DEC Unveils New Deer Management Plan

[Robhuntandfish]

if this passes it will change how I hunt during the season, anyone else?  

If they pass the early Sept season I have a spot in 7J (which will def be on the list as they cant give out enough permits, always leftovers)   I rarely get to hunt now cause in Oct they put cows out in the field to feed.  Early Sept season I will be there a bunch and try to get an early freezer doe which frees me up more for hunting bucks and less early season Oct hunting before the rut.  (at least thats the plan) .  Which i thought at first i wouldnt like a sept season but it might give me some oppurtunity in a spot I really like that is heavy with does. Losing my best spot for next year i would be holding myself back some not to burn out my other spot early. 

Also a stand we were looking to put up will be easier as a 9ft to get a shot with a xbow than the compound without getting busted. (not a debate on xbow vs compound - I love them both just IMHO xbow easier to get away with less movement in tight quarters) 

I also might use a small groundblind more as i dont have to draw a bow in it, just shoot the xbow

and honestly my compound will prob become a back up or more of an occasional use.  

[wildcat junkie]

On 12/4/2020 at 1:23 PM, G-Man said:

Yep i remember the clamber to allow scopes on muzzleloaders ,i used a side lock for years, when they made scopes legal i bought one

Colorado does not allow optics for ML Elk because it allows animals to be hit and wounded far beyond the ballistic capabilities of most muzzle loaders.

[DoubleDose]

1 hour ago, Trial153 said:

Up sure looks like archery to me....

Looks shouldn't matter.  Compound bows don't look like stick/recurve bows. ARs don't look like other rifles, yet they are nothing more than semi auto CF rifle.   Modern/inline muzzleloaders (especially those that are smokeless powder capable) do not look like sidelock muzzleloaders.  Ranging sights exist for vertical bows too.

[mlammerhirt]

Colorado does not allow optics for ML Elk because it allows animals to be hit and wounded far beyond the ballistic capabilities of most muzzle loaders.

Does it state that in the Colorado regs or is that just an old wives tale.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[G-Man]

33 minutes ago, mlammerhirt said:

Does it state that in the Colorado regs or is that just an old wives tale.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

Many states in the nw do not allow a closed breach ( inline not open to atmosphere) cva even makes northwest editions that have open breach plugs that use musket caps vs shotgun primers.. just to comply with their regulations.

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, Nomad said:

Ohio it’s been like 40 years .

also Ohio has a week long gun season. Don't compare apples to oranges, whereas here in NY we're looking to extend one the nations longest. 

2020 Deer-Gun Season Dates

• Youth weekend: Saturday, Nov. 21 and Sunday, Nov. 22. This weekend is open to hunters with a youth hunting license and deer permit.
• Deer-gun week: Monday, Nov. 30 to Sunday, Dec. 6.
• •Bonus weekend: Saturday, Dec. 19 and Sunday, Dec. 20.

[Five Seasons]

45 minutes ago, DoubleDose said:

Looks shouldn't matter.  Compound bows don't look like stick/recurve bows. ARs don't look like other rifles, yet they are nothing more than semi auto CF rifle.   Modern/inline muzzleloaders (especially those that are smokeless powder capable) do not look like sidelock muzzleloaders.  Ranging sights exist for vertical bows too.

you're missing the point. it's not the look, it's the self adjusting optic. 

[Trial153]

Gun hunters in New York are greedy they have one of the longest seasons in the country and it's not enough for them.
That's the reason for pushing crossbows in the the archery season, hell if they could break out their 06 in archery they would.

[9jNYstarkOH]

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/573347

[DoubleDose]

14 minutes ago, Belo said:

you're missing the point. it's not the look, it's the self adjusting optic. 

Didn't miss the point at all.  Trial153 stated "looks" in a discussion about xbows.  I also commented that Ranging sights (self adjusting optic) exist for vertical bows too.

Edited December 30, 2020 by DoubleDose
clarification

[XGX7PM]

ł have been consumed latlely, does this proposal include language to ban scents? 

