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DEC Proposes Potential Future "Holiday" Deer Hunt


CapDistPatriot

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This thread is all over. People see deer late, people don't see deer late. People think the herd will be decimated; others think they'll be just fine. Same with snowmobiles vs hunting economic impact and their voice.

Our deer will be fine in our area; plenty of food, not enough access, and a few days in frigid December will result in a few more hunts and punched tags, and hopefully some more memories made.

Relative to going after bucks, it really is a great time to be successful. Low pressure hunts using the bed-food-bed pattern can be more effective than waiting on a pinch point in November. My hunting partner and I took these between the last day of regular and last day of MZ this past season. There's some real world experience as to why I've sent in my support to the DEC.

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Edited by phade
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This thread is all over. People see deer late, people don't see deer late. People think the herd will be decimated; others think they'll be just fine. Same with snowmobiles vs hunting economic impact and their voice.
Our deer will be fine in our area; plenty of food, not enough access, and a few days in frigid December will result in a few more hunts and punched tags, and hopefully some more memories made.
Relative to going after bucks, it really is a great time to be successful. Low pressure hunts using the bed-food-bed pattern can be more effective than waiting on a pinch point in November. My hunting partner and I took these between the last day of regular and last day of MZ this past season. There's some real world experience as to why I've sent in my support to the DEC.
99297202_1639553082876458_5620113278324703232_o.thumb.jpg.7de7b34618ea98f47bc3e413eecfd66d.jpg
100879004_1639553106209789_680501799563558912_o.thumb.jpg.db897f54e6ef22f747baf11ebd343733.jpg
102664153_1652989011532865_6946077455977959491_o.thumb.jpg.663ebcd39a6c40db492cd2ae532fde82.jpg
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Can I be your new hunting partner lol


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ok have seen people want this some dont even heard it will ruin families ,,, well 1st if this is the down fall of family life you have bigger issues,,,, but any chance for extra hunting in NYS is a plus . I would guess that not many hunters will take advantage of it and then ones who do will be very happy with it....As it is now i dont hunt last week of rifle give the deer a break and hunt the last two days of muzzell   always see good numbers do the same with bow the last day of bow for me is normally 5-6 days prior to gun may hit state land but stay off mine,,,,

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On 9/11/2020 at 12:47 PM, phade said:

NY Snowmobile industry in its entirety is worth $868M (SUNY Potsdam valuation). There are 122K registered snowmobiles in NY as of 2019 (SUNY Potsdam/NYS DMV).

NY is a top three state for hunting/fishing revenue - several multiples larger than the revenue generated by NY snowmobilers' entire industry. If we want to talk deer hunters, there are usually between 550-750K deer hunters in NY. NY hunters spent $1.9B in hunting-related trip expenses alone as of 2015 (NYS Comptroller) - that doesn't include their entire industry. Meaning hotels, bars, restaurants, etc. Keep in mind, just the money sportsmen spend on trips alone is double the entire value of the NY snowmobile industry. Add in the entirety of the top-3 state's worth...and it's not close.

Thinking the snowmobile industry is going to shoot down a season to better help control deer numbers, especially in areas where needed, seems questionable. Will they put up a fight? Yep. Will it have an impact - probably not as much as the hunter input, full well knowing the DEC has been trying to expand seasons with a bangstick for 15+ years.

and if we could start baiting for bears, image the cash that'd bring in! haha

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On 9/11/2020 at 1:42 PM, Jeremy K said:

I still dont believe those numbers are even close , its amazing how facts can be cherry picked to fit a narrative.  The first search I pulled up showed hunting tags made up 50 million dollars in sales ,that includes fishing, I sure would be curious what hunters are spending all this other money on as well as what expenses they left out of the snowmobilers total. If we are going to include equipment as well then its no contest that sledders spend more money. Another figure we'll never be able to accurately total is what kind of revenue the local businesses bring in ,but I've heard more then one bar owner say that sledding season is their busiest time of the year if the trails are rideable. 

your argument is that your anecdotal perception must be more accurate than facts/stats, even if said facts are cherry picked. Come on now man. Phade's best point aside from the research is the north vs southern zone, which is clearly and probably carefully considered in all of this.

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On 9/11/2020 at 3:15 PM, phade said:

 I don't rely on what a bar owner says, and that might just be a personal difference.

the bar owner is still probably correct in their micro bubble. My point all along has been that the few grand they bring in extra from snowmobilers doesn't mean the overall financial impact is greater to the state, even if a few dozen bars benefit. 

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6 minutes ago, Belo said:

your argument is that your anecdotal perception must be more accurate than facts/stats, even if said facts are cherry picked. Come on now man. Phade's best point aside from the research is the north vs southern zone, which is clearly and probably carefully considered in all of this.

I'm done ,I've said what I have to say ,now we'll just wait it out and see who's correct.

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On 9/11/2020 at 5:16 PM, dbHunterNY said:


Also you have to consider funding to have an open season. You're paying ecos or maybe DEC staff 1.5 or double by necessity to patrol, answer calls, or go survey deer take. DEC is reluctant to think itll add much to deer take so it's all really just for your happiness. State is already broke from deficit and now covid costs.

 

where did you see they don't expect high take? I have to imagine the only reason is to increase take, and in comparison that could reduce some of the other calls the DEC has to go to.

