TheHunter

Great indisputable points, AR works and improves EVERYONES hunting experiance along with increasing the buck survival and age structure.

Well to you maybe they don't .. to me they do. So if they make sense to you they are not open for discussion? Figures...some one sees an issue with statistics.....and you just choose to believe and not debate....so much for your spirited debate comment Where did he say its not open for discussion? Stop drumming up this BS.

I hope so! You guys keep telling us to stop making comments about your AR units since we don't hunt in them and now you want the rest of the state to implement them also? Why don't you keep your AR's to yourselves, and not push then on anyone else! As has been posted many times before, the DEC has stated that they see NO biological need for them. I am sure that you guys will miss more than a few more deer before you see AR's implemented statewide. LOL In fact you may be hanging up your weapons for good before you see them implemented! LOL Sure why not, majority of hunters want them. Thats coming from the DEC that you cherrish so much for their "no biological need" despite proof and studies that show otherwise. :-*

Nice bucks... How's everyone else doing around your area?

I hope so! Keep sending those cards and letters to the North Pole and hope for the best! Even they have AR's there... You see the racks on those deer! And they are nice and healthy and happy. With out AR's Rudy would have been shot out before his nose lit up.

Well to you maybe they don't .. to me they do. They make sense to a majority of NY hunters as well, its just the brown its down crowd that doesn't want it to make sense.

I hope so!

So true, and these same guys get mad when they are called the Brown its downers... :'( Truth hurts.

Apparently.... Thats a good way of looking at things, it must be fun to shoot an animal in cage. They all taste the same to me, yummy. Except the slightly older, more mature deer have more meat. Ahh, thats the spirit! Except with AR, that won't happen unless your illegally taking the deer. ???

Well said, obviously from a highly educated individual. I'm just basing that on your extraordinary typing and spelling skills. A++++!!!!

LOL

Can you translate that to the english language please?

As is everything you have posted on this thread. A more natural age structure, protection of yearling bucks, and a better buck to doe ratio the herd will result in a more healthy herd. Older bucks, even the 1.5's that are protected by AR's leads to smarter and more mature bucks. A more mature buck is larger, giving them the chance to survive harsh winters. A more mature buck has a great chance of evading predators. As we all know the rut wears bucks down, they use their reserved fat stores. In area's where the buck to do ratio is also out of whack, or area's where most bucks are harvested, combined with a harsh winter will result in buck deaths and or malnourished bucks. Regardless, if we did have a proper age structure in place, which is what I was originally pointing out, the more mature and healthiest bucks would be the ones doing a majority of the breading. Where an age structure exists is when bucks have the change to fight, and prove dominance, and the most fit and healthiest bucks would be doing the breeding...

Holy crap! Thats the exit wound??? I've never seen a broadhead do that... It looks like a good shot too, odd that there was not more blood. Maybe it was because of the angle of the exit? Was it raining?

Nice bucks!

Four Seasons, what do you raise the deer for? I'm not for a fenced hunt, but to each his own. I never knew this whole selling of deer even existed (ignorance on my part), after reading a few of those posts on the other forum, its obvious that its a pretty big business.

To be honest, I do not know completely, I'm still doing some research. I believe a lot has to do with hunter pressure, as it is quite high. I wish there was more micro management on the doe permits, some of these WMU's are just to large.

Age structure provides better reproductive health as well as better breeding behaviors, which results in a healthier herd.

No kids, yet. But got my brother-in-law and his son hunting... Also my cousin and my brother.

Yup, just like some places need AR and some do not.

Agreed, I've herd some horror stories.

IF you were calculating a DECREASE, if the number went from 1245 to 867 then it would be 30%, however we are not calculating a decrease, we are caculating an increase, its basic math. Thats great you have a chance to hunt 5 P&Y's, the area's with AR's do not have that kind of age structure to allow for those kinds of opportunities. The situtuation and your thoughts would be different for you if you were in a AR area that needed assistance. This is why there is overwhelming support for AR's by hunters that hunt in AR areas. And all of you are speaking based on opionion and not first hand experiance of hunting and owning land in a AR zone. Not one of you hunts in WMU 3 that I have seen.

I'd be for 1 buck per season. And I'd bet that guy that guy busted was a brown its down guy.

What don't you understand? AR/QDM proponents keep telling us how it's all supposed to be so much better for the herd health, so tell us exactly how this is so without having self-serving HUNTING reasons as the primary motive behind it or part of the answer here? Very simple question in my opinion. In the AR Zone I was in. There was a poor buck to doe ratio before AR Shorter more natural ruts, better buck survival because of better physical condition for the winter months There is no biological reason to shoot up all the 1.5 bucks I gotta get to work, I'll write more later on.

Larry, Thanks for posting that. Keep in mind the following: Based on the data the DEC is providing from 2006 to 2009, 4 years of data shows the following for the WMU's with AR: 3C: from 508 bucks to 514 bucks = 1% + 3H: from 876 bucks to 1245 bucks = 42% + 3J: from 712 bucks to 797 bucks = 19% + 3K: from 656 bucks to 568 bucks = 13% - AND the most important, that the statewide buck harvest has been down from a high of 140k in 2000 as burmjohn pointed out and has YET to rebound to those levels, falling short in 2009 by almost 40K deer (40%) from 2000 levels 2 years before AR was introduced intro the initial two AR areas. So thanks ;D for your useful post that gives us zero insight into the AR effectiveness other then the proven first hand experience that those have posted on here from FACT and first hand experience. Bravo!