Arnold Schwarzenegger released a cautionary plea to the American public Sunday

[Northcountryman]

2 hours ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

This is a nuanced and valid argument. Of course the systematic extermination of over 6 million people has no contemporary equal in our society. But I don’t think that’s the point. We are seeing very similar parallels in regards to demagoguery and the outright propagation of falsehoods by those in positions of power. Likewise, we are seeing a frightening number of people outfight fall for the lies or turn a blind eye for political expediency. When the VP and the Republican Party are contemplating how best to rapidly end the president’s term and when QAnon conspiracies are the prominent source of information for a pathetically large fraction of the populace, I don’t think comparisons to Nazism is so inappropriate. The aim isn’t to diminish the atrocities of the Holocaust but rather to remember them and to guard against  letting the hateful scapegoating tactics of that time become acceptable again. 

Yes , we do see demagoguery and propagation of propagation of falsehoods and it comes from both sides . The left has engaged in their fair share of it over the years and I’m sure you and I can both pull up examples If it from both sides so their is no need . 

Actually I think that your missing the point here . It is very common in contemporary political discussions for many on the left ( maybe the right sometimes does it too, idk but I’ve never really seen it Coming from them) to invoke the memory of the Nazis to bolster their argument  or position as a way to discredit the other . In reality , What it does is Cheapen and undermine the central thesis of their positions by continually making weak, irrelevant  and unfair comparisons - kind of like the boy who cried wolf too many times . If you want to use the Nazi , Fascist  or whatever other evil political comparison you can conceive of , please make sure that it is apt and fitting . Otherwise , it just compromises the credibility of your argument !! 

[Five Seasons]

17 hours ago, Trial153 said:

Honestly it was profound and should be watched by everyone

100% it's very bipartisan with a shot at the end to both sides with regards to the constitution

19 hours ago, Uncle Nicky said:

Another Republican sellout...

How? Because he refuses to let the great republican party die as the party of lies and misinformation? The fact that even die hard republicans are still out there tied to Trump is mind boggling to me. 

[Versatile_Hunter]

38 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Yes , we do see demagoguery and propagation of propagation of falsehoods and it comes from both sides . The left has engaged in their fair share of it over the years and I’m sure you and I can both pull up examples If it from both sides so their is no need . 

Actually I think that your missing the point here . It is very common in contemporary political discussions for many on the left ( maybe the right sometimes does it too, idk but I’ve never really seen it Coming from them) to invoke the memory of the Nazis to bolster their argument  or position as a way to discredit the other . In reality , What it does is Cheapen and undermine the central thesis of their positions by continually making weak, irrelevant  and unfair comparisons - kind of like the boy who cried wolf too many times . If you want to use the Nazi , Fascist  or whatever other evil political comparison you can conceive of , please make sure that it is apt and fitting . Otherwise , it just compromises the credibility of your argument !! 

There is nothing like this in the Democratic Party. We aren’t talking about political doublespeak or press conferences were nothing is said. This is the president of the United States deliberately lying about the election outcome and cajoling his base to charge the Capitol. Trial by force. Do you really believe it’s the same on both sides? The Republican Party is scurrying to try to salvage some semblance of itself post-Trump. How many lifelong Republicans have to disavow trump for you to realize that something fishy’s going on here? This isn’t normal. It’s not the same on both sides. 

[phantom]

17 minutes ago, Belo said:

100% it's very bipartisan with a shot at the end to both sides with regards to the constitution

How? Because he refuses to let the great republican party die as the party of lies and misinformation? The fact that even die hard republicans are still out there tied to Trump is mind boggling to me. 

Well lets see they  illegally spied on trump  and  tried to  set him up as a Russian puppet  all  proven as  fake  made up BS .But  I did not here   the terminator or other dems  speak out about that  threat to are  government   or any of the other 100 riots that caused a lot more damage  to peoples lives or say anything about hunter and his father and there china deals ? So who fired the first shot  here  it  was not trump .  People look and see riots  all over  the place and the government does nothing  so  they get  more and more embolden  left nut jobs  and  right nut jobs  both sides . now if you crack down on one side and not the other guess what's going to happen more riots  from both . 

 

[Northcountryman]

7 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

There is nothing like this in the Democratic Party. We aren’t talking about political doublespeak or press conferences were nothing is said. This is the president of the United States deliberately lying about the election outcome and cajoling his base to charge the Capitol. Trial by force. Do you really believe it’s the same on both sides? The Republican Party is scurrying to try to salvage some semblance of itself post-Trump. How many lifelong Republicans have to disavow trump for you to realize that something fishy’s going on here? This isn’t normal. It’s not the same on both sides. 