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57 minutes ago, Belo said:

the bar owner is still probably correct in their micro bubble. My point all along has been that the few grand they bring in extra from snowmobilers doesn't mean the overall financial impact is greater to the state, even if a few dozen bars benefit. 

Those bars are probably using cash accounting and not even accrual if that gives you impression on impact; we're talking impact on a personal level vs. material revenue from large landholders, industry businesses, license buyers blowing money on associated costs, and significant amounts of excise tax - that oh by the way, Cuomo uses like a piggybank to take from when he so desires.

At the end of the day, will snowmobilers make a stink - yep. But relative to lift and shift or added days, they both have an impact on when trails would likely open on private property. I just don't think it's enough to curtail a decision - heck, even license sales are up big this year. State going to stop that foraging cash cow?

 

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On 9/12/2020 at 10:06 AM, phade said:

This thread is all over. People see deer late, people don't see deer late. People think the herd will be decimated; others think they'll be just fine. Same with snowmobiles vs hunting economic impact and their voice.

Our deer will be fine in our area; plenty of food, not enough access, and a few days in frigid December will result in a few more hunts and punched tags, and hopefully some more memories made.

Relative to going after bucks, it really is a great time to be successful. Low pressure hunts using the bed-food-bed pattern can be more effective than waiting on a pinch point in November. My hunting partner and I took these between the last day of regular and last day of MZ this past season. There's some real world experience as to why I've sent in my support to the DEC.

99297202_1639553082876458_5620113278324703232_o.jpg

100879004_1639553106209789_680501799563558912_o.jpg

102664153_1652989011532865_6946077455977959491_o.jpg

102693616_1652988911532875_8740402047726229985_o.jpg

Congrats; some nice bucks !

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56 minutes ago, mowin said:

There's a lot more land out there that doesn't have a snowmobile trail then land that does.  This snowmobile argument is realistically for a very small percentage of huntable lands throughout the southern zone. 

You're correct, however the snowmobile trails will not be allowed to open until all deer hunting seasons have ended in the zone so it doesn't really matter how many lands are crossed or not by a trail.  As I have stated earlier in the thread, the biggest single issue with loosing trail access is people riding the trails prior to the end of the hunting season, and this will just make that problem worse with people chomping at the bit to get our and ride.

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Its says right in the proposal under nys register that trail closures related to expanded hunting seasons are subjective to local stipulation. I dont think itll be an issue but I'm sure you'll have some pissing matches back and forth between local folks. No different than anything else.

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where did you see they don't expect high take? I have to imagine the only reason is to increase take, and in comparison that could reduce some of the other calls the DEC has to go to.
I dont even need to read it somewhere. Common knowledge when talking to big game unit staff and looking at harvest numbers. Good number die in first weeks of reg firearm season. DEC does state this in the official NYS Register doc submitted with details. See link and photo.
https://www.dos.ny.gov/info/register/2020/090920.pdf
f5ab4e7aac0d8e7c70a0e46246bb7e45.jpg

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6 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

Its says right in the proposal under nys register that trail closures related to expanded hunting seasons are subjective to local stipulation. I dont think itll be an issue but I'm sure you'll have some pissing matches back and forth between local folks. No different than anything else.

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I guess I don't get your point about it not being an issue?  We already have problems with people riding early, when you push that date later in the year the problem will get worse. There is no pissing matches, the trails for the most part go across private land, when the people ride early, the land owner shuts the trail down and then it becomes the problem of the local clubs to try and reroute the trail around the land owner, in some cases this can't be done. Either way it's a problem.

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31 minutes ago, Rack Attack said:

You're correct, however the snowmobile trails will not be allowed to open until all deer hunting seasons have ended in the zone so it doesn't really matter how many lands are crossed or not by a trail.  As I have stated earlier in the thread, the biggest single issue with loosing trail access is people riding the trails prior to the end of the hunting season, and this will just make that problem worse with people chomping at the bit to get our and ride.

The DEC article states that the trails we be open.  I don't see any Issues.  

Again it such a small % of hunting lands, that it makes your argument against the extended season irrelevant. 

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1 minute ago, Rack Attack said:

They can't dictate that to private land owners... That in itself will make the matter even worse.  Trust me, if there is any form of deer season open in the area, the trails will be closed.

So, the state should scrap the idea because a very small % of hunting lands MIGHT be closed to snowmobilers?

That's crazy. 

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I guess I don't get your point about it not being an issue?  We already have problems with people riding early, when you push that date later in the year the problem will get worse. There is no pissing matches, the trails for the most part go across private land, when the people ride early, the land owner shuts the trail down and then it becomes the problem of the local clubs to try and reroute the trail around the land owner, in some cases this can't be done. Either way it's a problem.
Part of the local snowmobile club here. Private landowners will decide if they want trail open or closed at that time. Anyone hunting or riding through is at the mercy of their decision. It doesnt change the problem with people riding when trails are deemed closed due to lack of snow, spring like conditions, or whatever. Only thing that seems to help is locked access gates put up by clubs. There is literally no other way to keep the public off trails maintained by clubs at the appropriate times to not piss off landowners. It's a bitch session that happens every year at club meetings this doesnt change the business that will need to be conducted as usual.

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