bpb

Doc, I shoot at 100 yards w/ round ball all the time & can print on a good day-offhand w/ iron sights 6" or so group. Using a 45 cal reproduction Vincent style rifle. With 72 gr of Goex 3f the ball is going appx 2,200fps During the Rev war their was a group of guys know as the "widow & orphant makers". 150 yard head shots were not uncommen. Run over to the Alabama hunt club during a shoot and watch.

http://www.scopeny.org/ARCHIVES/SCOPEnews.pdf follow the link its a pdf format.

fixed 4 to 6" small and thin. Like a Buck #102 woodsman

The same argument that was used to introduce the Compound bow back in the 70's. see the attached~ Actually they were never illegal as per say. In order to use a new hunting impilment it has to be written into law. Like the rifle bills. Tom_Melkioty_upstate_story.pdf

I saw that show. Think it was 200 to 400 yards. What people today consider primitive was top of the line back in the day. Also many folks only owned 1 or 2 firearms. You've heard the sayting, "beware the man who shoots one gun". But as a refrence here is some international news. Theses were no doubt what we it the know call slug guns--a typical bullet design, but lead. The 7th Long-Range World Championships were held 24-27 September at Camp Butner, North Carolina, USA. Shooters from seven nations competed at distances between 300 and 1,000 yards, turning in performances worthy of the best modern target rifles. But these were not modern high-velocity rifles, but the percussion target rifles of the 19th century, when long-range shooting was in its infancy. Typically between .40 and .50 caliber, weighing around fifteen pounds, these rifles represented the apogee of mid-1800s firearm technology. American competitors excelled in the original-arms division of the matches. Firing 150-year-old antiques, Karl Kuehn took gold in the 1,000-yard match and silver in the 900-yard match, carrying him to triumph in the overall long-range aggregate and earning a bronze medal in the grand aggregate. Nor was Kuehn the only medalist. Al Roberts won the original division of the 600-yard match, while Mon Yee took bronze at 300 and 500 yards - scores which would earn him bronze in the mid-range aggregate as well. Meanwhile, Dave Munch and Rick Weber took bronze medals in the reproduction and original divisions of the 1,000-yard event. The Long-Range Muzzle-Loading World Championship was held under the auspices of the Muzzle-Loading Associations International Committee (MLAIC), the world governing body for competition with black powder firearms. The 8th World Long-Range Championship will be held in 2011, at the famed Bisley range in Great Britain.

Don't waste your money. I've had several customers report anything Shockey did not stand up to his claims. I'd go for Goex regular ol BP,Tripple 7 and Pyrodex,Clean Shot or American pioneer powder. All have shot well for me in loose powder form. Others like the convience of the T7 pellets.. But at $30.00+- per box for 7oz of powder I can't see spending that kind of $ when you can get a full 16oz of loose for the same price.

Like it or not your statement enforces the antis goals. What your stating helps the antis push their message that hunters are lazy slobs. Your opinion is not based on any facts. It's just your opinion and it is wrong. The Xbow is not the poaches weapon of choice. Tell all the stories you want. Unless they can be backed up by a hard paper complaint from Law Enforcement , it's a campfire tale. Attempting to get us to believe that a poacher is going to shoot a deer with a broadhead and then follow the blood trail, in the dark no less is a little far fetched. Besides, we've already beat the poacher myth to death in other threads.

What Dirks failed to mention is in 2009 NYSMLA & NYB proposed a youth weekend the week before teh SZ firearms season.

It's against the law to catch and release an animal unless you own the property or have permission. In most cases the animal has to be destroyed. Why send your problem to another person or block of woods.

According the my talks with the DEC, the air gun was not classified. People were using them to shoot game with. The DEC had to come out with a regulation to satisify some issues people had. Hard to tell why the old guy was arrested, maybe some law against shooting one in town. Pissed off neighbor anti who knows. Ah see I looked at the article, he was charged for animal abuse, yes he's now a felon. You can thank the HSUS for that law.

