Jaeger

Hi guys, got to vent. I ordered a gun of a lifetime custom lever action from a prominent local manufacture. I tallied up 5 figures worth of special features. They first produced the gun with sub par color case hardening. We agree they would polish it off. I would be paying for that and I added engraving with a bugling elk on it, it is a really big bore gun, to the addition of several thousand more to the price. They finished the second version of the gun in September. They engraved the wrong animal! Put the standard (to that pattern) deer on it rather than the bugling elk I had ordered. I then had a lengthy conversation with the sales rep, general manager and head gunsmith of this supposedly highly respected custom gun firm. They admitted it was their mistake and offered to build me a completely new gun. The sales rep and GM literally signed and dated an image of the bugling elk to be engraved on the new gun. A few days later, I was told they were going to reuse some parts, mainly the stocks. I copied the following from my post on another site as I am to angry to retype it. Now, 2 months later I get an email with a different elk than was signed off on, asking for approval of this new image. Then, minutes later I got an email saying they weren't sure of what version of the #10 Winchester pattern they should use for the engraving and included two pencil sketches. Gentlemen, they had already produced the first receiver with the correct, perfect #10 engraving on the receiver (except for the wrong animal image) and with the correct little extras on the barrel, lever and hammer. I had chosen the pattern directly from THEIR OWN WEBSITE pic in their gun gallery (it's still there). I am completely exasperated, frustrated and angry with this whole process. They had everything they needed in their files and on their own website! I can't say I'm speechless (I'm going on too much for that to be true) but I feel that way. It is like they are paying no attention to what we discussed, hammered out after their last engraving mistake and signed off on. Like we're starting all over again. Please convince me to pull the plug. I really wanted this gun, put a lot of time, effort and heart into planning it and already loaded ammo in expectation. I just don't have enough hair left to pull out. Jaeger

Looks great. The concept of absorption/reflection the same as occurs in nature is what the old King of the Mountain touted for their wool camo. The theory there was that animal fur (specifically natural wool) reflects and absorbs light in a way to render prey invisible, relatively, to predators. Looks like you've built on that base concept by adding realistic or photographicly accurate patterns! Can't wait to see how your products are received by the hunting community! Best of luck.

Happy Birthday G.....Hope you're out enjoying it, can read this stuff later, Ha!!

You may not have been asked but isn't that begging the question? That's thinking in the wrong direction. If you want a law changed or just explained you cannot wait until they come to you and ask. If you want it changed, then the obligation is on you to speak up, write, call, do something. Our country's system is based on public participation, waiting for them to come to you is not how it works. (Rack Attack, using "you" generally, not directly at you personally, people hate it when I say "one" should...etc.) As far as this threads' main topic, law breaking (and forum rule breaking, we don't need your attempt to appear macho with the abbreviated curses), it is everyone's obligation to challenge laws if you disagree with them. Sometime even by breaking them. But that is a far cry from just breaking the rules/laws so you can appear "bad" or "tough" or a law breaking rebel. That accomplishes nothing but getting what you want and taking the risk. If you're comfortable with that, thank you for letting us know what kind of person you are. For me, I stick to the rules. It's a gut thing that I was raised with. And yes, I did steal some candy as a kid, 50' down the street I turned around and went back and paid for it. Call me a ninny, wimp what have you. I felt better in my gut and at the end of the day, that's what counts to me. Knowing I did the right thing.

