ManicOutdoorsman92
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Posts posted by ManicOutdoorsman92
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Took a walk from my house to the park and school where I have been seeing 20-30 around 710pm each night since we got all that snow. Was hoping for easy shed find, but no luck.
1.7 Miles covered. Followed tracks and poop into woods and never seen so much deer crap in my life. Not many buck rubs but there has to be some Giants in here. It's between Schools and park so no hunting.
Dead skunk?
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I looked an area like that over earlier, there were some monster rubs back there in years past, dec " unique area", although it gets lots of traffic from locals walking the dogs, and what not, same deal though. They come to the soccer and baseball fields for feed
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Oh no, I am not debating whether you are entitled to an opinion. I have no problem with you having it. I am not even arguing the thought process in regards to you putting the meat in front of the horns. You can have your opinion and I am 100% OK with that. I might argue some points on the other side for sure, but I am in no way arguing with you over the topic of trophy hunting, as much as how you have approached it.
It is different when you condemn something and say that they are scumbags, question their desires and frame them as “pieces of sh#t”. That is an example of being intolerant. I am not intolerant of your opinion even when I disagree with it. But I won’t resort to calling names which puts them on a level with some sort of law violator. You are condemning people with a strong love for the same sport of hunting as you love (I make and assumption here), they just have a different reason for loving it. Advocating that their reason is not valid through name calling is obviously not tolerance, and by insinuating they are scumbags you are saying that there is no place for it in the sport of hunting. That becomes far less than accepting another’s opinion, and moves toward advocating for a change in the rights of hunters.
Just as I indicated in my last post, I don’t fall for antics from leftist or get hurt feelings when people like yourself condemn me for loving this sport, the meat it provides, and the freedom to go anywhere I would like to enjoy it even more. I see your opinion and antics for what they are, and not as a simple expression of an opinion on the subject. One of us is making the effort to push an agenda on the other, and in this case it is not me as you put forth above. I will readily accept your opinion that hunting for meat is more important than hunting for horns, I can see the logic and accept the rationale. I see other reasons for hunting deer as well. Can you accept my opinion, and allow for my preferences? You say that you can, but then you call me a scumbag for it. Just doesn't make sense.
So, there is obviously no need for us to carry this on any farther. I cannot change your opinion that you shouldn’t be calling fellow hunters names and condemning their legal hunting efforts that you don’t appreciate. And you won’t convince me that I should just accept you pushing and anti-hunting agenda by belittling the reasons that others should like hunting because it doesn’t match your preferred intentions.
This is a far larger conversation than can be discussed through forums. in short i will say that when antlers are a primary objective, respect for the animal they pursue, is often lost. how many guys out there would take a less than optimal shot at a big buck, because, " you may never get another chance". lots that i have talked to about shots with a bow i hear about clearly shouldn't have been taken, but they couldn't help but be fixated on the rack. I never hear of these risky shots taken on does. Thats just a small part but again, a much larger conversation, and wont continue the back and forth over forums. We'll just agree to disagree
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Hurt feelings? Nope. I find it difficult to have my feelings hurt by simpletons not smart enough to realize that he’s advocating the wrong cause. If you think something is so terribly wrong, I am sure you’d like to see it done away with. If you can’t see what kind of win it would be for anti-hunting if they took away hunting over state lines and any form of “trophy” hunting, then you might as well go stand in line and hold a PETA sign at one of their rallies. Wondering if you already have the T-shirt.
In addition, calling people names isn’t criticism, but you can’t seem to figure that out either. Have to explain this to my three-year-old when he gets upset with his older brother. Luckily, if he is like his older siblings he will grow out of it and won’t resort to name calling when he gets a little older. Apparently, you never were taught that lesson.
Morals…yes mine are different than yours. Your name calling has put that on public display. You remind me of what I watch on TV from the young liberal left. Screaming, hollering, name calling, sign toting, protest everything. They don’t accept any view but their own, and they want to disrupt anything they can, just cause “it is their right” to do so. I have no idea who you are or what age you might be, but you paint this picture clearly in my mind. Not sure what ever happened to accepting other opinions instead of condemning and name calling, but you are living proof that it is going to the pot.
