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Proposed crossbow legislation for 2022


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I bow hunt with a longbow , after many years hunting with the compound it just became routine to kill a buck and my interest started to wane. That was about 20 years ago and I haven’t looked back.  I make my arrows using feathers from turkeys I kill, make my own strings , hand sharpen my broadheads and the flight of arrow is so fascinating I shoot for hours and never get bored. I’m now shooting a bow I made myself with guidance from a friend that’s a Boyer. I have brought many people into traditional archery and I can’t describe the smile on someone’s face the first time they hit the bullseye it’s really magic. 

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4 hours ago, Belo said:

some day I might try traditional. My line is that with a compound I need to draw the bow, hold it on target (most guys aren't holding for more than a few minutes and deer don't always cooperate do they?), then I need to do all those things I mentioned in the previous post and then release. 

I understand the ravin is not legal in NY, but the NYCC would like to see it be. It is 6" wide. What's a rifle or shotgun 2 or 3 inches wide at most? It weighs 6.5 pounds. My ruger american .30-06 weighs 6.2 WITHOUT a scope. Other than lethal distance and sound that's literally the only difference between a crossbow and a gun. You aim through a scope and pull a trigger. https://ravincrossbows.com/product/r26x-crossbow/

What are the similarities? The trad bow, compound and crossbow all used a string to propel a bolt or arrow. So we lump them together. I don't know what a draw weight is on a trad bow, but iirc it's around 50 or 60. The issue being without a letoff one cannot hold it very long. Most NY compounds are setup with a draw weight of 50-70 and 80 or 90% letoffs. The ravin is 340lbs... yes you read that right, 340!

These are the 2 arguments repeated at nauseum for the last 10 or so years. I've said it a dozen times. I don't care if it passes, it won't change a thing for me. But like you, if I had a vote, I'd be against it for able bodied non-senior citizens. I believe it tarnishes the tradition, uniqueness and exclusivity of the archery season which was and has always been intended to be a challenge. Who sets the challenge is the next question and by and large I'd say it should be the hunter. For sure it's harder to shoot a mature buck than it is to shoot a button. It's generally harder to spot and stalk, it's generally hard to hunt public land. A hunter can decide for him or herself what their challenge should be, but the state needs to set a bar. It's why they broke up archery and firearm and muzzleloader. They set a bar and now that bar is becoming blurry because many want an easier road to success. 

Good argument and traditional archers  used that to try and keep compounds out and traditional bows could go up to 150 lbs or.more..  people who use heavy pulls actually change their bone structure..   the only difference  is  most bows need to be drawnjust before shot  compounds do not.. the speed  is negated by shorness of arrow on a crossbow and an compound will actually have more kenetic energy down range..  the most important thing is they kill the exactly the same way and have the same aiming points.  Thats why the myth of its just like a gun needs to end..  i have no problems with restrictions on crossbows  and feel  they should of been left out of this bill.  If your using a xbow in ny now it should be nys legal already.. 

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Don C really wrote it out well. Believe it or not, I have never even shot a crossbow. As long as I can draw my bow, they hold no interest for me. I just enjoy the whole killing a deer with a bow. I don't even get excited killing a deer with a rifle. 

I enjoy the excitement and frustration of hunting with a bow. I do use pins, a peep, and release, so I don't claim to be hunting primitive. It's just what is fun for me. Most of my buddies use crossbows, and some of them love them, and a couple of them hate them. But, they all agree that they can shoot 40-50 yards with ease if they have the open space in the woods or fields to do it. It doesn't bother me a bit. Everyone deserves to enjoy hunting in their own way.

 

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16 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

 I own land in both ends of the state and yes I hunt both at times. The public land is much more of a challenge and carries more of the class of Whitetails I chase.    The changes nothing to the fact that many landowners will do whatever it takes to make sure their hunting properties remain to the standards they bought them for. And if that entails making their own decisions on when and where harvests are needed then their ok with that. Right or wrong it’s just the way it is. 

