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Only two types of people don't think it was stolen.  Trump haters and fools.  There is a ton of evidence out there to prove it, but it's either being ignored or suppressed.  What we witnessed in 2020 was a political coup, the likes of which the world has never seen, by the most corrupt government ever.

If you don't think so, just wait to see what happens in the next few years.  God help America.

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3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Only two types of people don't think it was stolen.  Trump haters and fools.  There is a ton of evidence out there to prove it, but it's either being ignored or suppressed.  What we witnessed in 2020 was a political coup, the likes of which the world has never seen, by the most corrupt government ever.

If you don't think so, just wait to see what happens in the next few years.  God help America.

Hence why they want to take our firearms away.

Free men own guns, Slaves don't !

 

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14 hours ago, phantom said:

Well without Universal voter ID there's no way to know for sure if the election was stolen or not if Ihad to bet on it i would say odds are it was stolen . Just by looking at the numbers Biden got at his rallies compared to what Trump had it's hard to imagine he won legitimately . If you remember Trump got huge rallies when he was running against Hillary to and that one he won . 

They had 4 years to plan the cheat .

 

that's your gauge during a pandemic, given the very different opinions of covid... rally numbers?

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5 minutes ago, Belo said:

wow... just wow. Happy memorial day all, stay safe!

That was my reaction to your “ everyone’s an idiot who believes in election fraud “ post , which was surprising , and , disappointing since your usually fairly neutral And respectful ( except when going after Grouse ). Believing In election fraud is actually VERY plausible and I think you’d find that even many Democrats would agree with that premise as well - whether or not it was enough to get Biden elected or not , who knows , but there was INDEED election fraud . 

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27 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

That was my reaction to your “ everyone’s an idiot who believes in election fraud “ post , which was surprising , and , disappointing since your usually fairly neutral And respectful ( except when going after Grouse ). Believing In election fraud is actually VERY plausible and I think you’d find that even many Democrats would agree with that premise as well - whether or not it was enough to get Biden elected or not , who knows , but there was INDEED election fraud . 

There is always some level of fraud. In fact they proved some republicans committed fraud this election too. To believe the election was stolen or rigged is a different statement that attacks our democracy to its core and frankly is a sore loser mentality. How Trump handled this loss removed any sense of respect I had remaining for him. That's not how I was raised, or how I raise my 3 boys.

Again, if we want to talk about big tech influence, MSM influence in voting I'm all ears. But I will not debate with anyone that there were enough votes miscounted or cast illegally that would have changed the outcome. 

 

cheers

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31 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Believing In election fraud is actually VERY plausible and I think you’d find that even many Democrats would agree with that premise as well

Especially when a Republican wins an election, just ask Trump, he got hammered four straight years with no letup on that premise.

Al

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1 hour ago, Belo said:

There is always some level of fraud. In fact they proved some republicans committed fraud this election too. To believe the election was stolen or rigged is a different statement that attacks our democracy to its core and frankly is a sore loser mentality. How Trump handled this loss removed any sense of respect I had remaining for him. That's not how I was raised, or how I raise my 3 boys.

Again, if we want to talk about big tech influence, MSM influence in voting I'm all ears. But I will not debate with anyone that there were enough votes miscounted or cast illegally that would have changed the outcome. 

 

cheers

So you believe, 100% that the weakest candidate put forth by either party maybe ever....Got more votes than any other president ever??? Even Obama who i disagreed with but I can't deny that people thought he was a rock star.  That doesn't even make you go hmmmmm, a little bit?

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The mere suspicion of a stolen election requires an audit of the votes, otherwise all faith in the integrity of our election system is gone, and that will destroy this country.  Is that why leftists and Democrats are constantly criticizing them and trying to put a stop to all the audits?

Every thing they have done since election day indicates they want to stop any questions about this election without any proof, regardless of the consequences of doing so.  That indicates they are scared and hiding something.  That's a big problem for half of this country.  That's divisive and will prevent any unity in the future, no matter how many times they claim they want it.

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18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The mere suspicion of a stolen election requires an audit of the votes,

So now we’re pretending there weren’t audits and other processes in place, including judicial decisions, to verify the legitimacy of the election? Also forgetting that much of this took place in states run by Republican legislators and executives? The verdict is out. 