Ah funny, your opinion is your own, but I'll say assumption of my character is completly innaccurate. And basing all that from some forum post is pretty rash don't ya think. Funny, call me a simpleton, sign waving leftist, without knowing a thing about me and then in the same post say, "Not sure whatever happened to accepting other opinions instead of condemning others and name calling", for the record i accept your opinion just don't agree with it, theres a difference there. Im not forcing my opinion down your throat, just stating it. Also as far as politics is concerned, I choose not to get involved. Whether the far left or right they're all blowing smoke up your ass and if you fall for their antics, you're the real simpleton. Failing to have an independent thought process, and having to fall into this group, or that group, to feel the consolidation of people, who ONLY THINK LIKE YOU, and then refute everyone else's opinion
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All the walking and this is still my best shed, spotted from my stand the 2015 gun season. Bladed beam and g2, stickers, a wannabe drop tine, and incredible mass. To say i was excited when i picked this up is an understatement. The ones found not looking are always the best
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Honestly if all you can equate is,
Illegal = wrong, bad
Legal = good, right
you really should reevaluate your morals
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Who else calls hunters...hunting legally...scumbags?????? Anti-hunters do, that's who.
Either one of the two of the actions you described of these LEGAL hunters deserves the scumbag term in your opinion. Was it their desire to hunt deer in other states? Or was it the willingness to give the deer away because they didn’t absolutely need it themselves? Both are legal, and far from controversial, unless you are an anti-hunter.
I can’t hunt free range elk or moose here in NY, and I’d love to do so, but I don’t need all the meat. You define me as a scumbag because of those details. If not, and you say hunting another species is OK out of state, then there is no reason I can’t go hunt whitetails somewhere else. Just cause we have whitetails in this state doesn’t mean I am a scumbag for wanting to hunt them elsewhere. What if I simply enjoy taking a trip to the Midwest to hunt with friends? It can be a lot of fun! I have good friends that I go with, they aren't scumbags.
I was really hoping that you might just be passionate about how important the meat is to the hunt, and you just didn’t choose the right words to show a different opinion on the matter from some of your fellow sportsmen. I had hoped that was the case, until you continued to stand by those words after being asked why you would call a legal hunter a scumbag.
Again, who else calls legal hunters scumbags? No one, just anti-hunters. What other conclusion would you like me to arrive at?
LEGALITY, has nothing to do with it. Its my own personal ethics that drive my opinion, theres plenty of scumbags in the world working within the law, hunting aside. Again you got all the freedom in the world to hunt for whatever reasons you like, and im going to express my opinion about it. So hypethetical, the state employs legal means for spot lighting and night hunting to decrease numbers, would you call those "hunters", i would assume, you called baiters hunters. Im sorry if the scumbag comment, hurt your feelings, you can slide in " peice of shit" in it place if its more suitable. I didnt realize you were so sensitive to criticism
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Sure you do, that is correct.
But I look up at the top of my browser and see huntingny.com.
Funny that you choose to type anti-hunting propaganda here.
Might I suggest some groups for you to consider supporting who share your opinions, such as The Defenders of Wildlife, or maybe Int. Fund for Animal Welfare, how about the stand by PETA, or you could google The American Society for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, and probably the most notable Humane Society of the United States.
Check those out, you will find lots of like-minded people there for sure.
Ha thats funny! Where'd i come across as anti hunting, just dont care for big buck trophy hunters, and their ideology. Because I don't agree with your mindset that makes me anti-hunting?
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Thats right you got the freedom to kill food you don't need, and I got the freedom to express my opinions about you on that. 'MERICA HELL YEA!
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Pride, huh? Well, I guess there will always be people who have lower standards than others.
You calling a hunter a scumbag for going out of state to hunt a buck he doesn’t absolutely need for meat is equivalent to the opinion of a PETA member or anti-hunter IMO. It goes totally against the freedom that we have to pursue wildlife as hunters and gatherers. Didn’t say hunters and keepers. To gather doesn’t mean I have to keep, because I can decide to gather and provide for others if I choose to.