I'm curious what survey data or evidence you have to support this. A few friends or acquaintances that think like you does not give you the right to say "most land owners". It's like going to a republican convention and talking with everyone there and then being shocked that some people think differently. 

The barstool is not indicative of the broad feel throughout the state from The Adirondacks to Long Island and over to the falls. 

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16 hours ago, stubborn1VT said:

Umm... the one I quoted?  I think you have way too much time on your hands.  Maybe more getting up and turkey hunting and less circular arguments on the internet?  Just a thought.  

I checked on the thread.  I'm out.  Have fun.

I have a pretty demanding job that doesn't allow for a lot of weekday turkey hunting and with kids sports on the weekends that is tough too. I like to check out of work from time to time to reset and this is where I go.

So no answer or response to any of my points? got it. 

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14 hours ago, G-Man said:

Good argument and traditional archers  used that to try and keep compounds out and traditional bows could go up to 150 lbs or.more..  people who use heavy pulls actually change their bone structure..   the only difference  is  most bows need to be drawnjust before shot  compounds do not.. the speed  is negated by shorness of arrow on a crossbow and an compound will actually have more kenetic energy down range..  the most important thing is they kill the exactly the same way and have the same aiming points.  Thats why the myth of its just like a gun needs to end..  i have no problems with restrictions on crossbows  and feel  they should of been left out of this bill.  If your using a xbow in ny now it should be nys legal already.. 

I think the term cross-gun (which I've used to troll) is for sure incorrect. It's just like a gun has some merit to it though. There are similarities and there and differences. I think this is where the air-bow argument comes in and I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts here.

It shoots a bolt, propelled by air (not string), but to your point the air bow kills the same and has the same aiming point as a crossbow. It doesn't use gunpowder so it's not a firearm. What is the airbow? Shares the same trigger and scope as a crossbow. 

Genuine question here and not trolling I swear. 

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13 hours ago, Belo said:

I'm curious what survey data or evidence you have to support this. A few friends or acquaintances that think like you does not give you the right to say "most land owners". It's like going to a republican convention and talking with everyone there and then being shocked that some people think differently. 

The barstool is not indicative of the broad feel throughout the state from The Adirondacks to Long Island and over to the falls. 

  I believe if you reread the words written it says… many landowners… and I can tell you for a fact that the many that I know are at both ends of the state and are part of a group of landowners with many acres involved. And you would be hard pressed to find better all around hunting grounds. 

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18 hours ago, Belo said:

I think the term cross-gun (which I've used to troll) is for sure incorrect. It's just like a gun has some merit to it though. There are similarities and there and differences. I think this is where the air-bow argument comes in and I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts here.

It shoots a bolt, propelled by air (not string), but to your point the air bow kills the same and has the same aiming point as a crossbow. It doesn't use gunpowder so it's not a firearm. What is the airbow? Shares the same trigger and scope as a crossbow. 

Genuine question here and not trolling I swear. 

1st scopes are avalable for bows ( you can look them up as are automatic range finders) any one using a release  is using a trigger  so thise points are invalid ( junt beacise you dont want to spend money on them dose not make them not exist.

Air guns/crossguns uses a propellant , doenst have to be explosive.  Its also the reason why big bore air rifles are not legal in ny. Its not propelled by a string like crossbow nor any bow ( there is a reason bow is included in  word crossbow  its where energy is stored in limbs) again i  like the restriction on crossbows and have no issue with them if your hunting in nys now with one it should be nys legal period. 

As for the stock yep its different.  But the horizontal position and front heavy nature makes them a challange to hunt with in  thick cover or leaning out and around trees or stands. They are heavy,compared to bows as well.  And as you see every year  peoples xbows exploder fairly regularly as they keep them cocked so long , 4 hours are most manufacturers recomendations.  I have bows that are decades old  original strings and cables  no issues,  my crosbows have cables and strings replaced alredy and are only a few years old. Wear is much higher on crossbows.  A gun well i have some a century old and  they work as intended still .

Just my experiances and my.opinion.  

