JFB

I sometimes wonder if people would throw grenades at night over bait piles if it were legal? Again, it's all relative. If you hunt in an area with few deer, I completely understand shooting a young deer that might be at a premium. Or if you are inexperienced I again see shooting younger deer. But if you hunt places with a healthy heard, get outside your box and challenge yourself. You may be surprised by what you are capable of. I witness people hunting property next to me who must shoot at everything they see and yes they are slobs for a multitude of reasons. That says nothing about me Phade other than I'm intelligent enough to identify people who trespass and hold no values for humane hunting, etc etc. Let's not pretend a bigger percentage of the "brown it's down" guys don't fall into the slob category that we all complain about. I didn't say if you shoot a spike you are a slob. But I am saying that they guys who just roll out and shoot at every living thing more often are slobs than anyone else in my opinion and experience.

Why would some sort of restraint not be logical in area's that have good deer potential already? It's all relative but let's raise the bar. If I hunt an area that has exceptional potential which has proven genetics and nutrition, why not make our objective to be more than getting a deer to a thin 6pt or similar? The culture in places like Ohio or Kansas is much different than ours and the majority of hunters voluntarily pass on non mature deer because they know their potential is greater and they can shoot a mature animal. The area I hunt is really not much different with respect to it's potential... except for the guys in NY who simply can't resist the easy target. If we have some better than average area's in NY, it's my opinion guys should raise their own bar and let these deer get to 2.5 and 3.5 years old. Many of the guys I am friends with focus on age of deer, rather than points. But seeing that so many of the hunters in NY have a hard enough time even counting past three or four, I would be hard pressed to expect them to know the difference between a 1.5 and 3.5 year old buck. That is why traditional AR's would at least be better than nothing and it might just force the slob hunter to look closely before unloading.

The original poster didn't define 3pt's to a side or otherwise. The RESULTS I see living here and owning property are slob hunters who wear their camo in the bar the night prior to the hunt, stumble into the woods and unload on unidentified deer (other than being brown) just because they can. Forcing someone to think and look closely before unloading would be nice. I shoot my share of mature deer but I'd sure like to find less wounded yearlings. 8H is indeed very good due to exceptional habitat, food and genetics... just wish people there could show some restraint.

8H please. It's got all the other ingredients... just need a little age to let some more to maturity.

Depends on your priorities and 'style'... Up north will have that more country feel I assume with world class fishing of the 1000 Island region, Black Lake and tribs. I don't know about the hunting but others have said it's good so sounds like a very nice option if your priorities are hunting/fishing. On the other hand, if being closer to a 'big' city feel is high on the list, Rochester also offers fantastic fishing and certainly hunting (if you can find a spot). You are likely to have a neighbors house within spitting distance living in Roch area while perhaps up North offers a bit of distance associated with more country? Drive the area's you'd likely buy a house in based on your budget and get a feel. If all seems equal to you, guess you got to go with the better job.

Troutman beat me to it while I was typing... sorry for the duplicate info.

The area's surrounding Rochester offer excellent hunting. Monroe county has excellent whitetail genetics, habitat, and soil to grow mature deer. Access however can be difficult as much of it is suburban. Fishing is outstanding. I am an avid bass angler and there are endless great options within 15 minutes to an hour or so in any direction. The Genesee river is also fantastic in the fall and when the salmon run. A fair amount of bank fishing opportunities exist. Check out www.nybass.com and there are some guys who fish tributaries for trout and salmon a fair amount that can point you better than I. If you have any interest in tournament bass fishing just PM me. Good luck.

So many people make a hobby out of being what I've coined as "keyboard nasty" and argumentative. Understandably it sounds like a lot of people are fed up with it. Some say "toughen up" or "it's a message board with different views on matters what did you expect?" But why isn't there an option for the person who starts a post to make it "Nasty or Debate free" on this site? If people saw the original posters intention was not to get in a war of words, they would label it "Nasty/Debate free". This way, before someone joined in on such a post, hopefully they would tame their attacks.. and if they didn't a moderator might pull their nasty response. This way, if I wanted to share a picture of a mature buck I shot and labeled it "Nasty/Debate free", I would not have to hear about how I'm an elitist or worry about being attacked because maybe I spelled a word wrong. For those who tend to be a bit harsh frequently or like to argue, just start a different post and don't label it and that means anything is fair game. It would seem that such a function would give a poster the option to trying to keep things civil.

It does not matter what he claims the DEC said... Most county parks are NO HUNTING and you called the county and they confirmed it was NO HUNTING. You can't just claim a DEC offer said it was ok and think you're not going to be in trouble based on an alleged verbal "ok". Reading the ignorance of the post first made me think it was an anti trying to get us to admit we'd trespass even though we knew it was wrong.

IF (and it's a big IF) the DEC shows up and gets involved, I would think the odds of them being able to see a slug hole in the deer is very good. On top of that, you are a witness who will attest to what you saw and then they can go look for the shell casings. I'm not an authority of any sort but seems like they could make a case fairly easily.

Congrats on your instinct and the move in for the kill. Certainly not much to dispute about the result there! I will say however that like Phade is speaking about, I often wonder why we sometimes "wait two days after hanging a stand" rather than hunting it that moment or the very next day. Think about it.. if it sits for two days "cooling off", thats two days of mature deer potentially getting educated before you go in for your first sit. If we sit the very next day, I suppose thats the real surprise because very few deer had time yet to pick up on anything being different. I usually end up hanging in the spring or well prior to season. Occasionally I hang mid season and did so this year which resulted in a kill. "First time" sits certainly are the best percentage any way you slice it.

