Sportsman/Gun Owners and the election

[Farflung]

I don't often post on this site, but I am very involved with various sportsmen and conservation organizations. I'm probably preaching to the choir, but I have a couple of quick thoughts (hardly original ones) on the election.

This is truly the  election that will determine if our 2nd amendment rights will endure for ourselves, our children and grandchildren. The "progressive" democrats and socialists are bound and determined to take them away. They know that a unarmed populace are subjects rather than citizens ... and that is how they want us. They will try to take away our arms so they can subject us to higher taxation, the Green New Deal, and unfettered illegal immigration.

How can we help ourselves at this late date? Well obviously by voting ourselves. It always annoys me when folks that have Election Day off from work, take the day to go hunting and skip the voting. Another way to help is by offering to drive folks, older or otherwise, to the polls. Remember that we will likely have a record turnout which combined with the Covid 19 issue, may make for long lines.

In the  22nd Congressional District race, we have former Congresswoman Claudia Tenney versus Incumbent Anthony Brindisi. Claudia is well known for her support of the 2nd amendment. Both the NRA and the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association have given Claudia a "A" rating. Congress Brindisi seems a nice enough person, or at least until you consider the company that he keeps. He voted with Palozzi more than 90% of the time. And his campaign is run to a large extent on monies coming indirectly from George Soros, Big Tech and left-wing celebrities. So a vote for Brindisi is a vote for Palozzi (and AOC, Ilhan Omar, Bernie S., and the rest of the democrat-socialists).

We can't rely on the Supreme Court to save us for any length of time. Biden will pack the court with leftist, activist justices who will flaunt the  originalist meaning of the Constitution. They will revisit previous decisions (such as Heller) and will destroy our right to bear arms. And Biden has said that he would be putting Beto O'Rourke in charge of his gun policies (you remember that Beto stated in the primaries that he would do a mandatory confiscation of AR-15's and any other guns that he styled as assault weapons).  The 2nd amendment will become a hollow shell of what the 2nd amendment s author, George Mason, intended when he stated "I ask, sir, what is the  Militia? It is the whole people".

 

[Farflung]

any thoughts? just too obvious?

[Grouse]

Hunters and gun owners have no choice but to vote for Trump.  Anyone voting for Biden is sacrificing their hunting and 2nd A rights for some other reason.  I can't imagine what they think is worth giving up these rights for.

Besides, how can anyone see what Democrats are planning to do with 2nd A rights and think it has anything to do with crime or criminals?  Nothing they are proposing will affect the lawless and no data set says it will.  So why are they pushing it?

IMHO, because it has nothing to do with reducing crime.

I think it will actually increase crime.  I also think the Democrats know it will too.  That's scary.

[Versatile_Hunter]

 

[Versatile_Hunter]

Plenty of hunters and shooters support Biden and see his administration as the only path forward for sustainable wildlife habitat management. Biden will side with science instead of with niche industry interests and ensure that public lands will remain public. The notion that the 2nd amendment is at risk is a fiction used to compel hunters to ultimately vote against their own interest and side with Trump. Don't fall for it.

https://www.sportsmenandwomenforbiden.com/learn-more

 

[Grouse]

I disagree.  Wildlife habitat management and public land remaining open is one issue.  Attacks on the 2nd A are a second issue, completely detached from the first one.

Many hunters have been affected by attacks and infringements on the 2nd A.  Transferring a shotgun to your grandson, lending one to a friend to hunt with, being "red flagged" by an anti hunting neighbor or not being able to buy a gun or ammo due to an erroneous NICS denial without any route to appeal, would be only a few of the things that come to mind.

All of these things have been put in place by anti-gun politicians like Biden, knowing full well they have no impact on crime reduction.

Why would any hunter want to gamble with their right to own a firearm being converted into a government sanctioned privilege?  That's what a Biden administration threatens to do.

[Versatile_Hunter]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

I disagree.  Wildlife habitat management and public land remaining open is one issue.  Attacks on the 2nd A are a second issue, completely detached from the first one.

Many hunters have been affected by attacks and infringements on the 2nd A.  Transferring a shotgun to your grandson, lending one to a friend to hunt with, being "red flagged" by an anti hunting neighbor or not being able to buy a gun or ammo due to an erroneous NICS denial without any route to appeal, would be only a few of the things that come to mind.

All of these things have been put in place by anti-gun politicians like Biden, knowing full well they have no impact on crime reduction.