My only hope is an archery course will be required not grand fathered in.  So hunter learn where to aim , track , and sucessfully kill  animal humanly.   The idea they are a gun leads to high shoulder,neck, ass, and frontal shots by those inexperianced and uneducated using them.  Fortunately everyone i know that uses a crossbow  was also an archer but ive seen  others who have no clue wounding deer cause they aim wrong, arrow drifts on long shots in wind,ect...

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5 hours ago, G-Man said:

1st scopes are avalable for bows ( you can look them up as are automatic range finders) any one using a release  is using a trigger  so thise points are invalid ( junt beacise you dont want to spend money on them dose not make them not exist.

Air guns/crossguns uses a propellant , doenst have to be explosive.  Its also the reason why big bore air rifles are not legal in ny. Its not propelled by a string like crossbow nor any bow ( there is a reason bow is included in  word crossbow  its where energy is stored in limbs) again i  like the restriction on crossbows and have no issue with them if your hunting in nys now with one it should be nys legal period. 

As for the stock yep its different.  But the horizontal position and front heavy nature makes them a challange to hunt with in  thick cover or leaning out and around trees or stands. They are heavy,compared to bows as well.  And as you see every year  peoples xbows exploder fairly regularly as they keep them cocked so long , 4 hours are most manufacturers recomendations.  I have bows that are decades old  original strings and cables  no issues,  my crosbows have cables and strings replaced alredy and are only a few years old. Wear is much higher on crossbows.  A gun well i have some a century old and  they work as intended still .

Just my experiances and my.opinion.  

My only hope is an archery course will be required not grand fathered in.  So hunter learn where to aim , track , and sucessfully kill  animal humanly.   The idea they are a gun leads to high shoulder,neck, ass, and frontal shots by those inexperianced and uneducated using them.  Fortunately everyone i know that uses a crossbow  was also an archer but ive seen  others who have no clue wounding deer cause they aim wrong, arrow drifts on long shots in wind,ect...

I don't think there's an average or serious hunter that puts a scope on their bow, and I'm aware of the auto-range finders. I was a little tempted to get one but honestly I don't hunt many fields so I'm rarely guessing what distance they're at. I still see a bow site and crossbow scope as very different in many ways. 

"they're heavy" is a fallacy that I disproved earlier in this thread as well as width. If you're willing to spend the money, there are options out there to get around this.

Outside of gun season, I can't recall the last time I've hunted for over 4 hours and if I had to, I can't imgine it'd be hard to uncock and recock my bow. Heck I do several practice draws when I feel myself getting cold, this wouldn't be any different. 

Fair rebuttal and I appreciate you having a positive discussion

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11 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

  I believe if you reread the words written it says… many landowners… and I can tell you for a fact that the many that I know are at both ends of the state and are part of a group of landowners with many acres involved. And you would be hard pressed to find better all around hunting grounds. 

so you know a few guys that have big chunks of land... and shocking, because they have big chunks, these pieces of land are deer paradise?

got it. 

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56 minutes ago, Belo said:

so you know a few guys that have big chunks of land... and shocking, because they have big chunks, these pieces of land are deer paradise?

got it. 

Wrong again. These properties are a wildlife paradise. They don’t have vermin running rampant so they actually still even have small game and game birds. They say god made all creatures equally but when it comes to property that’s built and Maintained for the sportsman there are many creatures that are useless and must be dealt with regardless of where or when. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Belo said:

I don't think there's an average or serious hunter that puts a scope on their bow, and I'm aware of the auto-range finders. I was a little tempted to get one but honestly I don't hunt many fields so I'm rarely guessing what distance they're at. I still see a bow site and crossbow scope as very different in many ways. 

"they're heavy" is a fallacy that I disproved earlier in this thread as well as width. If you're willing to spend the money, there are options out there to get around this.

Outside of gun season, I can't recall the last time I've hunted for over 4 hours and if I had to, I can't imgine it'd be hard to uncock and recock my bow. Heck I do several practice draws when I feel myself getting cold, this wouldn't be any different. 

Fair rebuttal and I appreciate you having a positive discussion

I dont know any serious hunter that would buy a non nys compliant x bow let alone spend 2k plus on one.

