Modern hillbilly

I had similar thoughts for some lever guns. I always thought a 45-70 would be cool shooting copper, but the loss of weight(energy) and bullet selection sucks. I was looking at these researching https://cuttingedgebullets.com/308-165gr-mth-match-tactical-hunting They try to prevent copper fouling and loss of accuracy (gas blowby)through that banding process. I wonder how bad other commercial copper bullets foul. Some barrels being tighter than others I can imagine their lack of proper sizing is an issue. They too mention a faster twist rate. I wonder how many people have bad experience with slower twists.

This doesn't make sense. Is it a poor attempt at being sarcastic but not understanding what's being talked talked about? I wasn't talking about throat erosion while developing loads, it's the erosion between seasons or on the off season through thousands of rounds. Again lead vs non lead and my reason for not using it. Nothing about consistently getting deer either.

Interesting accuracy results. Did you happen to chrono them? I'm sure terminally they will do just fine. I've thought about copper just to see it's terminal ballistics but won't use it. 2 inches at 100. 4 at 200 etc. Mix in field conditions and shooter error, I would personally keep those shots inside 150. I might as well go open sight lever gun... That's the other huge issue going with copper, most rifles are designed for lead core. Free bore and twist rate will probably have to change to make copper shoot.(that's why you can't find "heavy" copper who wants to be limited by light bullets?) Along with a major manufacturing change to make mass produced copper bullets half consistent. Most people already have problems shooting heavier lead fitting to mag length. Retained velocity is another concern, from my reading copper needs that velocity to expand(lead can pencil too) Which retained velocity is also an issue again with current use rifles freebore limits bullet weight limiting down range performance. Just looking quick the 308 winchester "deer session xp" has a measly BC of.387 . Using a moderate range of 300 yards using reviewed groups of 2" it groups 6 inches at 300 a quick and dirty wind drift calculation puts it at 6 inches with an 8mph crosswind. I surely would not shoot at that range with that load. Personally I want my hunting ammunition to hold a true 1/2" not internet sniper 1/2. If conditions are bad(snow wind numb fingers) I know I can hold 1 moa with it. (I plow a double wide football field area and shoot all winter in all conditions further than my claimed 300 yard example) I would venture to guess not even including a good dope most hunters would probably completely miss a deer under these external ballistic conditions and normal weather conditions at that range. I'm also not going to develop a load at +$80 a box of 100. Throat erosion would change year to year making it highly cost prohibited having to redevelop or tweak each year.....Unless I got a dedicated deer rifle but I've enjoyed developing different loads for different rifles this year and consider it part of the hunt. 10 or so years ago I looked into custom copper bullets because of their miraculous BC. Doing research They were a flop actual bc, price, availability... consistentcy ...consistentcy = accuracy.. such a long bullet needs more rear weight....Not to mention a custom barrel and custom reamer to just shoot them. Then the added velocity shortening barrel life ...

Bravo! Changing hearts and minds then insinuate and pass judgement when met with questions and facts that don't align with your scripture. Ahh insinuation...let me try....Maybe you want to burn down my city? Wear black and beat some people who don't agree? I'm not sure what your rambling about with conservation or conspericies where did anybody say that?

Sorry to hear. I can't imagine losing both parents in such a short time. I lost my mom last year a week and a half before my first son was born and 3 days before my birthday. Its hard losing someone who helped shape you.

Seems Dems are abandoning their previous "logic" and now want you to show up at the polls? https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN25F1BQ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/democrats-mail-voting-pivot-838522b7-8dac-42b4-a566-1ba93818654d.html

I'm not crapping on you for repping the organization, but you are peddling it. I guess I shouldn't expect people to know that much about something they care to share or promote. I'm not trying to attack you, I guess I thought you knew more about it than you did. I understand you want to promote bird protections and that's a good thing. I didn't find it threatening at all do you? Why would you think that? More one sided and factually false yes. I didn't know pointing out false information was a reaction to threatening and dubious behavior, unless you think it is threatening and dubious behavior? I think we should talk about lead. The more educated people are on it the better decisions they can make.

The point is to protect the birds. I don't see the point in going batchit crazy when other methods haven't been tried. There is historical data all across the country, state regs are not nationwide. Lead does affect mental development. Where is lead in newborn babies coming from?Lead is high in new construction water because the solder hasn't been coated with water scale. No one cares...lead is a known source in children's toys from china biden certainly doesn't care. What about airplanes spraying lead through our atmosphere..what about solar panels and other green energies using lead cobalt and all the other toxic heavy metals? Can't we make a better effort to keep things clean? Its so weird hunters are the problem. If they ban lead projectiles will they ban primers too? That's where the lead in the air comes from during most shooting after all.

I understand it's to protect the birds ....I'd be more than willing to participate in a real discussion but... "To lessen these impacts, lead has been removed from plumbing, paints, gasoline, fishing sinkers, waterfowl shot and other products. However, ammunition for hunting remains a significant source of lead in our environment. " The statement is false. Will the panel dismiss this like you or is it going to be a truthful and open discussion? Like I stated it has not been removed. It is a statement and an opening statement used as a precursory reason why evil hunters shouldn't use lead. They even tell you "why you should" Thanks for ignoring my question on disposal of contaminated remains. With all due respect It doesn't matter what you think, but what the readers think. This reader thinks, hey you uneducated people on the subject of lead, your bad, lead is bad it's not used anywhere else and you need to stop. What people are on the pro lead side of the "panel discussion"? Or is it going to be a completely one sided misinformation "panel" aka propoganda? By the way I encourage you to have your blood tested for lead, I think you would be surprised. Almost everyone carries it in their bloodstream newborn babies city people etc....all my shooting and consumption of game meat hasn't ever raised my levels. I probably put more rounds downrange the this whole forum combined. And I cast. I've literally casted tons of it... The only people I know with "high levels" are body shop guys, probably because it's airerated from sanding and spraying and it gets cross contaminated with everything.