I understood the bill to be; "to legalize the Xbow" No restrictions" "Let the DEC regulate it" then it was changed several times. I don't recall the archery season part in the bill before I was called and asked if it was OK to place the Xbow in the late ML season. What confused me was when I finally saw this latest version it should have also supported the use on private land during all season's and now its not. Humm again the state is handi-capping the land owner. I will agree and have argued for many many years that sportsmen have to stop, as Rich wrote: "to stop waving the handicapped, women & children flag". That we should work for all and not part of us. In fact ,when I was President, I had the Wayne County Sporsmen's Federation issue a by-law resolution to do just that. In addition to my argument I've also written and spoke about it in SCOPE,NYSMLA,WCSC,NYSCC & FLCC meetings. People agree with the idea, but many fail to follow through. I'll say it again, since the NYSMLA/NYB proposal last year I've yet to be interviewed by any of the outdoor writers. I sure do get plenty of calls and emails from other folks though. BPB PS: we all ready have 4 or 5 Xbow threads here, we really don't need another one. Lets wait and see if the Gov signs the bill. And the snapping turtle, trap ID tag bills as well.

You don't think it's possible for one counties sportsman's club to total 2000 members - a generous estimate of NYB's total STATEWIDE membership? County Federations include all sportsman organizations. Thru archery leagues, 3d shoots, and local sportsman's club's, I interact regularly with 100 plus hunters who bowhunt. Overwhelming attitude is they are not interested in using a crossbow, but would have no problem with them being allowed with all other archery equipment in the bow season - at least 80% plus. Since their not interested for themselves, they are not forming a crossbow org and probably would not join one until it effects them close to home. Not that different then NYB struggle to even get 1% of the licensed bowhunters in the state - and again that number is generous. Fact is the crossbow where legal has not ruined or had any effect on those choosing to hunt with real bows - or even those shooting compounds. ;D Steve, I doubt you could get 2,000 signatures across the state. Most of the federation meetings I've attended had less than 20 people in attendence and usually it is under 10. Read the first post to this thread. I wrote that and emailed it out & Sits posted it here. I was on the phone with legislatores when I wrote it. Long Island is 5 largest and most populated island and the total count was around 200 letters. I'd wager most of those were from outside LI. Now matter how much the horse is beat, once the Gov. signs the bill Xbow hunting in NY will become a reality. Better than that it will become legal, which means I've achived my goal of promoting the Xbow as a legal hunting weapon,for everyone who wants to use one in NY & before the antis stopped it all together. FYI: guys, it wasn't the antis that gave me the most opposition to my proposal of,( make it legal,no restrictions & let the DEC regulate it); it was other sportsmen. NYB has come out with a neutral opinion on the XBow as it will not be in the 7+- week archery season. There's nothing left to debate BPB

WOW! It was one of the pheasant rearing farms the state close a few years back. A little suggestion here guys. You all need to get off the internet and join one of the Federations or SCOPE chapter in your area so you can stay on top of issues that effect sportsmen. I was at an event yesterday and people had not heard the State closed some of the parks. Like a former USFW director said in 2004; sportsmen ae not showing up when needed.

Hey Ken, Retired life now gives you time to play of the forums! BPB BTW forum: I'm also a SCOPE state Director & Probably a little more vocal than most folks.

http://mendonconservation.org/

Artificial food plots do not make for a big rack or deer. It the genetics that create the deer. The program is ok for private propery owners who want to play around. Then again all of the people who run around planting an artificial food base in the middle of the woods aren't even scratching the surface of a real AR/QDM based program. Those big racks the QDM people parade in front of you are developed through years of scientific gene research in a lab.

So what do you guys think about the JWGF being turned into one of those office/manufacturing parks? The development people have a web site http://www.gcedc.com/ genessee county and their minuets are listed as well.http://www.gcedc.com/pdf/stamp/executive_summary.pdf The thing I noticed was how the utility companies gave hundred's of thousands of dollars to lobby and start a study of the site. I saw a mention of,(useless); windmills in a drawing but no mention of them in any letters. see this pdf below now here is the web site it is listed on www.horizonwindfarms.com http://www.horizonwindfarms.com/northeast-region/documents/under-dev/alabama-ledge/deis/8.%20Summary%20of%20Cumulative%20Impacts.pdf Yes we're getting screwed, again. I argued with all the strip malls abandon and looking like a 3rd world country why can't one of those be built on.