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1 hour ago, ApexerER said:

So you believe, 100% that the weakest candidate put forth by either party maybe ever....Got more votes than any other president ever??? Even Obama who i disagreed with but I can't deny that people thought he was a rock star.  That doesn't even make you go hmmmmm, a little bit?

You can thank Trump for the voter turnout. 4 years ago a lot of people didn't vote because they thought Hillary was a shoe in. That did not happen twice.

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5 hours ago, Belo said:

There is always some level of fraud. In fact they proved some republicans committed fraud this election too. To believe the election was stolen or rigged is a different statement that attacks our democracy to its core and frankly is a sore loser mentality. How Trump handled this loss removed any sense of respect I had remaining for him. That's not how I was raised, or how I raise my 3 boys.

Again, if we want to talk about big tech influence, MSM influence in voting I'm all ears. But I will not debate with anyone that there were enough votes miscounted or cast illegally that would have changed the outcome. 

 

cheers

Then we can have no Substantive dialogue about it  because you’re not open to the possibility of it occurring . There were ALOT of paper ballots this time - first time in many yrs - due to COVID ; consequently , there was ALOT of potential for fraud - people voting twice , three times , people voting for other people , etc, and with no ID / signature ( because it’s a mail in) match , a lot of illegal invalid ballots were cast. Again, I don’t know if it was enough to turn the election around completely, but it sure happened , and I think it might have . 

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6 hours ago, Belo said:

that's your gauge during a pandemic, given the very different opinions of covid... rally numbers?

Well think about the it ,  pandemic was a gift. That just made it easier for them to cheat was the excuse they needed to justify all the mail in ballots something that most country's ban because of how easy it is to cheat with them .  anyway in person voting and ID laws would pretty much put a stop to all the suspicion  of cheating . There is no logical reason for Dems to block those laws except they want to be able to rig elections . 

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2 hours ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

So now we’re pretending there weren’t audits and other processes in place, including judicial decisions, to verify the legitimacy of the election? Also forgetting that much of this took place in states run by Republican legislators and executives? The verdict is out. 

In sufficient audits , I’m afraid . 

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6 hours ago, Belo said:

There is always some level of fraud. In fact they proved some republicans committed fraud this election too. To believe the election was stolen or rigged is a different statement that attacks our democracy to its core and frankly is a sore loser mentality. How Trump handled this loss removed any sense of respect I had remaining for him. That's not how I was raised, or how I raise my 3 boys.

Again, if we want to talk about big tech influence, MSM influence in voting I'm all ears. But I will not debate with anyone that there were enough votes miscounted or cast illegally that would have changed the outcome. 

 

cheers

I’ve noticed one thing : the evolution of your position ( this is a good thing btw ). At first you said there was “ no fraud “ but now , you’re admitting there was fraud . I guess you don’t have To be an idiot to believe that then , right lol . 

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1 hour ago, Northcountryman said:

I’ve noticed one thing : the evolution of your position ( this is a good thing btw ). At first you said there was “ no fraud “ but now , you’re admitting there was fraud . I guess you don’t have To be an idiot to believe that then , right lol . 

Jesus, the argument that has been long debunked is widespread voter fraud leading to inaccurate election results. This did not happen. Trump is a sore loser and he misled a gullible base, culminating in the horrific insurrection. It’s a fitting end to a lamentable presidential term.
Isolated events of voter error/fraud occur on both sides of the political divide at extremely low and negligible rates. Move on. 

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32 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

Jesus, the argument that has been long debunked is widespread voter fraud leading to inaccurate election results. This did not happen. Trump is a sore loser and he misled a gullible base, culminating in the horrific insurrection. It’s a fitting end to a lamentable presidential term.
Isolated events of voter error/fraud occur on both sides of the political divide at extremely low and negligible rates. Move on. 

https://youtu.be/sIyMnVWYrwk

 

Are you dr. Fauci ?

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2 hours ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

Jesus, the argument that has been long debunked is widespread voter fraud leading to inaccurate election results. This did not happen. Trump is a sore loser and he misled a gullible base, culminating in the horrific insurrection. It’s a fitting end to a lamentable presidential term.
Isolated events of voter error/fraud occur on both sides of the political divide at extremely low and negligible rates. Move on. 

It’s been completely debunked ? By who ? Isolated events of voter fraud ? I don’t think so . But then again, if proven , I’ll admit I’m wrong ; what about you if it’s proven otherwise ? 