[Trial153]

Didn't miss the point at all.  Trial153 stated "looks" in a discussion about xbows.  I also commented that Ranging sights (self adjusting optic) exist for vertical bows too.

What it looks like an functions like is gun.

The dirty little secret is that nobody is stopping anyone from bow hunting, Go buy a bow and hunt the entire bow season.
Or sit your ass and wait for it to dumbed down enough, then you could use a crossbow, because it's now as easy as using your gun.

[BizCT]

If NY wanted to become a big buck state, that had successful outfitters, etc. it would need to do some or all of the following in my opinion:

• 1-buck rule per hunter, regardless of weapon (this forces Hunters to be more picky and pass more younger bucks)
• Antler Restrictions state-wide (maybe vary them across the state by unit- 3 to a side in Eastern NY and 4 to a side in Western NY)
• Shorten the gun season to 1 single week whether it's 5, 6, or 7 days
• Make the penalties for poaching and illegal kills/tagging much much harsher. The above new rules only work if there is strict enforcement. A fine can't be only $500 or some guys will be ok with paying $500/year to shoot 2 bucks. The penalties/fines/loss of licenses need to be harsh.

[Trial153]

Forget big bucks, how about we get to the point where our buck harvest isnt 80% 1.5 year old bucks..

 

 

[johnplav]

11 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

If NY wanted to become a big buck state, that had successful outfitters, etc. it would need to do some or all of the following in my opinion:

• 1-buck rule per hunter, regardless of weapon (this forces Hunters to be more picky and pass more younger bucks)
• Antler Restrictions state-wide (maybe vary them across the state by unit- 3 to a side in Eastern NY and 4 to a side in Western NY)
• Shorten the gun season to 1 single week whether it's 5, 6, or 7 days
• Make the penalties for poaching and illegal kills/tagging much much harsher. The above new rules only work if there is strict enforcement. A fine can't be only $500 or some guys will be ok with paying $500/year to shoot 2 bucks. The penalties/fines/loss of licenses need to be harsh.

You're probably right... but I doubt the DEC deer management plan has anything to do with NY becoming a "big buck state"

[BizCT]

11 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

Forget big bucks, how about we get to the point where our buck harvest isnt 80% 1.5 year old bucks..

 

 

AR's would help. In my limited experience hunting PA in 2011 and 2013 during archery season on statelands i saw lots of young bucks. I havent been back in several years but I bet there's a lot more older bucks now.

[DoubleDose]

1 hour ago, Trial153 said:

What it looks like an functions like is gun.

The dirty little secret is that nobody is stopping anyone from bow hunting, Go buy a bow and hunt the entire bow season.
Or sit your ass and wait for it to dumbed down enough, then you could use a crossbow, because it's now as easy as using your gun.

A bow functions with limbs, a string, a handle, and an arrow.

A gun (firearm) functions with a lock, stock, barrel, propellant and a bullet.

A xbow functions with limbs, a string, a lock, a stock, and a bolt (arrow).  There is no barrel, propellant, or bullet.

IMO and most State DECs opinions, it functions like a bow and not a gun. 

There is no dirty little secret; just lots of strong opinions and feelings on including xbows in archery season.

Edited December 30, 2020 by DoubleDose
clarification

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, Trial153 said:

Forget big bucks, how about we get to the point where our buck harvest isnt 80% 1.5 year old bucks..

 

 

I think we passed that point three or four years ago, based mostly on folks voluntarily passing 1.5's.   I have not personally harvested an antlered buck, with less than three points on a side, since 2012.

The real problem is that too many hunters have too narrow of a focus, thinking it is all about the harvest of big antlered bucks.  That "trophy" mindset does not sit well with the non-hunting majority.

They are much more supportive with folks hunting for the meat, and even more so, for helping to keep the population under control, reducing auto collisions and landscape/crop damage.

Personally, I would like to see NY go to 3 bucks, for those who purchase gun, bow, and ML privledge, and I think the non-hunting public would concur.  Bucks cause more car accidents than does, and more landscape damage, especially when it comes to pine trees.