Why would any hunter want to gamble with their right to own a firearm being converted into a government sanctioned privilege?  That's what a Biden administration threatens to do.

Yes, they are 2 distinct issues. Protection of the environment is a very real dilemma and Biden’s platform is clearly on the right side. In contrast, Trump continues to deny climate change. 

The 2nd amendment concerns aren’t actually grounded in reality. We live in a state with some of the most thorough gun legislation and few who operate within the confines of the law run into the problems that you mention. 

I don’t consider restrictions on magazine capacity (or the like) to be of any relevance to hunters and sportsmen. I would take some minor legislative hurdles and a healthy ecosystem any day over unregulated access to firearms and nothing to hunt. That seems to be choice presented to us in the current political climate.

[wolc123]

If Biden sides with science, then why can't he accept the scientifically provable fact that new life begins at conception, making abortion akin to murder ?

 

[Grouse]

10 hours ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

I don’t consider restrictions on magazine capacity (or the like) to be of any relevance to hunters and sportsmen. I would take some minor legislative hurdles and a healthy ecosystem any day over unregulated access to firearms and nothing to hunt. That seems to be choice presented to us in the current political climate.

The 2nd A issues that affect everyone have nothing to do with hunting.  They are attacking our right to self defense during lawless anarchy.  NY is especially bad in that regard and they are affecting many hunters.  We are most certainly way past "unregulated access" to firearms in 2020.

To say few who operate within the confines of the law run into the problems that I mentioned is a myth, and will become much more prevalent in the future with widely expanded abuse of these useless laws.  For example, if an anti-gun administration were to succeed in banning all "military style assault weapons", they will then move on to other semi auto rifles and even shotguns.  Then they will attack semi auto handguns and then move on to all handguns.  That's what "progressive" means in actuality.  Don't believe it?  Look at all the other countries around the world that have already done it and study the history of how they did it.  It's all right there to see.

Don't trust what the government says.  They tell you what you will believe while they constantly try to expand their own power and control.  That's what Biden is doing right now.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Grouse

[Versatile_Hunter]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

The 2nd A issues that affect everyone have nothing to do with hunting.  They are attacking our right to self defense during lawless anarchy.  NY is especially bad in that regard and they are affecting many hunters.  We are most certainly way past "unregulated access" to firearms in 2020.

To say few who operate within the confines of the law run into the problems that I mentioned is a myth, and will become much more prevalent in the future with widely expanded abuse of these useless laws.  For example, if an anti-gun administration were to succeed in banning all "military style assault weapons", they will then move on to other semi auto rifles and even shotguns.  Then they will attack semi auto handguns and then move on to all handguns.  That's what "progressive" means in actuality.  Don't believe it?  Look at all the other countries around the world that have already done it and study the history of how they did it.  It's all right there to see.

Don't trust what the government says.  They tell you what you will believe while they constantly try to expand their own power and control.  That's what Biden is doing right now.

I am an outspoken advocate for legal access to firearms for hunters and sportsmen and women. I don’t lose much sleep at the prospect that doomsday preppers or AR aficionados may someday have to contend with added restrictions. My statement “ I would take some minor legislative hurdles and a healthy ecosystem any day over unregulated access to firearms and nothing to hunt.” refers to opposing trajectories effectively articulated/implied by the 2 parties. Compel your Republican officials to take the environment seriously and you may actually alter this binary trajectory.

You mention several legislative hurdles dealing with folks transferring guns to family, etc, as common. I maintain that these challenges are rare and easy to a navigate through if the gun owner/recipient are legal (ie. no criminal record).  

Gun owners are not all hapless observers. This notion that the only obvious next step will be to disarm America is ridiculous.  That is the actual fiction that you’re being fed and that you must guard against. If the goal is to safeguard the 2nd amendment, I guarantee you that fighting for unfettered access to high capacity magazines will not get you there. I propose the alternative to ensuring legal access to firearms: Act to normalize gun ownership by 1- not being a nut, 2- welcoming and introducing diverse members of your local non-shooting community to the sport that we at huntingNY enjoy so much, shooting and hunting.   