States use bag limits as a means to control populations. In most states, out of state hunters are part of that equation. When I apply for an out of state tag they don’t ask me for my welfare card or food stamps to make sure I have a reason to shoot a buck there. They provide me the opportunity to help them control their population, and I get the chance to hunt in some places much different than NY.
Some states require a hunter to pay a processing fee (to pay for butchering) in order to drop off a deer to donate for shelters, or a family in need. They are providing a service whether you like it or not. If you want to pull that meat off their table because of the means or generosity it took to get there, then I’d suggest that you might be the scumbag in that scenario.
Hunters shoot and trappers trap predators for population control as well, but I don’t eat the coyotes I shoot. Maybe you do. If you don’t eat them I hope you don’t shoot them. And if you dare sell the pelts for profit you’d better call yourself something worse than a scumbag. After all, I am just using your rationale.
Are there scumbag hunters among our ranks? I say yes. I see them when I find deer shot from the road and the heads cut off or the back straps cut out. I see them firsthand when I walk up on my neighbor who just shot two bucks with his rifle and puts tags on them that aren’t his. I note them when I see bait piles in this state near stands. Personally, I do not like the idea of baiting for deer and I have to admit that I am not in favor of fenced in hunts either. BUT, if it is legal where they are doing it, then they are within the law and I won’t judge them and call them scumbags. They are just hunters, but maybe they do it a bit different than I would choose to. Kinda like you shooting button bucks. Did you need to shoot that particular deer for meat? I don’t personally like harvesting BBs, and I will do whatever I can to keep from doing it. But if you choose to I won’t call you a scumbag. You’d be a hunter.
Hmmm when did I say i shoot button bucks, i pass all fawns, and will pass a 1 1/2 until within the last week of any season bow or gun
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Very classy.
Why thankyou! I take real pride in my in how I present myself.
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Just really started shed hunting last few years, oh I've found them prior but when just out moving stands and such. Last year I found 7 or 8, in 12-15 hours of walking . I walk maybe two hours each time.
All on farm land , mostly walking hedgerows between crop fields and thickets .
Thats damn good for that amount of time. Last year was my first serious year, got 22 although i had a stroke of beginners luck, the first finds were nine in a small alfalfa feild, with 2 sets and a nice 5 pt half, that was a great day. Usually If i find more than one thats a good day, put in atleast 3-7 hrs each outting if weather permits and am out pretty much every spare moment from, end of jan-april. Im currently at 9 for the year, hopefully will get a few more. Theres a small chunk of private up the road i hunt and was suprised i didnt pick a shed up back there. I know the bucks back there pretty well, and their areas, found two from some i had on camera last year and had those bucks under my stand at separate times during this past season ( tag was already filled), also spotted a buck back there i didnt know about, was a nice 3 yo 8 pt. I got one video of him passing my 3d deer target and cutting into fragmites/cattails that butts up to a backyard. Checked it out end of feb thinking it may be his bed, busted up a deer outta there and found a nice sized lone bed surrounded by frag pactically in someones backyard. The rubs in the immediate area lead me to believe it was his bed, but no sheds, numerous young ones caught on camera regularly, good number of bucks back there in general, yet no sheds. Really thought i would pick atleast one up back there
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So are you saying that there is no other legitimate reason for hunting than to provide meat for your family or friends?
Are you saying that guides and outfitters that provide opportunities for hunters to come and experience hunting in places such as Iowa, Colorado or Alaska are exploiting the game animals to make a living unless they verify that the hunter is in need of any meat harvested on the trip for his/her family?
If I enjoy hunting whitetails in other states because of the different methods I can use, the terrain that is different, or the different challenges that those deer provide, etc… UNLESS I need that meat that I obtain during a successful hunt, I am a “scumbag”.
These seem to follow your rationale, and if so, you are painting quite a few of your fellow hunters as scumbags. You are posting on this thread that you hate the idea of someone else forcing their idealogy on you and taking away choice, BUT you are determining the only acceptable choice for someone else shooting what they would like to shoot. Hope you think about that one for a minute or two.
