Reloading Guru's

[Steve D]

I started reloading over the winter and have come up with something that has me stumped. I have a Lyman 49th edition reloading book and thought maybe I would get a newer one so I bought the Lee 2019 edition. I going through the "new book" for comparison and in quite a few instances they don't even mention some of the powders listed in the Lyman Book.  Also some of the powders in the lyman book are not mentioned in the Lee book.

I was going to load some .380 autos for my daughter with a 95 gr. fmj that she uses for plinking. The powder charge listed in the Lyman Book is for Accura#5 powder is 3.0 gr. start and a max of 3.9 grains. I went to the Lee book and their suggested start grains for the same bullet and powder is 4.3 grains with a max of 4.8.

 The Lee book starting charge is more than the max charge in the Lyman book. The minimum OAL in the lee book is 0.945. The OAL in the Lyman book for that bullet is .900.

 How can two loading manuals differ so much with the same powder and bullet. I contacted Lee and they were no help and have reached out to Lyman and they do not reply.

 Anybody have any insight???

[Lawdwaz]

I never loaded for pistol rounds, just shotguns and centerfire rifles.   
 

Those are big differences on the powder charges; 3 grains to almost 5 would have me curious too.   Sit tight, someone will chime in.......

[rachunter]

I went through the same thing with imr4350. I was told on a few reloading forums every data book is different.I looked in my  Hornaday,nosler & sierra books none of them had any data for the powder you mentioned.I had an old & new Hornaday book that where way off with the 4350.Lee seems to give out the higher numbers a well as nosler.

[Shoots100]

Over the years, powder manufacturers have changed their powder recipes, as some were very temp sensitive or burned really dirty.

Now those same powder's either burn slower or faster and can't be used in some of the cartridges they were used in before.

The OAL with any cartridge will effect it's CUP  , so a more compact OAL will result in more pressure, hence the lower powder charge for the shorter cartridge OAL.

Always be on the safe side and start low and work your way up.

If you don't have a chronograph, get one. 

It's good to follow books, but a chronograph will let you know whats what and let you dial in a load.

Also remember that if your loading on the max side in the colder months, you'll be above max during the warmer months and vice versa.

Speed is nice, but an accurate mild load will be easier on your brass and weapons.

Good luck,

SJC

[rob-c]

You did not mention the make of the projectile, myself I shoot Speer , Hornady and Swift  so I buy their individual reloading books . I also shoot hard cast and extreme copper washed bullets and  I use my Lyman book for that. You may want to pick the specific reloader manual for your bullet of choice.  As others have said lots of variances between manuals so  pick one and stick with it . Others have given solid advice already . 

[Steve D]

 I did load 10 rounds of each recipe and they all shot fine but was curious why the big difference between the two.

 If indeed the powder manufacturers change their "recipes" from time to time which I have heard before just how reliable can any manual be.

37 minutes ago, rob-c said:

You did not mention the make of the projectile

Don't know the bullet manufacturer since she bought them in bulk at a gun shot and the two books I have don't reference bullets by manufacturers only type and grain.

[Nytracker]

Did you look at accura load data on line .  As with all published load data start low and work up . Also research the gun of choice . Some guns have quirks. Load preferences .

[Shoots100]

4 hours ago, Steve D said:

 I did load 10 rounds of each recipe and they all shot fine but was curious why the big difference between the two.

 If indeed the powder manufacturers change their "recipes" from time to time which I have heard before just how reliable can any manual be.

Don't know the bullet manufacturer since she bought them in bulk at a gun shot and the two books I have don't reference bullets by manufacturers only type and grain.

Manuals are reloaders cook books.

Manuals and word of mouth was all we had back in the day.

If someone blew up a gun, you knew to drop down a few grains.

The Google is your friend, but too much info can also be a hindrance.

There are so many variables in the load process, manufacturers can only give the info with a use at your own risk understanding.

Like all things in life, technological advancements have improved reloading components over time too.

I remember when there was only a few powder and bullet manufacturers available.

Now you have so many choices, it's just to much sometimes.

 

SJC

 

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Shoots100

[rob-c]

9 hours ago, Steve D said:

Don't know the bullet manufacturer since she bought them in bulk at a gun shot and the two books I have don't reference bullets by manufacturers only type and grain.

Back when I was hunting with my 357 Blackhawk I was working up a starchy load for a 180 grain hard cast bullet. I started low and worked my way up to the max load that was 13.5 grains of 2400. I finally worked up to the 13.5 and shot 6 from my revolver and had sticky extraction from the cylinder, no flat primers observed , but I backed it down to 13.2 for my hunting load. So basically in nut shell  one just has to be conscious of what effects his load has on the case, primer , gun etc. 