Reading their intro/article, I see a few issues. Lead is still used in plumbing, not new construction but it's everywhere. It's also used in most automotive paints(specifically primers), as well as fuels(av gas-airplanes and race fuel) roofing etc. Secondly would burrying the gut pile on site or separately disposing (garbage) be a good way to prevent birds exposure thereby eliminating the issue? Almost Everyone carries lead in their bloodstream, it's far from being eliminated from common use. I'd be more open to listening to/partaking in something like this if it didn't start off with misleading information.

I'm still waiting on a peaceful transfer of power I'll from 2016. How sick is that?

Speaking of biden....Wich episode of netflix's cuties is bidens favorite?

I've slowly built my stash, I need to ocw a deer load might just ladder test. I loaded a bunch of deer/shtf loads but they are only running 3/4 moa...Throat erosion... all I've shot are match..Wich I'm considering using. Maybe the government should subsidise the gun industry like it does others to ensure a constant stream of ammunition and arms during times like these. They can buy with everyone's tax dollars at a higher rate, then sell low making the tax payer pay the difference. They can do billion dollar loans never to be repaid, along with flat out grants, then when companies over extend themselves they can get bail outs.

Stopped reading after "unsubstantiated claims".fake news. Everybody knows mail in ballots is a gasping act of desperation. I got 4 ballots last time for my local election. Neighbors didn't get theirs...that's just personal experience....then there's nationwide oopsies almost everywhere it's been tried. The better statement would be how un-american is it to vote by mail. Throughout our history.. war famine and disease we've shown up in person until now? Trump led the idiot media into an idiot trap now they look like fools printing this crap. That's ok because I enjoy not just their reactions but the readers reaction. He should have implied that he would prefer putting the election on hold until the plandemic is over. The pea brain meltdown would have been epic.

I don't agree with the label "panic buyers". Every gun enthusiast I know when things get dicey will splurge on a new gun, that alone nation wide would cause inventory change, or election cycle shortages. mix it with 70+% new gun buyers terrified of the nightly news and there you have it.

What's left of his mind is mush, I find it offensive and embarrassing and totally terrifying the Dems even have someone like this running

Where joe bidens mind at....not even worth debating. Anyone who thinks biden is pro anything america is on crack. Listen to this guy. Cartoonized for fun. Video makes me lol over and over. https://youtu.be/gnOdKYE0Z4k

That's my experience, while in velvet, the bucks are in the open... be it field or mature woods, once they start to rub it's heavy brush. Makes me a total believer of different buck movement theories like buck vacuums.

Does size really matter? Quality over quantity? I own a small but diverse 100+ Acer's of hardwood oak hickory maple cherry and 25 year overgrown field (tons of bedding) ponds streams and some swamp surrounded by AG.

Not an expert. No one knows what the future holds especially in times like these. I've only been watching prices for the past 6-7 years. I watch northeast timber exchange along with Dec. A timber/forestry service can or should have done an inventory. With that they can do a growth rate and percentage gain based off tree growth. Even if prices jump 10% you should have your two figures to compare. Keep in mind prices of everything rise over the years and are likely to rise again(inflation). You will likely make more the longer you wait. How much is the question. That would depend on woodlot size and quality. I would wait to see after the election. We are either going to keep chugging along or stagnate. Housing is back logged right now along with everything else. They all have to catch up. Once demand catches up prices will stabilize. It seems to me that local prices aren't as greatly effected by housing because of the type of wood we have as the west is. The bumps in prices I saw was after a tariff against canada and a deregulation of moving local "infected" wood and a presidential election ...cause and effect or coincidence... With that said right now mills are taking almost every species, depending on your woodlot...that might effect the decision.. I look at local paper companies, they log when the forest is mature for their needs. The trees won't go bad growing another decade.

There's no point talking about an already highly misunderstood concept when people are arguing over terminal ballistics of a 30cal moving a few hundred fps different.

Like others have said it's mostly a toss up. The .308 is cheaper to shoot. For distances most shoot deer at they(the deer) won't know the difference.If you want to split hairs carrying 06 would be slightly heavier? The 06 is antiquated because if you want something with more oomph than a 308 there are much better options than an 06. It doesn't have a niche to fill like it used to. There are awesome short action cartridges that make the 06 look silly. For what it's worth People have been long range hunting big game with 6mm for a long time now. If I was looking for a whitetail/black bear cartridge it would be 6.5 creed/260 if I had some distance to cover id use a 7saum or one of the many 6.5s like the PRC.

Ditto

Looks like you guys had a blast!

I tried my hand at forging last winter, second knife I made was damascus then another and another..all need handles and sharpening. I never carry nice knives in the woods 50/50 I'll loose them. The havalon definitely looks like my next purchase.