Thats right big antlers bring big bucks, and i never said one cant do it, go for it kill your trophies, but i stand by the fact that if you hunt for a rack without needing the meat, you are indeed a scumbag, your killing for pure sport, and then complain that there arent enough big bucks. And im not determining anyones ability to shoot anything im saying if you made a conscious decision to only shoot what u need, u would see more antlered deer
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Eh, I'll take scumbag I have been called way worse. I only want a couple deer a year and everything else I give to elderly family, if that makes me a scumbag oh well.
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No problem with giving away excess as numbers arent a problem, antlers is the issue ( with some atleast)Im saying those who want more bucks should maybe think about only killing what they need, iv you got excess to give to family thats great, thats the real purpose of hunting, providing for your family in the most direct way possible, but dont be upset with less large antlered deer. The scumbag comment is more for the guys that filled buck tags here then gotta go to pa or nh to get the chance at another antlered deer even though they have all ready got the required meat for the year, and donate excess to charities. again no problem taking extras to feed your family, but if u want more antlered deer that certainly plays a role
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So here is the difference between your opinion and mine.
I am advocating that “natural” herd numbers, and the way that nature is designed, was done so WITHOUT man’s advances that affect the whole “ecosystem” you are describing. I am saying that our expansion into their ecosystem and the change to the amount of habitat they now have is not natural in many ways. We have taken a lot of their habitat, and changed much of it as well. Some for the good (agriculture) and some for the bad (housing and urban development). As hunters, we have expanded both our numbers (more people then were here when the native Americans were here alone) and in weapon range (guns are more efficient than bows and spears).
You are including hunters (remember you called us "critters", right???), in our current state and proficiency as described above, as a natural predator that somehow mother nature prepared for by evaluating our future potential as predators instead of what we were. You are diminishing the effect that our advances have made on both harvest numbers, harvest patterns (hunting for horns instead of just meat in some cases), and the impact on their environment. To suggest that we do not have the potential to impact the deer in their natural state (as initiated by nature), is what you seem to imply by including our current predator status as some sort of natural occurrence.
You are missing the entire point of QDM. Look at their mission – apart from what you think is all related to antler size and trophy hunters. Just take a minute and pretend that they really meant what they state in their mission statement. They are advocating a return to what NATURE saw fit to design for our deer herd. They imply that we as hunters, and by human influence other than hunting (expansion and other deer related influences) have had an effect on mother nature’s design for the deer herd. They are trying to return it to what it was before man played a big part in altering her design. They in no way are advocating some non-natural design to increase bucks and antler size above and beyond what the deer herd would be like without human interference.
For this reason, I think you are not interpreting what QDM is trying to accomplish. They don’t see nature as you do. You somehow see nature as something that stays natural after man influences it. I am not sure how you come to that conclusion. We have already reached some “crests” as you put it and we in some people’s opinion are having negative effects on mother nature’s herd design. QDM is advocating a return to her design, not move away from it as you suggest.
So to your point, how am I, or the QDMA “selfish” in their goals of returning nature to what she designed it to be? I can certainly argue that your desire to just let humans do what they want and let nature fend for itself is a lot more “selfish” point of view.
No I'm implying the natural forces at play are always attempting to regain balance, keyword attempting. And those forces are uncontrollable. Curious how does the qdma know what nature intended. Its not the quality ecosystem management association, its about keeping deer around for deer hunters however many that may be. This pretty much summed it up for me. from their homepage..
" we are hunters from all walks of life who share a passion for white-tailed deer. We believe it is our responsibility to ensure the future of white - tail deer, wildlife habitat and our heritage of hunting, as the authority on all things white-tail (oh jeez), we blend the art of hunting with the science science of management to create better deer and better deer hunting."
Notice there isnt a "as well as preserving a natural healthy ecosystem" preceding that sentence.