Edited December 30, 2020 by wolc123

[mowin]

6 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I think we passed that point three or four years ago, based mostly on folks voluntarily passing 1.5's.   I have not personally harvested an antlered buck, with less than three points on a side, since 2012.

The real problem is that too many hunters have too narrow of a focus, thinking it is all about the harvest of big antlered bucks.  That "trophy" mindset does not sit well with the non-hunting majority.

They are much more supportive with folks hunting for the meat, and even more so, for helping to keep the population under control, reducing auto collisions and landscape/crop damage.

Personally, I would like to see NY go to 3 bucks, for those who purchase gun, bow, and ML privledge, and I think the non-hunting public would concur.  Bucks cause more car accidents than does, and more landscape damage, especially when it comes to pine trees.

I agree with the 3 bucks. One for each privilege. 

I don't agree that bucks do more landscape damage. Yes, might have a few trees/shrub rubbed up, but I see more does then bucks in my clients yards eating shrubs, plants that I just planted. 

[G-Man]

5 hours ago, Belo said:

also Ohio has a week long gun season. Don't compare apples to oranges, whereas here in NY we're looking to extend one the nations longest. 

2020 Deer-Gun Season Dates

• Youth weekend: Saturday, Nov. 21 and Sunday, Nov. 22. This weekend is open to hunters with a youth hunting license and deer permit.
• Deer-gun week: Monday, Nov. 30 to Sunday, Dec. 6.
• •Bonus weekend: Saturday, Dec. 19 and Sunday, Dec. 20.

Also after the rut some thing newyorkers would go crazy over

[9jNYstarkOH]

25 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Also after the rut some thing newyorkers would go crazy over

And over corn piles something New Yorkers would go crazy over. (I do bait for trail cams in Ohio but do not hunt over bait ) These 2 states are apples and oranges as far as hunting laws I own property and hunt both states. I like things from both states and dislike others but they are pretty far apart on management of wildlife.

[G-Man]

51 minutes ago, 9jNYstarkOH said:

And over corn piles something New Yorkers would go crazy over. (I do bait for trail cams in Ohio but do not hunt over bait ) These 2 states are apples and oranges as far as hunting laws I own property and hunt both states. I like things from both states and dislike others but they are pretty far apart on management of wildlife.

Yep most western states are but people love to compare and want part of what they do even if it is a insignificant part of their overall management plan

[Larry]

This is part of what I sent to the DEC.

This is in response to the NY Deer Management Plan.

I am generally in favor of the plan.

I like the chance to hunt in between Christmas and New Year’s weather I do or not that’s up to my wife.

I believe that the Cross Bow hunting should be tied to the archery and not muzzle loader. But to use a cross bow you should have to take the bow hunters course if you haven’t already taken it.

We should continue with the Let Them Grow program it seems to be reaping benefits on par or greater than Antler Restrictions without limiting choice

[Four Seasons]

6 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

If NY wanted to become a big buck state, that had successful outfitters, etc. it would need to do some or all of the following in my opinion:

• 1-buck rule per hunter, regardless of weapon (this forces Hunters to be more picky and pass more younger bucks)
• Antler Restrictions state-wide (maybe vary them across the state by unit- 3 to a side in Eastern NY and 4 to a side in Western NY)
• Shorten the gun season to 1 single week whether it's 5, 6, or 7 days
• Make the penalties for poaching and illegal kills/tagging much much harsher. The above new rules only work if there is strict enforcement. A fine can't be only $500 or some guys will be ok with paying $500/year to shoot 2 bucks. The penalties/fines/loss of licenses need to be harsh.

  Mandatory check stations and mail in of unused tags would help the cause big time. 

[DoubleDose]

11 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

  Mandatory check stations and mail in of unused tags would help the cause big time. 

...and ALL of this will require DEC resources ($$$).  Are you willing to pay more for your license(s)?  Do you trust the Governor to increase license fees only enough to cover this or excessively to be another revenue stream for the states general coffer?  History has shown it will be the latter!  Be careful what you wish for in NY because the Governor is not interested in hunting and views everything as an opportunity to get more of your money.