RTGobbler

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why is the hunt ruined? I never understood getting mad at other people(or coyotes, or whatever) walking though and ruining a hunt or spot. In places where this type of thing is common deer are used to it, and places where it is not common deer still often don't care. I have had deer come to spots after people or coyotes were in the same area. In any case, being in the woods is about being in the woods, and more importantly not at a work.

Welcome!

Welcome!

We do an auction type contest. Guy stands up, tells everyone what scouting they have done, where they are headed, what the gun they have, etc. Then everyone bids on the person. They pot is split between the hunter who gets the largest buck on opening day and the person that bought them. There are some bonus payouts for bears and coyotes too. In the end its a good time had by all.

One of the big issues in areas like 3A is the habitat. I hunt the eastern side if blackhead mtn, and as someone already said its old growth forest and there its not very much food for a large number of deer. The last few years have been very tough hunting. Selective logging would be a very good thing for those herds. The last logging was 20yrs ago, and a lot of the under brush that came from it has matured. The deer populations seemed to fair better after the logging. What's interesting to me is that we seem to be seeing less deer. And the deer we see are doe (no dmp there). Don't think that is because of AR, it its more habitat and some very rough weather the last few years. But its interesting to think if AR will actually help long term. Maybe getting the buck/doe ratio fixed would be better? I don't care much about having AR, we had voluntary AR for a few years better it was law and have no issue passing in a smaller deer. I'm still going to busy my butt up that mountain in the pitch dark. But I can say what used be a standing room only hunting camp is now sporting a lot of leg room. Takes a special guy or gal to want to hike 2 miles in and up a thousand feet just to pass on the doe and small antlered deer they might see.

I've felt the same way the last few days. Think it mostly has to do with not seeing deer for me. Saw deer on camera and in the woods, and passed on a few deer in October. November has been a burst though, until this morning I had not seen a deer since the Sunday of opening weekend. Now that I saw one I feel better. Same thing happens to me when I stop getting birds in the spring. Sometimes you just have to grind it out.

In the woods at 6, top of the tree at 6:15. Just about to pull my gun and gear up when I hear it. Turn to see a deer coming right from where I just came in. Tail was flagged but not running, just a slow walk. So not sure if it saw, heard, winded me, or what. Came under the stand by about 15 yards, but still couldn't tell buck or doe. At least that's a good start to the day! Now I'm just surrounded by an army of squirrels.

Took a day off to accomplish some chores and spend a day with the wife. After 3 days in the woods dusk to dark she says she misses me. Tried a new spot yesterday with a buddy and saw some decent sign. Another guy up the ridge from us, maybe .25 mile, shot a doe. Took tomorrow off to hunt, so that will be a full day in the woods. Good luck everyone.

Trying a different spot tonight. Got tricked by a wise buck last year in this spot. He stayed bedded down behind a downed tree for about 2 hours while I was sitting 40 yrds away. As soon as I got up to walk out and turned my back he got up and walked in the opposite direction. I only caught sight off him because I tbd to check my back trail. Never had anything better than an backdoor shot on him, and never saw him again.

Yes, during early bow it was almost dangerous to sit there, knocked on the head with them very 5 minutes. Saw lots of deer during bow from the tree and on camera, and the last few seasons have seen a lot of deer in this spot too. Last two weeks however have been very very quiet. Behind me is a ridge/ledge, what your seeing is not rock wall but part of the rocks sticking out. There is a funnel coming off that ridge to my left out of the picture, and another on the ridge coming out of a lower spot.

Cold, windy, and very loud this morning. Even the squirrels sound like Godzilla running through the woods.

I think that would help some places, and should be part of whatever happens. I just don't know how much it will help places where the harvest is already low.

Going to be out in the stand from dawn until around 9:30ish. Then off to the MIL's for dinner. For some reason I have always loved the turkey day hunt, not sure why.

A lot of good points flying around here, but no one is a solution. Smaller and better managed WMUs is a good idea, but if there is poor habitat in the area then the populations on those WMUs make never change. You need to manage the populations and the habitats together. In NY there is a huge amount of state and federally owned land, approximately 11 million acres and 37% of the state*. Other states, like Ohio. Illinois, Iowa all have less that 3%. This means the private owners have the ability to control how the land is used and practice QDM on their own. In NY however there is much more land controlled by the state, which means it is the states responsibility to maintain it and take actions (such as logging) to improve that habitat. The areas that people are seeing less deer are often the places where, in my opinion, the state has dropped the ball. As many people said, I am not going to stop hunting 3A and hiking 3 or so miles and picking up 1500 feet of elevation. I know going in I am not going to see many deer, and if I do I know it will be a special day. I am happy with the woodpeckers, bears, falcons, etc. But what I do not want to see, is that taken away because the DEC decided to take the easy route and limit tags and not at all address the habitat. * Numbers are from 1995. http://www.nrcm.org/documents/publiclandownership.pdf