Doc, thak you for bringing this up, I see it as well. Let's hope this thread remains true to your post and we can discuss it without devolving into the usual fights and name calling. I don't know about you, but I also sometimes feel like I (and others) demand/DESERVE more time with a favorite or new tool than others (usually when I try and like a new method with a new tool.) And then I swing back to wanting sufficient time with my gun, resent the intrusion into what was the original or standard season and rail against the very thing I had just tried. I do get angry when one segment of the hunting community, be it gun, bow, x-bow, small game vs large game hunters, try (and often succeed) to expand "their" season at the expense of others. Especially when the "others" season came or was established first and the "new comers" try to take part of it away for themselves. This can be seen in the "special early and late" seasons for muzzleloaders and bow. Both seasons were originally established as primitive weapon seasons to augment the regular season and now have become primary seasons due to the advancement of technologies in each. And then, while technology advances, some segments want to "freeze" the evolution (here compound hunters of which I am one against the crossbow also of which I am one). Looking to other states, some blackpower in-lines, sight systems and powders, substitute and smokeless, have been banned, stopping the evolution of that arms use at a certain point. Further, some of this can be attributed to the allocation of our deer herds through deer management permits, antler restrictions, etc. For example, I really do not like the fact that a youth can harvest any 3" on one side buck for I think it is 4 years? 12-16yrs old, before they have to follow the antler restriction rules. I fully understand the need for youth recruitment (and fully support the Columbus day weekend deer and early pheasant hunts) but feel really bad for the older 17yrs+ hunter, women and men getting into hunting at a later stage of life, 20's 30' 40'setc. and have to sit and watch the same non AR eligible buck walk by year after year before they can take the first buck of their lives (let them take that first non-AR buck, report it and then have to comply). So, having gotten pretty far down the line with this, Yes I sometimes do feel the "its my deer" syndrome preceding and even encroaching into the regular season at both ends. And the same things can be said for the big game vs small game/turkey seasons. Neither is more important than the other. Some of those seasons are the "most important" season to some of us be it deer hunters, turkey hunters, gun dog owners, etc. I guess I am long winded (Very) but hope this is the type of response and discussion you were looking for and that I did not go too far afield. I too get a little selfish about "my deer" and "my season" and do not know what we all can do together (other than respect each other and share equally before we lose it all) to maintain a happy balance and stop all the territorial bickering. Please let's keep this thread a polite and rational discussion as Doc wanted it.

I don't know if it is due to last years brutal winter or the relatively new antler restrictions, but all our trail cams are getting is an uncharacteristically small sampling of does this year and not a single buck (highly unusual) to date. The coyotes are also a mainstay in our pics. We've heard reports of bucks a valley over or so. We (4 of us) hunt a small amount of our landlords private land (270 acres) with uncooperative citidiots in the seasonal camp (100 acres) next to us. So.....Does anyone have any thought on us using a lot of well spaced artificial scrapes/doe estrus scents (much more than normal) to attempt to pull some bucks into our hunting property? I usually wouldn't overdue it, but for this single season we feel something extra is needed to pull 'em in. Any thoughts?

Bad weather, my synthetic stocked Sako 338 Fed with the Leupold VX-6 and 200 gr woodleighs. Good weather, my new (to me) 1971 Winchester 94 30-30 with williams FP peep and 150 grain core-lockets. Hun! just realized I'll be taking a synthetic stock but scope in bad weather and a wood stock but peep in good. Something seems backwards???

Had a solo in front of us yesterday, just out walking not hunting. Stamford/Harpersfield area of NW Catskills.

I did say "most", meaning Pyrodex, tripple seven, white hots. The Blackhorn 209 is the exception, but very hard to find. I'm ordering some through Graf & Sons, they have a good haz mat deal this month.

The new Thompson Center Strikes in black or camo synthetic are great choices. Very easy to clean. Very quiet hammer mechanism. Understand, most black powder substitutes will "eat" even a stainless steel barrel if not kept spotlessly clean.

If they are that close the only reliable solution is an accurate survey with boundaries marked, usually with surveyor pins at the corners and flagging along the lines. Town tax maps are NOT reliable, mine showed a small 2 acre square projecting into the adjacent property I thought I owned when actually it protruded into mine, it was his extra two acres not mine as shown on town tax map. My surveyor came up with an extra 3 1/2 acres along an old highway (1800's) that was mine an I didn't know it. My landlord just got taxed on an extra 20 acres he didn't know he had (owns 670) when an adjacent landowner had his surveyed. The "apps" use town tax maps not rod and chain property deed descriptions so they are just as inaccurate when your getting down to 2-10 acres of adjoining lands or so. Have it surveyed, "blaze" the trees along the flagged lines or put in post or stakes where no trees exist (I pounded in those green metal fence posts you get at TSC). And be prepared to show the survey to adjoining landowners, plenty of people "think" they know their lines, but the deeds are the final word.

I stand corrected. Was in the Vet's office the other day and saw a poster that said 4 types of ticks, including both the deer and dog ticks, carry the lyme virus. That's different from the 80's when I got the shots, then they said it was just the deer ticks that carried the lyme virus. Live and learn.

Is the wooltimate machine washable? Does it shrink? I've been using older King of the Mountain "washable wool" and unless I'm real careful, it shrinks, a lot!! Also use Johnson woolen mills stuff and can't wash it till after season, Whew ee!!! Just wondering about the Wooltimate.