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As long as the leftist main stream media keeps telling it's viewers it has all been debunked and there was no coup, their viewers will continue to swear by it.

There have been no completed audits, all the audits are being fought by the left, the courts never heard any of the cases, dismissing them on a technicality for fear of left wing riots throughout the country.  None of the thousands of sworn affidavits of witnessed fraud have been addressed and nobody has verified the validity of millions of "mail in" ballots.

Until that is done, nothing is settled and our country's election integrity is suspect.

This is not being pushed for no reason.  It is being pushed because our country's future hangs in the balance.

Hillary harassed Trump for 4 years and the left called him an illegitimate President his entire term, and nobody demanded any proof from those accusers.  Now that the truth is being demanded, the left is opposing it.

If they left truly believe Biden won in 2020, they would be supporting audits to prove it.

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16 hours ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

Jesus, the argument that has been long debunked is widespread voter fraud leading to inaccurate election results. This did not happen. Trump is a sore loser and he misled a gullible base, culminating in the horrific insurrection. It’s a fitting end to a lamentable presidential term.
Isolated events of voter error/fraud occur on both sides of the political divide at extremely low and negligible rates. Move on. 

yea right :mda: do you know how hard it would be to weed out all the fake ballots in a election with over 160million  voters ? How many people you think there are qualified to detected it anyway ?  That's why in person and only with  ID  should be the only way to vote except for people with a very good excuse and they have to ask for it.  The way things are now you will always have like half the country doubting  the results . 

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On 5/28/2021 at 5:20 PM, Northcountryman said:

I’ve noticed one thing : the evolution of your position ( this is a good thing btw ). At first you said there was “ no fraud “ but now , you’re admitting there was fraud . I guess you don’t have To be an idiot to believe that then , right lol . 

It's not an evolution, I was surprised that I had to distinguish minor non-results bearing fraud, from wide-spread real tangible "the election was stolen" fraud.

On 5/28/2021 at 7:13 PM, Versatile_Hunter said:

Jesus, the argument that has been long debunked is widespread voter fraud leading to inaccurate election results. This did not happen. Trump is a sore loser and he misled a gullible base, culminating in the horrific insurrection. It’s a fitting end to a lamentable presidential term.
Isolated events of voter error/fraud occur on both sides of the political divide at extremely low and negligible rates. Move on. 

there is literally nothing you can say that will change their mind. You could do more and more audits and they'd just claim that the audits themselves were rigged. It's the same argument the left used when trying to impeach trump twice. Despite the findings otherwise, they refused to except them because "insert reason here".

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2 hours ago, Belo said:

It's not an evolution, I was surprised that I had to distinguish minor non-results bearing fraud, from wide-spread real tangible "the election was stolen" fraud.

there is literally nothing you can say that will change their mind. You could do more and more audits and they'd just claim that the audits themselves were rigged. It's the same argument the left used when trying to impeach trump twice. Despite the findings otherwise, they refused to except them because "insert reason here".

Youre surprised? And what constitutes "non-election bearing fraud" btw? When elections are as close as they have been the vast majority of cycles, how do you know what is "non-bearing election fraud" and , as you say, "real tangible, the election was stolen fraud"?.  In several of the battleground states, vote differentials were VERY close; in Georgia, was under 10000 , wasnt it? Same with Arizona, Wisconsin and Michigan. 

This past election cycle, approximately 155 million people voted, according to statistics. If, say, 1/2 of 1%, or 0.5% of those votes were fraudulent, that would constitute 775000 votes, WAY more than enough to swing the election results completely to a different outcome.  As I've said repeatedly, I am NOT convinced entirely that  the fraud was substantial enough to effect this outcome, but I am open to it and think it may have. 

The Arizona audit is approximately 50% complete as i understand it- it remains to be seen what they will determine (or not) from that effort. 

In regards to your assertion that believers in election fraud (most likely you mean Trumpers, but i wont go so far as to put words in your mouth) will never accept the results if no significant fraud is ultimtely found, I would say that you may be right about some;  but again, as always, you tend to draw conclusions about broad segments of the populace based on your preconceived notion as to who they are and thus, how they must think .

To me, the only person who definitively and conclusively will ultimately refuse to accept the results of said audits IF SIGNIFICANT FRAUD IS , INDEED DISCOVERED is you. 

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