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

On 11/1/2020 at 9:17 AM, Versatile_Hunter said:

Plenty of hunters and shooters support Biden and see his administration as the only path forward for sustainable wildlife habitat management. Biden will side with science instead of with niche industry interests and ensure that public lands will remain public. The notion that the 2nd amendment is at risk is a fiction used to compel hunters to ultimately vote against their own interest and side with Trump. Don't fall for it.

https://www.sportsmenandwomenforbiden.com/learn-more

 

Fiction? LMFAO That is priceless

[ApexerER]

20 hours ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

Yes, they are 2 distinct issues. Protection of the environment is a very real dilemma and Biden’s platform is clearly on the right side. In contrast, Trump continues to deny climate change. 

The 2nd amendment concerns aren’t actually grounded in reality. We live in a state with some of the most thorough gun legislation and few who operate within the confines of the law run into the problems that you mention. 

I don’t consider restrictions on magazine capacity (or the like) to be of any relevance to hunters and sportsmen. I would take some minor legislative hurdles and a healthy ecosystem any day over unregulated access to firearms and nothing to hunt. That seems to be choice presented to us in the current political climate.

Where does this falsehood that Republicans want dirty, air, land and water. That is just simply not factual. What is a fact is that this is a very big world and when you consider the world our country is small. What they don't want to do is tie our hands behind our back with regulations that make it possible to compete in the world of manufacturing. Especially while there are numerous countries like China and India that have almost no environmental regulations at all. Would you rather have a factory here at home, creating jobs, taxes and some regulations on the what they can and can't do to the environment, or have that factory in China, where they can pollute all they want, all while not providing any jobs or taxes for us here at home. Its a balancing act, and unless other countries come on board, we have seen what the effects of over regulation have done to our manufacturing while doing nothing to help the world wide environment. 

[airedale]

45 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Fiction? LMFAO That is priceless

You got that right, those are people of connections, position, property, power and money, they have means of getting around any laws to continue to hunt as much as they please. The are far from the average working stiff who may be lucky to find some decent hunting land to pursue game, the average guys are the folks that will be hit hard by these gun, and conservation laws and regulations. The same approach was and is used in Europe, the Dandys still get to hunt but the every day Joe folks like you see as members on this board get only to read about it.

Al

Edited November 2, 2020 by airedale

[DirtTime]

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by DirtTime

[Shoots100]

On 11/1/2020 at 9:17 AM, Versatile_Hunter said:

Don't fall for it.

https://www.sportsmenandwomenforbiden.com/learn-more

 

Well, Bidens Firearm policy just doesn't effect Hunters and Sportspeople,  it effects every gun owner that has an AR15 (And whatever other Long Gun they deem an Evil Assault weapon),

Any pistol that has the ability to accept a magazine that will hold more than 10 rounds and "High Capacity" magazines, meaning magazines that can hold over a 10 round capacity.

Said Firearms and magazines will need to be serialized, registered and then a fee of $200 apc paid to the Gov't for every type of Evil firearm and magazine.

Maybe that's how Ol' joe plans to pay for free college and the green new deal ?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg of his common sense firearm confiscation policies.

You can fast forward through this video, but it's worth watching every second or you can just believe the 2nd amendment isn't at risk ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82Ppmg0abO4

 

[Shoots100]

5 hours ago, ApexerER said:

Where does this falsehood that Republicans want dirty, air, land and water. That is just simply not factual. What is a fact is that this is a very big world and when you consider the world our country is small. What they don't want to do is tie our hands behind our back with regulations that make it possible to compete in the world of manufacturing. Especially while there are numerous countries like China and India that have almost no environmental regulations at all. Would you rather have a factory here at home, creating jobs, taxes and some regulations on the what they can and can't do to the environment, or have that factory in China, where they can pollute all they want, all while not providing any jobs or taxes for us here at home. Its a balancing act, and unless other countries come on board, we have seen what the effects of over regulation have done to our manufacturing while doing nothing to help the world wide environment. 

Joe's in China's pocket and if the US cuts down on it's pollution, China can pollute twice as much as it does now !

[wolc123]

This is all moot because Trump really has the momentum now.  Not only will he bury Biden in a deeper electoral landslide than he did Hillary, but he is also on track to take the popular vote.

[mowin]

44 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

This is all moot because Trump really has the momentum now.  Not only will he bury Biden in a deeper electoral landslide than he did Hillary, but he is also on track to take the popular vote.

Gosh I hope your correct.  However, I really think the senate majority is in danger. 

If the libtards take the senate, Trump will be impeached the day after the inauguration. 

[wolc123]

2 hours ago, mowin said:

Gosh I hope your correct.  However, I really think the senate majority is in danger. 