You’re conflating the 2 issues now. I was talking about the Constant invocation of Nazism by the left in juxtaposition To modern Conservatism And , as I stated before , it has no factual basis . 
I don’t disagree with what you say about the Republican Party now Being in disarray as a consequence of the riot but , comparison to Nazism? Not even close 

Also , you state that Trump is deliberately lying to cajole his base about election fraud. No , he’s not . He may be wrong about the magnitude of the fraud causing his defeat , but , I think any fair minded person would have to agree with the assessment that the President truly believes that the election was stormed from him ; Maybe he’s right IDK. 
Having said that , I’m totally with you in condemning and denouncing his actions and behavior in terms of incitement of the riots . 
Because , Yup, he did do that . It was Totally irresponsible , reprehensible and incredibly selfish of him to do so and I am ashamed and embarrassed about what happened . 
 

But a comparison to Nazis ?? Nope , I’m not buying it 

[Chef]

I will ignore your "ignorant" characterisation and not respond in kind.   The point is in 1938 a political group attacked citizens (Jews).  In 2020, a group (too much credit to call them political) attacked the government, not citizens.  If they, had attacked a particular group of citizens it would be comparable.  I am not defending either attack.  I am just pointing out the significant difference in the two incidents.  Truth be told, what happened in the Capitol is not even close to what happened to the Jews in 1938.  The analogy is arguably reprehensible because it diminishes what happened in 1938!

As a Jew I do not find it reprehensible at all. I find the similarities shocking


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[Eric J]

22 hours ago, phantom said:

Actors did he say the same about the 1000 other riots we had in the past 4 years  and  lies anyone who didn't needs  to just shut up and move on  . This is crazy talk  trumps  kids and grand kids are Jewish  they love him in Israel  he made peace in the middle east .

Bingo!  The only Fascists in the USA and these Democrats taking away our freedoms.. including freedom of expression.

[DoubleDose]

2 hours ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

There is nothing like this in the Democratic Party. We aren’t talking about political doublespeak or press conferences were nothing is said. This is the president of the United States deliberately lying about the election outcome and cajoling his base to charge the Capitol. Trial by force. Do you really believe it’s the same on both sides? The Republican Party is scurrying to try to salvage some semblance of itself post-Trump. How many lifelong Republicans have to disavow trump for you to realize that something fishy’s going on here? This isn’t normal. It’s not the same on both sides. 

Both sides are guilty! Adam Schiff (D): I have the evidence of Russian collusion

Maxine Waters (D): 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by DoubleDose
addition

[Versatile_Hunter]

23 minutes ago, DoubleDose said:

Both sides are guilty! Adam Schiff (D): I have the evidence of Russian collusion

What are you talking about? Trump campaign officials have been convicted for their interactions with the Russians. After Barr/Trump claimed the report exonerated him, Mueller had to clarify that in no way was Trump exonerated. This is a false equivalence.

[Versatile_Hunter]

2 hours ago, Northcountryman said:

You’re conflating the 2 issues now. I was talking about the Constant invocation of Nazism by the left in juxtaposition To modern Conservatism And , as I stated before , it has no factual basis . 
I don’t disagree with what you say about the Republican Party now Being in disarray as a consequence of the riot but , comparison to Nazism? Not even close 

Also , you state that Trump is deliberately lying to cajole his base about election fraud. No , he’s not . He may be wrong about the magnitude of the fraud causing his defeat , but , I think any fair minded person would have to agree with the assessment that the President truly believes that the election was stormed from him ; Maybe he’s right IDK. 
Having said that , I’m totally with you in condemning and denouncing his actions and behavior in terms of incitement of the riots . 
Because , Yup, he did do that . It was Totally irresponsible , reprehensible and incredibly selfish of him to do so and I am ashamed and embarrassed about what happened . 
 

But a comparison to Nazis ?? Nope , I’m not buying it 

I don't know why you're arguing that the left uses the Nazi comparison more than the right. On the surface that would make some sense given that Nazi's were right wing extremists. But that's not what this thread is about. We're specifically discussing Trump's and his follower's similarities to Nazism in response to Arnold's video...

[Northcountryman]

The Nazis were not right wing extremists , they were Lefties and the reason why were discussing it is because it was brought up as a comparison to The MAGA movement;   Thus , it has everything to do with Nazism . No , I said that the Left uses that analogy more than the right but the right does use it too ( remember the Tea Party with their depictions of Obama as Hitler ?). Hogwash , same as the comparison of Trump and his supporters To Nazis . Absolute Hogwash

Edited January 11, 2021 by Northcountryman

[Chef]

The Nazis were not right wing extremists , they were Lefties and the reason why were discussing it is because it was brought up as a comparison to The MAGA movement;   Thus , it has everything to do with Nazism . No , I said that the Left uses that analogy more than the right but the right does use it too ( remember the Tea Party with their depictions of Obama as Hitler ?). Hogwash , same as the comparison of Trump and his supporters To Nazis . Absolute Hogwash

The Nazis were not left wing. Nazi may stand for national socialist but there was nothing socialist about their policies


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[DoubleDose]

36 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

What are you talking about? Trump campaign officials have been convicted for their interactions with the Russians. After Barr/Trump claimed the report exonerated him, Mueller had to clarify that in no way was Trump exonerated. This is a false equivalence.