Griz, I can relate to what you're trying to say. Four of my five deer weapons are essentially one shot (bow, Encore Pistol, ML, single shot 20 gauge) and when you only have one shot you tend to make it count. I was embarrassed this year that it actually took me a walk up second shot to dispatch a deer. But compared to my rookie years long ago, I've increased my harvests since choosing my shots like described prior. Back as a 16 yr old, it took a couple dumb shots and misses before I matured.

Belo, I realize that. But refreshingly it seems like a lot of guys relate to what I'm saying and empathize with it. I have nothing against someone hunting for meat, but I do have something to say when people take terrible shots just because they don't care if it's big/small/buck/doe. Personally, after passing many deer I managed to shoot a very mature buck (showing off my elitist side) and then three adult doe (showing off my meat/conservation side) to do my part with the buck/doe ratio. I donated one doe and gave away another to a friend. I'm proud (not arrogant) to say all were broadside high percentage shots.

Might be a stretch... but who knows what critters like the wax on your bow string..

Add me to the no shots at running deer list. Not trying to ruffle feathers or start a thing, but to try and time a bounding deer to any size opening is difficult itself. To then try and place a shot in the vitals at the moment the running deer is in the opening is low percentage. Not to mention the potential increased danger of trying to accomplish all that, and at the same time knowing your backdrop, etc. Deer often stop on their own and you can also do things to get them to stop. If they don't stop, I don't shoot because I've just seen too many dangerous examples of what can happen. The other thing to mention is that if by chance the deer is running because you spooked it, it's probably running fairly straight away from you and that rarely offers you a sporting shot. A wounded deer or bullet that ruins meat just isn't worth it in my opinion.

Bowshotml.. you might think this is a selfish answer but it's the truth. Earlier in the year I shot a big eight and it too was clearly wounded prior (I'm not making this stuff up). The butcher rejected the meat and the DEC gave me a new tag. I've been hunting a specific 14pt all season and I wasn't about to sacrifice my only buck tag again just because idiots can't shoot. If I did that, I'd have a wall full of fork horns and six pointers and probably no meat to show for it. It may not be what some guys think is the right thing to do but I didn't cause the problem and alone I can't fix it by cleaning up after them. The best I can do is educate.

I wish you guys were my neighbors.

Between last weekend and today I saw three different bucks hobbling through the woods. Found a fourth buck laying dead and from the decay I'd say it was from opening weekend. I'm not saying I've never missed, but I sure wish people would stop just throwing lead. Do people unloading their gun at sprinting deer really not feel bad when they "miss"? Not surprisingly, all these bucks appeared to be 1.5 yr old deer... which sure opens the possibility it was from "brown it's down" hunters. I don't have proof of that, but it sure seems that those that don't care what they shoot wound a lot of deer. When you don't care if it's big/small/buck/doe... all thats left to do is SHOOT! I mean seriously, even if your third, fourth, or fifth shot happens to hit... what are the chances you kill it (not to mention how much meat you destroy with your random hit)? Sure wish more people would use their heads and respect the game. Can't wait to teach my son to hunt and give him one round for his gun.

Geez Finfeathr, in my opinion Biz's post didn't warrant such a harsh response and as a business owner, I don't think you did yourself any favors by blasting him for his rather innocent personal observation. I don't have a dog in this fight but I'd be apprehensive to take something to you based solely on your response. You might have been better served saying something to the effect of... "Yeah, photographs are sometimes tough and I admit I don't spend alot of time on sprucing up my website. I have a ton of repeat business and happy customers and I'd love to have you in my studio to see my work in person. Thanks for the interest". But hey, you're entitled to type whatever you like.. I'm just saying.

Congrats! To me thats what it's all about... challenging yourself which sometimes means passing up what you feel are easy marks or not mature deer for your tastes or area. Then later being able to take something that was challenging to you personally. My guess is it won't be long before you exceed even that great buck! Again, many congrats.

Thanks for the constructive input.

I shot a doe on Thanksgiving day morning and I won't be able to get it to the butcher until tomorrow (Sat). So it hung Thurs, Fri and it was roughly 60 degree high Thursday and low 50's today. It hung in a covered shed so sun was not an issue. What are your thoughts on those temps? It's 45 degree's now and once it's at the butcher tomorrow it may take him another day or two (but at least temps are supposed to be below 40 from here). Curious as to people thoughts on if they'd be concerned.

I would grant recovery permission if they asked. But they don't ask, they just sneak and go. Drives were everywhere yesterday and unfortunately I could not be in the field to patrol. We are in the midst of specifying that if they claim to have a wounded deer on our property that we require a phone call. Otherwise, they'd have an open excuse to say why we found them walking through the property (when in reality they might be driving or hunting). Vast majority of these guys are not bow hunters, just brown/down gun hunters.

You guys are correct by hunting around them and tolerate it the best I can. It only takes a few neighbors to really have an unfavorable impact unfortunately. My brother spent the morning following drag marks through our property after yesterdays drives. Miss bow hunting...

I hear what you are saying Doc. But we are only 3 days into the season and it's my belief that these deer become SO nocturnal largely because of these massive and constant drives. That forces people to drive even more just to get movement and again we're only 3 days in and can already mostly forget about outsmarting a deer on their natural (feeding, breeding, bedding movements) which most bow hunters so enjoy. Now it's like sampotter mentioned where they stomp on a rabbit and blast away. The problem is these aren't rabbits and we're not using buck shot and I seem to see more wounded deer resulting from this. I know it's not realistic, but it sure would be neat if people just took stand or still hunted similar to bow hunters. There still would be plenty of people moving around but the nocturnal factor might greatly reduce. Just dreaming I guess..