The width is controlled by regulations. and weight they weigh a lot in comparison to a compound,  point of ballance  is a better statement.  

I am aware for the $2500 plus x bows but they are not nys compliant.  So  that point for now  is moot. 

As i siad i habe no problem with the restriction on pull and limb width, if anyone is hunting x bow in nys they should have a nus compliant x bow already.

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8 hours ago, G-Man said:

1st scopes are avalable for bows ( you can look them up as are automatic range finders) any one using a release  is using a trigger  so thise points are invalid ( junt beacise you dont want to spend money on them dose not make them not exist.

Air guns/crossguns uses a propellant , doenst have to be explosive.  Its also the reason why big bore air rifles are not legal in ny. Its not propelled by a string like crossbow nor any bow ( there is a reason bow is included in  word crossbow  its where energy is stored in limbs) again i  like the restriction on crossbows and have no issue with them if your hunting in nys now with one it should be nys legal period. 

As for the stock yep its different.  But the horizontal position and front heavy nature makes them a challange to hunt with in  thick cover or leaning out and around trees or stands. They are heavy,compared to bows as well.  And as you see every year  peoples xbows exploder fairly regularly as they keep them cocked so long , 4 hours are most manufacturers recomendations.  I have bows that are decades old  original strings and cables  no issues,  my crosbows have cables and strings replaced alredy and are only a few years old. Wear is much higher on crossbows.  A gun well i have some a century old and  they work as intended still .

Just my experiances and my.opinion.  

My only hope is an archery course will be required not grand fathered in.  So hunter learn where to aim , track , and sucessfully kill  animal humanly.   The idea they are a gun leads to high shoulder,neck, ass, and frontal shots by those inexperianced and uneducated using them.  Fortunately everyone i know that uses a crossbow  was also an archer but ive seen  others who have no clue wounding deer cause they aim wrong, arrow drifts on long shots in wind,ect...

You can spin it anyway you want,a crossbow is nothing like a modern compound.

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4 hours ago, land 1 said:

And modern day compounds are nothing like the tradtional long bow or recurve archery started with...

Technology has improved . It's still held in one hand and drawn with the other when  it gets shot . No rest ,no scope ,no cocking device ,no stock ,no ability to leave at full draw until it needs to be fired.  

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I wasnt asking to compare xbow with compound. You did kindly pointed out very little in common between tradtional and todays compound so modern day bow draw with one hand and held with one hand,,, those are the two things todays bow has in common with traditional. SO many differences 

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17 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

You can spin it anyway you want,a crossbow is nothing like a modern compound.

They are in fact just horizontal compounds with a draw lock.  Thats it . Same cams thicker shorter limbs.. same cables, cable guards ect ..  its right in front of you. you just dont look.  

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2 minutes ago, G-Man said:

They are in fact just horizontal compounds with a draw lock.  Thats it . Same cams thicker shorter limbs.. same cables, cable guards ect ..  its right in front of you. you just dont look.  

The cupcakes (compound only users who are anti-crossbow) all wear the same blinders.  

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12 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

Technology has improved . It's still held in one hand and drawn with the other when  it gets shot . No rest ,no scope ,no cocking device ,no stock ,no ability to leave at full draw until it needs to be fired.  

Have draw locks available.  Shot with 2 hands one needs to pull trigger same as a release.  Same just can't draw and lock early same unless you have a draw lock.  But with 90% let of you can draw and hold for many minutes with minimal poundage , ive seen a bow held back by just the weight of the rise..    and for  a rest you can use a shooting stick on the stabilizer ahead of the riser if you wanted .

So ......

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1 minute ago, wolc123 said:

The cupcakes (compound only users who are anti-crossbow) all wear the same blinders.  

I dont call them cupcakes , they just dont want others in the woods that may get their deer.. they will say essence of the sport but use every tech advantage they can..  imo the only ones that got screwed are traditional archers they should have the 2 prime rut weeks alone, if any one is truly fore the essence of the sport they would agree.

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