If the libtards take the senate, Trump will be impeached the day after the inauguration. 

More likely, those who are voting for Trump, will vote straight Republican, and flip the House.  That way, he can really get things done in his second term.  

[Nomad]

13 hours ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

I am an outspoken advocate for legal access to firearms for hunters and sportsmen and women. I don’t lose much sleep at the prospect that doomsday preppers or AR aficionados may someday have to contend with added restrictions.

Classic Fudd , 2A has nothing to do, with hunting . Gun owners outnumber hunters by 20 fold , if hunters don’t want to support 2A then we’ll crush hunting . The AR is the number one rifle in the US , you really want us on your side , but whatever , I certainly can get behind banning  the “ sniper rifles “ that hunters use .

 

oh and someday added restrictions, lol where have you been ? 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Nomad

[ncountry]

9 hours ago, wolc123 said:

More likely, those who are voting for Trump, will vote straight Republican, and flip the House.  That way, he can really get things done in his second term.  

I really like your optimism..

But I'm worried.

[Versatile_Hunter]

9 hours ago, Nomad said:

Classic Fudd , 2A has nothing to do, with hunting . Gun owners outnumber hunters by 20 fold , if hunters don’t want to support 2A then we’ll crush hunting . The AR is the number one rifle in the US , you really want us on your side , but whatever , I certainly can get behind banning  the “ sniper rifles “ that hunters use .

 

oh and someday added restrictions, lol where have you been ? 

2A has nothing to do, with hunting . 

-Not at all what I said  

 

Gun owners outnumber hunters by 20 fold , if hunters don’t want to support 2A then we’ll crush hunting . 

-Let’s be honestly your crushing days are long behind you 

 

The AR is the number one rifle in the US , you really want us on your side , but whatever , I certainly can get behind banning  the “ sniper rifles “ that hunters use .

-ARs are popular but constitute a small fraction of total firearms out there. The AR is badly losing the PR battle and tantrums like yours certainly don’t help its cause. I’m of the mindset that groups who urge us to arm teachers and clowns who regard the AR as a central part of their identity actually taint gun ownership and imperil gun rights in this country. 

 

oh and someday added restrictions, lol where have you been ? 

-Fingers crossed that Biden wins today! If you’re concerned about your mag capacity, write a letter to your reps. Certainly more useful than threatening retribution to hunters and sportsman and fantasizing about your “crushing” days. 

[Versatile_Hunter]

20 hours ago, airedale said:

You got that right, those are people of connections, position, property, power and money, they have means of getting around any laws to continue to hunt as much as they please. The are far from the average working stiff who may be lucky to find some decent hunting land to pursue game, the average guys are the folks that will be hit hard by these gun, and conservation laws and regulations. The same approach was and is used in Europe, the Dandys still get to hunt but the every day Joe folks like you see as members on this board get only to read about it.

Al

Republicans have been working hard to chip away at public lands. If you’re concerned about hunting access, vote for Biden. The American model of conservation (public access and public, not private, ownership of wildlife) is nothing like the European model. But I understand your fears. The Republicans have been trying hard to erode our access to public lands for the profit of a small group of folks providing campaign funds.  

[Five Seasons]

On 10/31/2020 at 10:22 PM, Farflung said:

This is truly the  election that will determine if our 2nd amendment rights will endure for ourselves, our children and grandchildren.

I haven't been around nearly as long as many here, but in my late 30's I've seen the gun legal world swing drastically in both directions and while I don't disagree that the progressive agenda is more in your face than ever and it wasn't that long ago that a campaign would never have put out what it did on its website like what Biden has out there...

I also think that this is said every major election  "this is truly the one where we fight for our rights", and I'm not confident that's the case here.

That being said, if it wasn't for Corona, the topic would have received a lot more attention during debates and polling, but it's just not as important as the deaths and lockdowns and rightfully so.

[Five Seasons]

5 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

Republicans have been working hard to chip away at public lands. If you’re concerned about hunting access, vote for Biden. The American model of conservation (public access and public, not private, ownership of wildlife) is nothing like the European model. But I understand your fears. The Republicans have been trying hard to erode our access to public lands for the profit of a small group of folks providing campaign funds.  

are you smoking something? Trump just signed the single largest public lands bill since Teddy... geez man.

https://www.ecowatch.com/great-american-outdoors-act-law-2646893513.html