[airedale]

One of the first things a new handloader is going to notice is the differences in the data of loading manuals, that is why one of the rules of thumb when it comes to powder charging is to begin on the low end of the scale and incrementally work your way up looking for signs of excessive pressure at all times. I have old manuals from the fifties and sixties that list much hotter loads than what one would see in the newer manuals, back then a lot of folks loaded by feel and pressure signs, they had no way of knowing actual pressures. Today with liability issues and bullet manufacturers having access to accurate equipment to measure pressure I have noticed much more conservative loading data in the newer manuals. There are many more powder choices today also. I have around 20 different manuals from different time periods and while the loads may be close component wise none are listing data exactly the same.

It is all about the many many slight variables, the firearm, the chamber dimensions, cases from different manufacturers, different style bullets and weights, barrels, rifling, throat, primers and powder. 

Most manuals cover and explain these aspects to some degree, read and understand your manuals carefully and stay close to their load parameters and all should go well.

Also a good chronograph can be purchased today very reasonable and it goes a long way in telling the truth showing what kind of performance your handloads actually have.

Al

Edited February 21, 2020 by airedale

[Marion]

One thing you can also do is check the powder manufacturer's website for their recipes as well as the bullet manufacturer for the same.

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[Steve D]

35 minutes ago, airedale said:

Most manuals cover and explain these aspects to some degree, read and understand your manuals carefully and stay close to their load parameters and all should go well.

I have read them and refer back to them often. There is a ton of information in them for sure some of which most will never use. One of the biggest emphasis in both books is powder charging so I have been careful since I don't want my daughter to have problems. I have been loading on the low end and will continue to do so since most of her shooting will be plinking. Her self defense rounds are factory loads around $25.00 for a box of 20 so she won't be shooting  them very often if at all.

 I can see the use for a chronograph and may get one eventually but didn't think I would need to "develop" a load for plinking. She doesn't need "hot" loads for that.

Maybe I am overthinking everything and being over cautious but I would rather be safe than sorry and needed to understand  the difference between powder charges from manual to manual which I thought was significant.

[Steve D]

5 minutes ago, The Jerkman said:

One thing you can also do is check the powder manufacturer's website for their recipes as well as the bullet manufacturer for the same.

I have done some of that and found that most of them only supply data for new combinations they have developed.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

17 hours ago, Steve D said:

The powder charge listed in the Lyman Book is for Accura#5 powder 

Accura or Accurate?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Personally if I see a difference in the two manuals I have I go to the powder manufactures info. 

Accurate #5 for 95gr SIerra  FMJ  was 4.3 start to 4.8 max on their site. 

[Steve D]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Accura or Accurate?

Accurate......The abbreviation in the Lyman Book is AA#5 and in the Lee Book it is Accur#5.

 

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Personally if I see a difference in the two manuals I have I go to the powder manufactures info. 

Accurate #5 for 95gr SIerra  FMJ  was 4.3 start to 4.8 max on their site. 

 Your are correct and I went back to the Lyman book and they say the bullet tested was a Sierra .95 gr. fmj but their book shows starting grains  3.0 to a max of 3.9. So my question remains why the difference and what do you go by if not using Sierra Bullets??

 The Lee book does not specify a bullet by name but does give the same powder charge range as the accurate website shows.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 hours ago, Steve D said:

Accurate......The abbreviation in the Lyman Book is AA#5 and in the Lee Book it is Accur#5.

 

 Your are correct and I went back to the Lyman book and they say the bullet tested was a Sierra .95 gr. fmj but their book shows starting grains  3.0 to a max of 3.9. So my question remains why the difference and what do you go by if not using Sierra Bullets??

 The Lee book does not specify a bullet by name but does give the same powder charge range as the accurate website shows.

I look at the weight and then construction. If you work up the load from the starting on up and are using any manufacturer FMJ I wouldn't be concerned.  BUT, if you change a single component in the recipe (bullet manufacturer or primer and so on) You start over at the starting load. Not knowing what the manuals are using for age of data I would work on the powder manufacture's information. 

[Steve D]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Not knowing what the manuals are using for age of data I would work on the powder manufacture's information. 

After your suggestion I researched  three of the manufactures data and came to the conclusion that it would be more reliable to use their data and to just use the manuals for a guide or starting point. As I stated before I am just trying to get a load  that is safe for her to shoot and not have problems with the gun.

 I did find a nice site for anyone that uses Hodgdon Powder:

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

Edited February 21, 2020 by Steve D

[TLR]

On 2/20/2020 at 5:48 PM, Shoots100 said:

 

Also remember that if your loading on the max side in the colder months, you'll be above max during the warmer months and vice versa

Good luck,

SJC

Not if your using H4350! ITS temp insensitive same velocities @85 ddegrees or 15,degrees x