Catskill Hunter, interestingly I think we have seen the opposite in our area (Blackhead Mtn). In recent years it seems to have been a drop in deer. You still get an occasional bruiser, but mostly doe and small antlered deer. This is in contrast to 10-20 years ago where there would be many more deer taken and see through out the season. The last few years have been very poor seasons for harvesting deer up there, but I think that can have a lot of relation to the weather. Between the winter storms taking down trees, early warm ups in the spring followed by harsh freezes, and poor mast crop that has to play a huge role. Some of the older guys claim that when all the land left private hands, and went to the state the downfall started because no one was managing the land anymore. But even our two experiences, both in the same WMU are different which goes back to my thought that there is no one answer for every location. Also we need to look at the long term success of the population as well. Yes, we might be seeing better or worse deer in the last 2 or 3 years, but what is the trend for the last 10, 15, or 20? I don't have that data, but the DEC should. We cannot use AR, or any other tool, as a short term solution just to get bigger antlers. In the end I think AR might not be the best answer for any place. I am not sure (from maybe not fully understanding) how it will help the deer population as a whole. Seems short sighted and trophy based to me. I might prefer a 1 buck rule, or maybe a 1 buck 1 doe rule to limit the taking of many bucks, but still giving the hunter opportunities for hunting, or something else we haven't even thought of . Either way DEC needs to look at each WMU and decide what the answer is for creating a healthy and stable deer population (both bucks and does).

Really I do not think there is not a single answer for this problem. Each WMU needs to have its own policies. I have hunted down state (Westchester, Orange), the mountain Catskills (Greene), the low Catskills (Delaware, Dutchess) and the Adirondacks. All of these places have completely different deer populations, and habitats. You cannot make a single policy that is good for all of them, you can only have a policy that is poor for all. In the mountains of the Catskills where I have spent most of my hunting time there are very few deer, so few that if you SEE antlers it is an accomplishment. In the last few years our camp has taken 2 to 3 bucks between 20 or so guys for all seasons (bow, rifle, late bow/muzzleloader). But we have seen countless doe already this season. So how do you tell someone who is lucky to see antlers once in 5 years they have to count before shooting? I think that is tough. There are also no DMP's in 3A and I sometimes wonder if the large number does does not hurt the population as a whole. We have had a voluntary 3-pt rule out of camp for a number of years now, and then the DEC made it mandatory in 3A. I can say we have not see much improvement in the deer. I think this comes down to nutrition and habitat, more than antler restrictions. These forests are old growth with very little browse, so if you get a bad mast crop year the deer will struggle. The deer also have less cover to hide in with old growth forests. I wonder if the DEC might be better off selectively logging parts of the older growth forests to encourage low browse food and good cover. We have started with a number of acres of food plots at the base of the mountains, but a few acres of food plot for thousands of acres of forest does not help much. In the 3P area its different. I have passed on a number of different small bucks during bow and rifle season, and the first doe I see will be in the freezer. I might take a nice six, but even without the antler restrictions I am going to look for a better deer. I seen more deer here in a season then in 5 years up in 3A. This means my approach to hunting is different, and how I choose what to shoot and what not to shoot. In short the rules for 3P would not help 3A (and vice versa) and they certainly would not work for WNY and the Adirondacks. The DEC should be worrying about making the deer population thrive, not the nWhy spend te umber of points on a deers head. If the population thrives with proper population management, proper habitat management, and nutrition management then the antlers will follow. They should worry about deer management, not antler management. As for the idea that the season should be shorter, I am not sure that is a good idea. Our sport and passion is one that is on the decline. By limiting access to the sport even more I worry that it will discourage people from getting out in the woods. Just my 0.006 cents

Hi Everyone, Just a new member saying hello. Been hunting in NY for most of my life, mostly in 3A for the last 20 years and recently back in the 3P area(started out down here). Spend a lot of time spring turkey hunting in 3A for mountain birds, and then in the fall up in a tree deer hunting. Used to do a lot of bird hunting (woodcock, grouse, pheasants) when I was younger and had a great GSP. Been on a few forums that used to be good and then turned bad, but I look forward to talking to you all. -RTGobbler