[move] The bottom line is, when the Gov. signs the bill, it will become law. [/move]

Not a member but think the range is 60 or so yards. Williamson has benches, covered area and range to 100m. Electronic card gate entrance http://www.nygunclub.org

Here you go pulling out probable numbers of what you think will happen. It’s like all those license sales and money the state would reap if the Xbow was made legal to hunt with. POOF up in a flash. Ohio's Archery season is almost 20 weeks long compared to Ny's 7 weeks. You forget that the NY DEC wanted to increase the deer take in certain WMU's because all those bow hunters aren't getting the job done during their season. You continue to argue using unproven numbers & myths. You have yet to show us the "poacher’s weapon of choice numbers/proof". Instead you have pulled the thread off track with disingenuous one sided mythical comments & choice data from other states. You can not factually state that NY hunter’s will double the deer take if the Xbow is allowed in archery season. Many people will not fork over $500.00 plus dollars to purchase & to hunt with one. If deer take is increased so what, isn't that the objective to kill deer. For one comparing NY's season's to Ohio is about as comparative as wooden shaft flint tipped arrow to a carbon fiber shaft mechanical broad head arrow. Given Ohio's 20 week archery season vs. the broken up 3 week firearms season, its easy to see the Xbow harvest could equal or exceed other hunting implements. Plain & simple, someone is afraid another hunter will kill a buck. As it appears the numbers and continue bucks are safe for now. antlerless deer in OH was 167,355 VS antlered 93,905 http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=39iFAVRTRhk%3d&tabid=18781

SCOPE has worked on the renewal process & we can't get enough supporters east of the Hudson to make an impact. You better be worried about the colored gun laws. It only takes one county legislator to make a motion , followed by a fools vote and your guns area gone. SCOPE filed suit and won arguing the counties were charging to much for amendments instead of the states $3.00 fee. But as we all know NYC & the surrounding sisters have their own set of rules. Now that there's a 2nd NRA Chicago suit it appears NYC will have to wait in line a little longer. I suggest counties start dropping the permit process as being to costly. Everyone seems to comprimise a certain permit, heck with that,how bout none at all!

SCOPEny.org is in the middle of a law suit with Nassau county over their colored gun BS. There's a 12k legal bill. If all the permit holders gave $1.00 to that fund we'd pay it off and have some cash left over to launch another fight. It amazes me 4,000 people can team up with Schumer on a salt water marine license yet some of these Schumer sportsmen let a neighbor hang.

Yes, as time permits for everything I shoot. I have to many project in the start mode at the moment 7 & about 100 test loads to fire. Started on a 30-06 PO Ackley improved this past winter. Fasteddie, I have 250 bullets` 100gr PSP's 270's on the shelf if you're looking. I'll have to check the cost.

AH BS!!! : You think I was born yesterday and just stepped into hunting today? ??? Like Steve asked, show us the numbers. Come on show them to me. In fact, you call the DEC and tell them I'm still waiting on those numbers I asked for. Odd how the state of Wyo has a FAQ on their web site and they call that a myth. No it's not sour grapes, I'll tell you this, some of you guys keep on blowing smoke up everyone's ass and you'll soon find out what a sour grape taste like. Show us the numbers. bpb

It's not just NYB~Snowmobilers~hikers~farmers~ some hidden NYC & New Platz antis that camp out in the DEC office~ and every other paid lobbiest that does nothing for us. They fought the early ML season because some people didn't read the proposal and went off whining how'd we'd shoot all the bucks. It was made worse because many of the sporting community didn't read it either and never stepped up to defend the proposal's. The proposal was for flat tops only. It was the DEC who continued to come to meetings asking how to reduce crop damage in certain areas. We gave them option after option and not once was the ML season changed or modified. IN FACT, the 1st proposal from the Wayne County fedeation some years back asked for end of Sept. using that years tags. October, January and dang near every month inbetween has been offered. Every time the whiners came out with a lame excuse. From here on out it will be ; When do I get my stand alone ML season"! I pay for it...it's in the DEC regulations, so make it happen. And you can quote me on that!!