Hey Bill, I'm over in 4O harpersfield just north east of you and all the does are just hanging around like its mid-summer. No signs of any bucks yet.

The laid up old stone well from the old homestead on my old farm. I was looking around the ruins of the old foundation and Schatz found the well, stood right on top of it!

So this is me, I hit attach a file and it up loaded. Don't know where it will appear tho'!! I'm the one with out the collars. The better looking one is Schatz.

First, don't get too worried about going it alone. I come from a non-hunting family and had to learn the ropes all by myself until I was much older. I had great fun doing it and it gives me great satisfaction that I learned on my own. I also know that you need to be very careful about who you get to mentor you. Many very friendly people who call themselves "hunters" scoff at the rules and could lead you astray. Had I gotten my "education" where I now live, I too would probably become a scofflaw. Things are pretty loosey goosey up here and I don't agree with them or hunt that way. What I'm getting at is by reading and taking the DEC courses it's hard to develop bad habits. Unlike my day, these days there is a wealth of information available on line. Like here, read the posts and you'll get a good idea of how to behave. Get to know how people hunt before really linking up with them. Generally, older hunters who have no need to prove themselves are a better bet. There's a recent thread the past two days that shows a self described "newbie" with an unjustified handle (he made a bad shot) who wanted a deer, shot after legal (and ethical) time and is now paying for it. If you're uncomfortable at any time with how your "mentor" or "new friends" are hunting or ignoring the rules, change them. Just my experience.

There are several DSI members on LI, call them.

I had a husky that would hide in the bath tub ever time we had a thunderstorm. I used the Masters Voice gun fire CD to condition Schatz when she was a pup, they have a cd for older dogs as well, and now she is fine.

A garmin Rhino may be the easiest way to share coordinates with others while in the woods, but both of you would need to have them.

Actually diplomat, I would hunt the field edge when pheasant hunting and sometimes 20-30 yards inside. When hunting in a group we usually have someone on each edge of the field. Pheasants are runners, they prefer to run before being forced to fly (which is why some say they can ruin a good pointing dog, need flushing dogs). A dog will push the birds right out of the field and we get many crossing that 5-10 yard grassy gap between whatever is planted in the field and the woods, and believe me they know to run into the woods. So, your right. Set up in a good spot and let them drive deer to you, these deer wont be spooked just moved. Remember bird hunting in a group is a loud, fun activity that is practiced differently than quiet deer hunting. I had a good deer stalk spoiled down in the slide mountain area when a little old lady in white sneakers and walking stick came blasting past me on my stalk! 1/2 mile from the nearest trail and she never knew I was there! Public land can be a trial at times!! Glad to hear you're taking it in stride.

So maybe to both of you, they didn't see you. Bow hunters work hard at being invisible.

Quick aside. Its my understanding that the large dog ticks do not carry the lyme disease only the tiny deer ticks. If your bloated tick was about 1/4-13/4 inch fat it was a non-carrying dog tick. I may not be using the correct terms but the deer ticks that carry the lyme disease are about the size of a pin head and the much larger dog ticks (the kind we easily see on ourselves) are about 1/8 round both before bloating. That being said, when I was a kid in southold, the man who lived in front of use died from Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever he got from a dog tick on his big old basset hound. So the bigger dog ticks are still carries of many diseases, some more severe than lyme.

Use 'em on top and bottom of toes, get real cold feet. Use the stick on body pads over my kidneys as well.

I guess all butchers are different and some get overwhelmed during the peak of deer season. I used to take them to the local deer processor, now I do not because: 1. I don't think I get all my own meat. I know how and when my animal is shot and don't wan't someone else's. 2. A buddy showed me how to handle my own and in a fashion that does not require an all night scramble to get it all processed at once. Real reason: Our local butcher has a clipboard signup list inside his front door with a list of non-hunting people wanting venison, a whole lot of people on this list and the meat has to come from somewhere/someones deer. May be legit but raises the question. The last deer I took to them weighed 175lbs field dressed (still have the scale with the weight marker in place, keep it as a "trophy" of sorts). It was a huge doe off my farm. I got back a box of 35lbs of meat and that didn't seem right. (The doe was hit in the head not the body and not on purpose) But based on what you guys say, maybe 35lbs was about right, I just felt like I was cheated, so now I do my own.