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In a natural world, with no regs, and we were indeed killing to feed ourselves we'd ultimately starve ourselves due to overharvesting, and hopefully the remaining would learn there lesson. Which brings up another point, how many of you have meat left at the end of the year, and how many are just scumbags who kill for a rack and donate excess meat, oh sure its for a good cause. If this is the case maybe your overharvesting, and thus not allowing more bucks, whether year old or button, too grow,
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I came across wooden stands on public made in the shape of hang ons, strapped to the tree, they looked well made too. Then i start to think, if i got enough stand sites thats probably a good deal, surely cheaper doing it like that if ya got the time and some basic carpentry skills. Though you'd probably have to do some assembly on site
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Defeats the purpose you'd think, makes me wonder how many make it to the next year
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Manic, so if you are fairly certain that nothing we as hunters do affects all of this, do you advocate just getting rid of all our bag limits and season dates and let everyone do whatever they want. After all, it will just all take care of itself any ways. If you’d like to keep some regulations, then why do you assume that it is important to regulate just so far to protect our deer herd, but it only matters to a point that you decide on?
BTW, I’m going to go elk hunting in NY this fall, cause they are still there right? We didn’t effect that population, did we? After that I will make sure that I get that bison tag for western PA again, one of these years I will get one I’m sure. I know my great, great, great, great, great uncle did back in the day.
See Growalot, I can be sarcastic as well!
Did I say we aren't included in the web? Let me put it simple..
Through natural selection, a balanced ecosystem is created in an environment friendly for all critters, including us (OMG did he just call us critters!)
Through qdm an unbalanced ecosystem is created in an environment friendly for deer, and deer hunters, thats it. I understand your reasoning, but its selfish in nature. The problem is so many are caught up in our manipulated, manufactured life, we've become detatched. While we understand how our actions can affect an ecosystem, we always fail to understand how the natural forces in the ecosystem effect us. That'll catch up to us, imo we're cresting over the falls as far as an ecosystem as a whole and we'll pay the price eventually. So honestly enjoy the gravy train while it lasts, sure employ AR get a big buck state here in new york, feeders mineral blocks, legalize them too, afterall its for the herd health right, but until you can get out of your selfish, shallow mindset, you will fail to see the big pictute
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With the rain I'll probably try and get out for some steel on lake O tribs when it comes down some
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Very nice speckling and color, nice fish.
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Look at the most basic food web illustrations, you'll see each thing effects the other, and sometimes multiple things effected by one, the basics dont include the large picture, but its apparent the DEER management crowd cant grasp a larger concept, so start with that.
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Doe to buck ratio....
https://www.qdma.com/reality-doebuck-ratios/
Qdma article , but there are quite a few others out there that show the same math..
Deer management, is just that managing DEER, theres all other critters out there and envirmental influences at play. Imo the proclaimed "high quality" deer hunting states are nothing more than free range deer farms, no wonder all the disease issues out there. All the management, feeders mineral blocks whatever, creates only a deer friendly enviroment that I'm sure would create an exiting deer hunting experience, but disrupts the natural balance of an ecosystem as a whole. Like it or not the forces that in effect balance an ecosystem, are ongoing and always at play and whatever manipulation you may try to produce the results you prefer, those natural forces will always be attempting to restore balance
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Curious how does an irrelavant example provide any evidence of whats really going on with the deer, afterall you stated yourself its irellavant. So how does a theoretic example, apply to actual numbers, and hows that any indication of whats happening and whats going to happen.
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Think I mentioned a few times that it wasn’t based on accurate numbers but only to show how the doe numbers can increase under our current harvest averages. It was never based on accurate herd numbers of any kind. It was based on harvest numbers provided by the DEC. Estimates. That is what I said. Did you even read it closely???
Simple math and understanding shows support for the example I provided. In addition, I even added the fact that there are other factors that are not included yet further support the increase. Never said it’s a true proportion for every area.
Your response says everything. You just can’t comprehend it. Or you don’t want to. Doesn’t matter, its irrelevant. I can’t help it if you can’t understand the theory, or the math.
Ok, thank you for stating that inaccurate math supports your example, therefore your " example" is irrelevant.
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2017 Shed Thread..
in General Hunting
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Opossum i bet, youd know if it were a skunk
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