjoys a disproportionate amount of political clout in Congress but that clout is concentrated in a demographic that is mostly white, male, gray haired and fading. Maintaining its influence, people like Posewitz say, means that hunting must be perceived as a virtuous, defensible activity.
 
“Those of us who value hunting don’t need PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) and the Humane Society to give hunting a black eye,” Posewitz told Mountain Journal.  “We’re doing that all by ourselves, against ourselves, with the proliferation of self-promoting videos on Youtube and selfies of people posing with dead animals on Facebook and other forms of social media. We’ve become our own worst enemy.”

 

You actually think PETA only hates hunting because of pictures on the internet or coyote hunting contests? Just keep on bending to their whims and see where it gets us.

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13 hours ago, Bolt action said:

Interestingly there are only app. 1,000 residents in Hancock.. yet they have 20,000 signatures. 

there's a good meateater podcast on this subject, mainly about the HSA. Whenever the grizzly, wolf, eagle etc topics come up, it's statisically proven that the New Jersey cat lady is leading the charge (they have to disclose their donation sources). It's not the lady in Montana who just lost her shitzu to a cougar who has the loudest voice unfortunately, and as someone else said it's a ridiculous sentiment that these suburban dwellers who will never worry about a grizzly or cougar can form an opinion and actually fund initiatives that in no way affect them. 

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"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching, even when the wrong thing is legal"

-Aldo Leopold 

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2 hours ago, nyantler said:

Some hunters are not fans of any hunting "contest". My personal view is... When prizes, be it money or merchandise, are introduced into hunting it tends to bring out the worst in some hunters. Some of whom will have no problem pushing the envelope of hunting regulations and ethics to win one of those prizes, or establish themselves as "the winner". I have no problem with a celebrated day where hunters get together for a city, county or state wide group hunt, but making it a contest has never set well with me.

I'm on the fence, but feel the same way. Not so much about fishing derby's which i guess is hypocritical, but there is something about hunting that is pure to me and a contest feels odd. I'd be less on the fence if I knew all the usable pelts were collected. Same goes for the squirrel hunts, as long as they're all eaten I guess I dont mind. 


"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching, even when the wrong thing is legal"

-Aldo Leopold 

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2 hours ago, left field said:

"Kill to hunt" becomes "kill them all" in certain groups.

a good reason or no, it should be noted that hogs and yotes are lumped in together a lot too... And both are invasive non-natives that kill or damage the ecosystem they've invaded. Just throwing that out there

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"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching, even when the wrong thing is legal"

-Aldo Leopold 

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By posting that you determined that I'm bending to the whims of PETA? You figure Posewitz is too?

First off, PETA doesn't subscribe to whims. They are very focussed in their goals and messaging. Hunters less so so. 

There seems to be this weird disconnect between hunting game animals and predators. One is to be honoured, the other (on the extreme) exterminated. I see this often in fishing. Some fly anglers will gently slide a trout back into the water but toss a chub into the air to smack on the water. Sorry, but I don't understand that mindset or agree with it.

Now, killing my livestock, it's probably going to die. I understand and have no issue. Need fur? Go for it. But making a contest out of killing as many coyotes as possible because they're "pests" and may harm or kill livestock and then posting pics of a dead stack is going to be a tough sell for many people. Some hunters included.

There's a fellow who posts coyote videos here. Now he has a legal right to kill those animals and post the video for that matter, but it's always struck me as odd. They're not hunting videos; they're killing videos. Why anyone would want to watch a series of coyotes (or any animal for that matter) beng shot with no context is beyond me. 

I happened to be listening the The Hunting Collective podcast this morning and their interview with Tovar Cerulli, author of The Mindful Carnivore, and he and the host touch on some of these issues. Worth a listen.

 

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31 minutes ago, Belo said:

a good reason or no, it should be noted that hogs and yotes are lumped in together a lot too... And both are invasive non-natives that kill or damage the ecosystem they've invaded. Just throwing that out there

My understanding is that coyotes moved into the NE about 100 years ago after we eradicated the wolves. If you're advocating bringing back wolves, cool. 

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