VH, I am not defending Trump.  You said " There is nothing like this in the Democratic Party. We aren’t talking about political doublespeak or press conferences were nothing is said."   Schiff said he had the evidence of collusion, over and over  He never produced any.  Collusion was never proven. I agree it also did not exonerate Trump.  However, our legal system presumes innocent until proven guilty.  Verdicts are guilty or not guilty, no one is found "innocent" or exonerated.  Waters said to harass administration officials.  Both sides, D & R, lie, deceive, inflame, and incite.  

[Versatile_Hunter]

1 hour ago, Northcountryman said:

The Nazis were not right wing extremists , they were Lefties and the reason why were discussing it is because it was brought up as a comparison to The MAGA movement;   Thus , it has everything to do with Nazism . No , I said that the Left uses that analogy more than the right but the right does use it too ( remember the Tea Party with their depictions of Obama as Hitler ?). Hogwash , same as the comparison of Trump and his supporters To Nazis . Absolute Hogwash

Are you joking? The Nazi’s were fascists... I mean there are interesting conversations to have about the left-right divide across nations and through history. But in this case there isn't much wiggle room. 

[wolc123]

7 hours ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

This is a nuanced and valid argument. Of course the systematic extermination of over 6 million people has no contemporary equal in our society. 

You are right about the "no equal", however, since Roe vs Wade, almost exactly an order of magnitude more innocent lives have been snuffed in the US, before they were able to draw their first breath.  

[Versatile_Hunter]

15 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

You are right about the "no equal", however, since Roe vs Wade, almost exactly an order of magnitude more innocent lives have been snuffed in the US, before they were able to draw their first breath.  

Wow... just wow

[phantom]

4 hours ago, Chef said:

As a Jew I do not find it reprehensible at all. I find the similarities shocking


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So you think we should deal with trump people and trump like nazis  .

because by saying that  garbage that is what you are saying you do realize that don't you,  should we also group all   the left  the same way maybe ?

and what happens when you threaten people like that chef ? 

 

[Chef]

So you think we should deal with trump people and trump like nazis  .
because by saying that  garbage that is what you are saying you do realize that don't you,  should we also group all   the left  the same way maybe ?
and what happens when you threaten people like that chef ? 
 

I didn’t threaten anyone. But anyone who has a basic knowledge of history Can’t see the similarities between Trump and Hitler’s rise to power


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[Northcountryman]

1 hour ago, Chef said:

The Nazis were not left wing. Nazi may stand for national socialist but there was nothing socialist about their policies


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You’re admitting that there name derives from “national socialist Workers party” , yet you deny they’re leftists ? Doesn’t make sense . 

[Northcountryman]

40 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

Are you joking? The Nazi’s were fascists... I mean there are interesting conversations to have about the left-right divide across nations and through history. But in this case there isn't much wiggle room. 

Yes they were , and they were also leftists ; do you think that Fascism is owned by the right ? It comes from both sides of the political spectrum 

[Northcountryman]

6 minutes ago, Chef said:

I didn’t threaten anyone. But anyone who has a basic knowledge of history Can’t see the similarities between Trump and Hitler’s rise to power


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I cannot and I think that’s a major overreach to suggest otherwise . Again, you may not like him and that’s fine , because , considering what happened last Wednesday , I’m liking him a little less myself , not a Nazi ?? Nope 

[phantom]

9 minutes ago, Chef said:

I didn’t threaten anyone. But anyone who has a basic knowledge of history Can’t see the similarities between Trump and Hitler’s rise to power


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many people in this country take that as a threat and censoring them  makes them think they need to do something to stop that threat .

people that have different ideas then you does not make them a nazi . 

need to cut all that shit out on both sides . Every leader who is  popular  all have   things in common   does not mean they turn into hitler guy .

Edited January 11, 2021 by phantom

[Chef]

I cannot and I think that’s a major overreach to suggest otherwise . Again, you may not like him and that’s fine , because , considering what happened last Wednesday , I’m liking him a little less myself , not a Nazi ?? Nope 

Things like discrediting the media, fueling divide, claiming to be the victim... even the make America great again are all from hitlers play book


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[phantom]

4 hours ago, Chef said:

As a Jew I do not find it reprehensible at all. I find the similarities shocking


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o and btw Stalin was definitely left  and  he  killed 10 X more of his own people then Hitler.

[Chef]

o and btw Stalin was definitely left  and  he  killed 10 X more of his own people then Hitler.

What does one thing have to do with the other... the fact that you even made that comparison shows what a disgusting person you are


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